From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 01:34:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:34:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating mailman to a new box
In-Reply-To: <447DEB2E.7020906@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200605311634330109b5ef048e@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:

>Below are the steps, not sure if this is a 
>good way of migrating mailman from current to new box?
>
>1) Move the entire contents of the archives/
>   lists/ and directories
>
>2) fix the host_name and web_page_url attributes of the list with 
>"withlist",
>"fix_url", and rebuild the archives with 'bin/arch --wipe'
>
>Not sure if we have to rebuild the archives if I'm already running 
>fix_url with withlist?


Yes. The steps are good, and you do want to rebuild the archives. Most
links in the archives are relative and not a problem, but there are
absolute links to scrubbed attachments and listinfo pages, and these
will have to be recreated to have the correct host. 'bin/arch --wipe'
will do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 01:53:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200605311653440843b5ef0777@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message (or 
>in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to strip 
>HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
>
>	Check your settings.  Have the user send you a message directly, 
>then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have to see all 
>the messy headers and MIME body structure.  If you don't have an MUA 
>that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.


Brad is correct, particularly about diagnosis. I just want to add a
couple of ideas.

If Mailman's content filtering removes ALL the MIME parts so none
remain, the post will be handled according to filter_action; it won't
go to the list. If content filtering is removing the body, there must
be some other part which may be blank but is not removed for the
result to go to the list.

Another possibility to consider is that the message may be an HTML or
other rich text format message which is reaching the list and which
has (for example) white text on a white background. If this is the
case, the "blank" message body may be sizable to the point that it has
a scroll bar, but still "blank". You may be able to select the "blank"
text, copy it and paste it into a plain text editor and see it that
way.

This latter situation comes about when someone has their own MUA set
for "rich text" with a default background color of say black and an
explicit font color of white. Then, when the white on black message is
viewed by someone whose MUA backgrownd color is white, she sees the
white on white "blank" message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 11:59:57 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:59:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List + Monthly Password Reminders = List
	Security Issue?
Message-ID: <FD27957F9C5F842B358C72CE@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

Can someone help me with this please?

We are using Mailman 2.1.8 under Sun Solaris 10 (SPARC).

We have a small number of umbrella lists, each with (only) other lists 
subscribed as their members.  A fictional example:

The umbrella list

    all-depts at lists.york.ac.uk

has members

    astronomy-dept at lists.york.ac.uk
    dentistry-dept at lists.york.ac.uk
    geography-dept at lists.york.ac.uk

The umbrella list is set up with:

    Send password reminders to, eg, "-owner" address instead of directly to
    user. (Details for umbrella_list)
                                                            YES

    Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, according
    to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting.  (Details for
    umbrella_member_suffix)
                                                            -owner

Posting through the umbrella and member lists is working fine.

However I've just found that the monthly password reminders for the 
umbrella lists have been sent out to the subscribed member-list addresses. 
I was instead expecting them to go to these list names suffixed "-owner" 
and hence to the member-lists' owners only.

This means that every person belonging to, say, astronomy-dept now knows 
the membership password used to subscribe it to the all-depts umbrella list!
:-(

The monthly reminders are sent out using the Mailman script 
cron/mailpasswds and executed from cron.

I'm not a Python programmer (yet) but can manage to read the stuff and, as 
far as I can see, there is NOTHING in cron/mailpasswds to spot umbrella 
lists and send their monthly reminder to

    memberlist-owner at lists.york.ac.uk

instead of the subscribed address

    memberlist at lists.york.ac.uk

All the documentation I've read and help pages I've managed to locate give 
no clue of this behaviour.  Instead they strongly imply that by setting the 
umbrella_list setting to YES that "password reminders" are sent to the 
list's owners by adding the specified suffix (typically "-owner") to each 
member's address.

I'm now wondering if this is actually referring only to the "Please remind 
me of my password" link, not the monthly reminder.  If so then a huge 
warning needs adding to the FAQ and documentation about umbrella lists 
advising admins NOT to turn on the monthly reminders for umbrella lists in 
order to avoid this big security issue.

Or am I missing something/have something misconfigured?

Cheers,
Mike Brudenell

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From timo.schoeler at riscworks.net  Thu Jun  1 14:06:32 2006
From: timo.schoeler at riscworks.net (Timo Schoeler)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:06:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with GID and postfix
Message-ID: <447ED848.9050508@riscworks.net>

hi list,

after hours of searching on the net (finding that the problem is not 
unknown, but not yielding a solution for me) and several rebuilds of 
mailman (mailman-2.1.8rc1, from NetBSD pkgsrc) i'm stuck.

as advised, i built mailman with --with-mail-gid=nobody (for postfix), 
but this leads me to following problem when trying to post to a newly 
created (the first, one and only on the machine) list:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

i figure that i need to tell postfix to run

/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman at riscworks.net

as nobody. can i force postfix to do this?

any hints greatly appreciated - thanks in advance,

-- 
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | timo.schoeler at riscworks.net
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
ISP | POWER & PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services
GPG Key fingerprint = C9CA 7A13 4250 44EF CC58  938F AE29 5465 6E09 3093

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't.


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Jun  1 15:02:15 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:02:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pruning archives
Message-ID: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>

Is this still the easiest way to prune archives?  Seems rather labor intensive...
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>

-- 
Anne Ramey




From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 16:05:39 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:05:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>

Hi.

I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
    from Defaults import *
ImportError: No module named Defaults


Well, Defaults.py, Defaults.pyo and Defaults.pyc are sitting right there in
the current directory.  I'm not a Python expert, perhaps that isn't what's
being looked for?

I'm running 2.1.5 under Debian Sarge, using Python 2.3.5.  Any other
information that can help figure this out, please ask.

I have resubscribed to the mailing list, so there's no need to copy me
personally on any answers.  (I think the old custom of summarizing for
mailing lists is finally dead, unfortunately.)  I did search the archive and
found no mention of this problem.

And I'll be very grateful for any assistance.
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From chris at westnet.com  Thu Jun  1 16:12:27 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
References: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0606011011580.5257@westnet.com>

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Carl Fink wrote:

> I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py

You don't run mm_cfg.py  You just edit it.

It contains values that are then read by the other programs when they run.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:35:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List + Monthly Password Reminders =
	ListSecurity Issue?
In-Reply-To: <FD27957F9C5F842B358C72CE@pippin.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010735210640a17330b5@msapiro>

Mike Brudenell wrote:
>
>All the documentation I've read and help pages I've managed to locate give 
>no clue of this behaviour.  Instead they strongly imply that by setting the 
>umbrella_list setting to YES that "password reminders" are sent to the 
>list's owners by adding the specified suffix (typically "-owner") to each 
>member's address.
>
>I'm now wondering if this is actually referring only to the "Please remind 
>me of my password" link, not the monthly reminder.  If so then a huge 
>warning needs adding to the FAQ and documentation about umbrella lists 
>advising admins NOT to turn on the monthly reminders for umbrella lists in 
>order to avoid this big security issue.
>
>Or am I missing something/have something misconfigured?


I think you are correct. I think cron/mailpasswds should be fixed. I
don't know how this has been ignored for so long.


In the mean time, I think the following (Warning - totally untested and
watch out for wrapped lines) patch will fix it.

--- mailpasswds 2006-04-15 17:38:24.000000000 -0700
+++ mailpasswdsx        2006-06-01 07:30:07.843750000 -0700
@@ -162,6 +162,8 @@
                 optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
                 lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
                 info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
+                if mlist.umbrella_list:
+                    member = mlist.GetMemberAdminEmail(member).lower()
                 userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
         # Now that we've collected user information for this host,
send each
         # user the password reminder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:42:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:42:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with GID and postfix
In-Reply-To: <447ED848.9050508@riscworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010742080937a17331d1@msapiro>

Timo Schoeler wrote:
>
>i figure that i need to tell postfix to run
>
>/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman at riscworks.net
>
>as nobody. can i force postfix to do this?


You have two choices. Postfix runs the pipe as the user:group that owns
the alias file that the pipe came from. You could change the group of
data/aliases* to nobody, but that with cause other problems with
automatic alias generation for Postfix (assuming you have set MTA =
'Postfix')

The better choice is to rerun configure with --with-mail-gid=mailman
and reinstall.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Jun  1 16:51:07 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2EB2@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

I have a mailing list set up to send monthly password reminders.

Today, two of these reminder messages ended up in the Administrative
requests for the list as being posted to the list from non-members.

Coincidentally, the subscriber's email addresses are
nameofproblematiclist at xyz.com.  Their email address usernames are the
same as the name of the problematic list sending out the password
reminders, but their complete email address is in another domain.  

I am running Mailman 2.1.8 on RHEL4 with Exim.

Any ideas? I suppose I could post headers if this is not clear.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:56:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:56:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010756540265a1732f5f@msapiro>

Carl Fink wrote:
>
>I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
>("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
>    from Defaults import *
>ImportError: No module named Defaults


As Christopher said in another reply, you don't run mm_cfg.py, you just
edit it. Mailman modules import it.

However, you may wish to run it just to "error check" it, and the above
should work, i.e.

cd $prefix/Mailman
python ./mm_cfg.py

should be able to import from Defaults, so I don't know what's
happening unless you have a base mm_cfg.py from some packager that
contains things I don't know about.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jun  1 17:30:34 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:30:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601083024.0610c1c0@crimson-dragon.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Carl Fink wrote:
> >
> >I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
> >("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
> >    from Defaults import *
> >ImportError: No module named Defaults
>
>
>As Christopher said in another reply, you don't run mm_cfg.py, you just
>edit it. Mailman modules import it.
>
>However, you may wish to run it just to "error check" it, and the above
>should work, i.e.
>
>cd $prefix/Mailman
>python ./mm_cfg.py
>
>should be able to import from Defaults, so I don't know what's
>happening unless you have a base mm_cfg.py from some packager that
>contains things I don't know about.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Yeah, that all seems a bit strange but if he can stop and 
successfully restart his qrunners, then the edits are syntactically 
correct and mailman can at least understand what is there. Whether 
those edits are then lexically and logically correct is another story 
altogether.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 17:34:45 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:34:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pruning archives
In-Reply-To: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>
References: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <024C4DCFAEDF6B48332D4EB7@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

--On 1 June 2006 09:02:15 -0400 Anne Ramey <anne.ramey at ncmail.net> wrote:

> Is this still the easiest way to prune archives?  Seems rather labor
> intensive...
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>

There are probably other utilities to do this task but the one that springs 
to my mind is "mailutil" from the University of Washington (UW) IMAP 
Utilities distribution.

mailutil was originally designed to create mail folders in particular 
storage formats, either locally or on a remote IMAP server.

However feeping creaturism added other facilities such as copying or moving 
messages between any combination of local and/or remote folders.

Amongst these is the "prune" option which lets you prune a mail folder 
based on a selection string.  The selection string itself is given in the 
format used by IMAP2's SEARCH command (RFC 117).  [I actually suspect it 
now supports IMAP4rev1's SEARCH command syntax (RFC 2060, section 6.4.4) 
... if this is indeed different.]

The example given in mailutil's man page is:

    mailutil prune INBOX "before 1-jan-2004"

Because mailutil is built using the UW C-Client library it understands a 
great many different mail folder storage formats, and can certainly be used 
on traditional UNIX/Berkeley/mbox formatted folders.

You can see the man page for mailutil (and the other IMAP utilities) at

    <http://www.washington.edu/pine/man/#mailutil>

Source code, and pre-built binaries for a number of platforms, for 
C-Client, Pine, the IMAP server and IMAP utilities can be found at:

    <http://www.washington.edu/pine/getpine/>

mailutil is in its imap/src/mail/utils directory.

Alternatively you can just get the IMAP server + C-Client source code at:

    <ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu:21//imap/imap.tar.Z>

If I'm right in thinking this deletes messages from mail folders then you 
might find it a very useful tool: its selection criteria are very flexible, 
enabling you to select messages by date, sender, recipient, size, 
read/unread status, etc

CAUTION:
    I have used mailutil to create mail folders and copy messages around,
    but haven't yet tried its "prune" option.  However I'm expecting it
    will work.

    If someone tries it perhaps they could report back to the list?

Cheers,
Mike B-)

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Jun  1 17:46:24 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
 subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2EB2@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <C0A459E0.CD56%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 7:51 AM, "Dewhirst, Rob" <dewey at ku.edu> wrote:

> I have a mailing list set up to send monthly password reminders.
> 
> Today, two of these reminder messages ended up in the Administrative
> requests for the list as being posted to the list from non-members.
> 
> Coincidentally, the subscriber's email addresses are
> nameofproblematiclist at xyz.com.  Their email address usernames are the
> same as the name of the problematic list sending out the password
> reminders, but their complete email address is in another domain.
> 
> I am running Mailman 2.1.8 on RHEL4 with Exim.
> 
> Any ideas? I suppose I could post headers if this is not clear.

Exim is seeing just the local part of the addresses when it processes
aliases.

I don't know how RedHat is packaging Mailman--assuming that's how you
installed Mailman.

I see that our installation would have the same problem, now that I look at
our Exim configuration on the Mailman machine:

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

In other words, if the local part of an address matches a list name, exim
will treat the address as something to send to the list.

Now that you've pointed out the problem, it would appear that the school
solution for Exim configuration for lists is flawed.  (And has worked at
many sites for many years.)

I think there should probably be something like
  domains = +mailman_domains
as a condition in the router.

Where that list would be defined in the early part of the configuration as
something like
  domainlist mailman_domains = mailman.example.com : lists.example.com
as needed (the above would be right for us were we example.com).  An Exim
macro could also be used, as was done with MAILMAN_HOME in the above.

The above is top-of-the-head, and untested.

I wonder whether the published solution ought to be changed.  Note that if
one is doing virtual domains--in the limited way Mailman does it now, it
would be better to fill the mailman_domains list by reading a file, which
could be managed by whatever software establishes lists in domains.

When Mailman begins allowing "real" virtual hosting, the Exim solution will
need to be changed, perhaps using a series of routers imported from a file
managed by the management software (Exim does handle import statements in
its configuration file--a feature which the stock Debian configuration for
Exim exercises heavily).




From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 18:14:30 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:14:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 08:30:34AM -0700, Dragon wrote:

> Yeah, that all seems a bit strange but if he can stop and 
> successfully restart his qrunners, then the edits are syntactically 
> correct and mailman can at least understand what is there. Whether 
> those edits are then lexically and logically correct is another story 
> altogether.

I actually did restart Mailman, with no errors, and so far it seems to have
taken my changes.  If mm_cfg is just there to be read from, why is it a
script instead of a text file /etc/mailman?
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun  1 18:18:04 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:18:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>

At 12:14 PM -0400 2006-06-01, Carl Fink wrote:

>  I actually did restart Mailman, with no errors, and so far it seems to have
>  taken my changes.  If mm_cfg is just there to be read from, why is it a
>  script instead of a text file /etc/mailman?

	Because with a text /etc/mailman.cf configuration file, you then 
have to write a program to parse that content and to deal with all 
possible exceptions.

	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 18:30:30 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:30:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
	<p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.

Fair enough.  Like I wrote, I'm no Python expert.

Thanks.
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Jun  1 19:19:37 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 9:30 AM, "Carl Fink" <carl at finknetwork.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python
>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent
>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
> 
> Fair enough.  

A downside is that there is no "proper" place for Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py

They are configuration, so they go into /etc somewhere.  They are
executable, so they DON'T go into /etc.  Not a problem with the stock
Mailman layout, but it does cause problems for one trying to match the file
system standard (such as the Red Hat packaging of Mailman, which shotguns
Mailman into several different places--and is well done).

  --John




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  1 19:41:39 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:41:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>	<p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
	<20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <447F26D3.6020005@yahoo.com>

Carl Fink wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> 	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
> 
> Fair enough.  Like I wrote, I'm no Python expert.

I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
many great apps that prove this.

-Jim P.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  1 19:47:14 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:47:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <447F2822.10909@yahoo.com>

John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 6/1/06 9:30 AM, "Carl Fink" <carl at finknetwork.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>
>>> When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python
>>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent
>>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
>> Fair enough.  
> 
> A downside is that there is no "proper" place for Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py
> 
> They are configuration, so they go into /etc somewhere.  They are
> executable, so they DON'T go into /etc.  Not a problem with the stock
> Mailman layout, but it does cause problems for one trying to match the file
> system standard (such as the Red Hat packaging of Mailman, which shotguns
> Mailman into several different places--and is well done).

I have custom Mailman installs (from source releases) on my systems. 
The way that I solve this problem, of desiring all configuration files 
to exist in /etc, is to hardlink /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py 
(and a few others) to a directory I created (/etc/mailman) on each 
system.  I do the same for MoinMoin (a Python wiki).  This way I can 
periodically backup etc and not have to worry about a large bloated 
backup of easily re-installed applications.

-Jim P.


From jesse at solidot.org  Thu Jun  1 20:43:09 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 02:43:09 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login button,
it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.
Please help.

Thanks!

Jesse


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jun  1 20:43:14 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Users Unable to Post
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060601134122.0291cd98@visi.com>

Hi:

I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with Mailman, and about 90 lists.  I have 
a few users, on various lists who are subscribed to a given list, who 
can reply to an existing message, but who can't post an original 
message.  they are then rejected as a non-member.  Any ideas?

David Andrews


David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Jun  1 21:19:16 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:19:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2F1B@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

> Exim is seeing just the local part of the addresses when it 
> processes aliases.

> I don't know how RedHat is packaging Mailman--assuming that's 
> how you installed Mailman.

I installed exim from rpm and built mailman from source.

> I think there should probably be something like
>   domains = +mailman_domains
> as a condition in the router.

I think that's the culprit -- 

These two docs differ on how to setup the Exim router

<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>

<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node21.html>

And they differ by the domains = definition you quote above.  The Exim
docs have it, the mailman docs don't.




From schaefer at alphanet.ch  Thu Jun  1 21:09:41 2006
From: schaefer at alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:09:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
Message-ID: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>

Hi,

I am running a Mailman from Debian stable (2.1.5-8sarge2), and I experimented
the following issue:

   - even if disabled in Defaults.py and not enabled in mm_cfg.py,
     VERP seems to be activated from time to time. I am guessing it is
     activated only when something already bounced on a user (?).
     Most mail sent out don't have the VERP (user=host+id) stuff at all
     as Sender:, and when they have something it's a cookie:

   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch

My questions:

   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?

   - how to disable VERP *completely * ?

In my case, VERP cannot work, because + is *not* used for multi-addresses
recipients. 

Excerpt from config:
   grep VERP mm_cfg.py /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py

   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
   VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
   VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No

Thank you for any ideas!

(otherwise thank you for Mailman, which I use since a few years on
lists.alphanet.ch)



From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Jun  1 22:10:06 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <447F26D3.6020005@yahoo.com> from Jim Popovitch at "Jun 1, 2006
	01:41:39 pm"
Message-ID: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
> programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
> I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
> is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
> many great apps that prove this.

In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at 
this point...   :-)

Of course, YMMV

z!


From secretary at healheadingley.org.uk  Thu Jun  1 23:02:23 2006
From: secretary at healheadingley.org.uk (Heal Secretary)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 22:02:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>

Hi Brad

Thank you for this.

The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; 
format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?

I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know 
if it is a MUA or not. Please could you explain this term. Also, the 
messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I 
don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?

In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert 
text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and 
see what happens.

Many thanks for your patience
Nigel

At 21:58 31/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>         This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message 
> (or in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to 
> strip HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
>
>         Check your settings.  Have the user send you a message 
> directly, then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have 
> to see all the messy headers and MIME body structure.  If you don't 
> have an MUA that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.
>

Secretary of Heal
Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community
www.healheadingley.org.uk  



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun  2 01:10:08 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:10:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <C0A4C1E0.CD9D%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 1:10 PM, "Carl Zwanzig" <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:

> In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level
> for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess
> it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at
> this point...   :-)
> 
> Of course, YMMV

And if braces for structure move into Python as a required thing (unlikely,
as long as the BDFL is around, and he's much younger than I am), I stop with
the version upgrades.

The clearly visible structure was one of the first things that attracted me.

As you say, YMMV.

  --John




From laff at massiveblack.com  Fri Jun  2 01:32:30 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:32:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking word bounces out of received emails......
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606010742080937a17331d1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>

...IS THERE AN EASY WAY TO DO THIS? 

When clients see the word bounces in the email it makes them nervous. 

Like:


HR-bounces at lalala.com

Help please.

We are running windows, is there any easy way to take this word out by using
the web interface?

thanks




From laff at massiveblack.com  Fri Jun  2 03:40:36 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:40:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why can't anyone post to mailing Lists
Message-ID: <20060602014046.833E71E4013@bag.python.org>

I want to use our mailing list more like a mail alias, I need it to be open
so anyone can mail to it without seeking approval from the moderator....does
anyone know how set this up?
 
thanks


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  2 04:37:25 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:37:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:

>  The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html;
>  format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?

	That's unlikely to be all that you need to know.

>  I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know
>  if it is a MUA or not.

	Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same 
program.  However, you need to look at more than just the headers -- 
you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something 
that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).

	Try saving a copy of the message to a file, then pull up that 
file in a text editor.

>                          Please could you explain this term. Also, the
>  messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I
>  don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?

	MIME is how Internet e-mail handles binary content.  However, 
although there are some official standards for MIME, very few 
programs actually implement all of those standards the same way.

	What you need to be able to see is the internal MIME structure of 
the message.

>  In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert
>  text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and
>  see what happens.

	That may not help.  Give it a try, but don't be surprised if it 
doesn't work.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  2 04:39:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking word bounces out of received emails......
In-Reply-To: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>
References: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200710c0a5554f30d9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 4:32 PM -0700 2006-06-01, The Lafferty wrote:

>  We are running windows, is there any easy way to take this word out by using
>  the web interface?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:28:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:28:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why can't anyone post to mailing Lists
In-Reply-To: <20060602014046.833E71E4013@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120280805629b2171fa@msapiro>

The Lafferty wrote:

>I want to use our mailing list more like a mail alias, I need it to be open
>so anyone can mail to it without seeking approval from the moderator....does
>anyone know how set this up?

In the admin interface Privacy options...->Sender filters set
generic_nonmember_action to accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:40:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:40:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120401109379b217374@msapiro>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
>In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
>for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
>it's ok when you get used to it.


The forced indentation is something there will probably never be even
close to universal agreement on - some love it, some hate it, very few
are neutral.

But why do you think you can't include blank lines?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:52:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:52:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>

J. Lee wrote:
>
>I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
>http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login button,
>it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
>I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.


If the refreshed page said "Authorization failed." in red at the top,
it is likely an incorrect password. If it truly just refreshed, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Fri Jun  2 06:00:23 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:00:23 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606012100n7336f1fbjd7059548589a152d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just found the problem, which was caused by Slash(www.slashcode.com, my
main site running it). When stopped Slash, my browser can receive cookies
from Mailman, everything works well. When slash start, mailman's cookie
doesn't work, I can't login to admin page.

Thanks for your reply.
Sorry for my English.

Jesse

On 6/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> J. Lee wrote:
> >
> >I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
> >http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login
> button,
> >it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
> >I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.
>
>
> If the refreshed page said "Authorization failed." in red at the top,
> it is likely an incorrect password. If it truly just refreshed, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jesse.solidot%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 06:06:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:06:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Users Unable to Post
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060601134122.0291cd98@visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060121064106569b217279@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:
>
>I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with Mailman, and about 90 lists.  I have 
>a few users, on various lists who are subscribed to a given list, who 
>can reply to an existing message, but who can't post an original 
>message.  they are then rejected as a non-member.  Any ideas?


There must be some difference in headers or envelope sender between a
reply and a new message in these cases.

Have the user(s) both send a new message to you rather than the list
and reply to a list message but re-address the reply to you. Then look
at headers in these messages. Look at From:, Return-Path: (which
reflects the envelope sender), Reply-To: and Sender: which are the
addresses used to determine list membership (assuming you haven't set
SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 06:56:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>

schaefer at alphanet.ch wrote:
>
>I am running a Mailman from Debian stable (2.1.5-8sarge2), and I experimented
>the following issue:
>
>   - even if disabled in Defaults.py and not enabled in mm_cfg.py,
>     VERP seems to be activated from time to time. I am guessing it is
>     activated only when something already bounced on a user (?).
>     Most mail sent out don't have the VERP (user=host+id) stuff at all
>     as Sender:, and when they have something it's a cookie:
>
>   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch



That's a VERP probe.


>My questions:
>
>   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
>     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
>     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?


No.


>   - how to disable VERP *completely * ?
>
>In my case, VERP cannot work, because + is *not* used for multi-addresses
>recipients. 
>
>Excerpt from config:
>   grep VERP mm_cfg.py /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py


mm_cfg.py should be in the same directory as Defaults.py unless this is
a Debian thing.

>
>   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
>   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
>   VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
>   VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No


You seem to have edited out quite a bit of the grep result :-)


You are running Mailman 2.1.5. VERP probes were introduced in 2.1.5 and
couldn't be turned off. This was recognized to be a mistake, so
beginning in 2.1.6 they are controlled by
VERP_PROBES which defaults to No.

In 2.1.5, you could effectively change the sender of the probe from

gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch

to

gull-annonces-bounces at lists.alphanet.ch

by changing VERP_PROBE_FORMAT, but this will break bounce processing
because in 2.1.5, disabling a bouncing user relies on receiving a
bounced probe with the token.

Your choices are:

Upgrade (maybe not easy/possible with a Debian package).

Complain to Debian.

Modify Mailman/Bouncer.py to either implement mm_cfg.VERP_PROBES or
just remove VERP probes all together. See
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py?r1=7147&r2=7190>


Turn off bounce processing for the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From schaefer at alphanet.ch  Fri Jun  2 08:51:14 2006
From: schaefer at alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:51:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>
References: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>
	<PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060602065114.GA8915@alphanet.ch>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:56:06PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch
> 
> That's a VERP probe.

ok.

> >   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
> >     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
> >     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?
> 
> 
> No.

Could be handy :)

> mm_cfg.py should be in the same directory as Defaults.py unless this is
> a Debian thing.

schaefer at shakotay:~$ ls -la /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/{mm_cfg.py,Defaults.py}
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 54457 Mar 29 21:58 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root    22 May  3 09:19 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py -> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py

they are, but the local admin configurable part is really stored in
/etc/mailman, as per standard policy. Modifying stuff in the system is
not really Debian's cup of tea, which has its reasons.

> You seem to have edited out quite a bit of the grep result :-)

yep.

> Your choices are:

I will simply configure the probes to use the `=' character, which is
the equivalent of `+' here.  As long as the probes are sent in this
hexadecimal format (and not in the user=host.ch format) it should work.

Am I right that the probes are always sent in the hexadecimal format,
and thus that the variables to set in mm_cfg.py are:

   VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s=%(token)s'
   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

I shall assume that for everything else as probes, the bug doesn't exist
and no probes will be sent as long as the config is set to 0 or No.

If you confirm the above, I will report this as a Debian bug, so that
the maintainer knows about this and less people complain for this issue.

Thank you for your useful help, indeed!



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 16:45:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 07:45:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <20060602065114.GA8915@alphanet.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060207454807183ba30e7e@Notebook>

Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:56:06PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
>> >     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
>> >     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?
>> 
>> 
>> No.
>
>Could be handy :)


I was thinking the same thing. Here is a very rough first cut, proof of
concept script. Watch out for wrapped lines. You may have to change
the #! python command. The script needs to be stored in the bin/
directory with the other command line scripts in order to find the
paths.py module it imports.

It will grow a --help option and at a minimum, an option to specify a
pattern and print only those names that match the pattern (although
with the primitive script below, you can always pipe it into grep).

cut----------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python
#
# Copyright (C) 2006 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
02110-1301,
# USA.

"""A simple script to display the public mm_cfg variables
for checking a configuration.
"""

import paths

from Mailman import mm_cfg

names = mm_cfg.__dict__.keys()
names.sort()
for name in names:
    if not name.startswith('_'):
        print name, '=', mm_cfg.__dict__[name]
cut----------------------------------------------------



>I will simply configure the probes to use the `=' character, which is
>the equivalent of `+' here.  As long as the probes are sent in this
>hexadecimal format (and not in the user=host.ch format) it should work.
>
>Am I right that the probes are always sent in the hexadecimal format,
>and thus that the variables to set in mm_cfg.py are:
>
>   VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s=%(token)s'
>   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'
>
>I shall assume that for everything else as probes, the bug doesn't exist
>and no probes will be sent as long as the config is set to 0 or No.


The above is almost correct. In Mailman 2.1.5, you can turn off
everything but the VERP probes in mm_cfg.py. Then the above changes
will replace '+' with '=' except it should be

   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^=]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

And yes, the probe token is always a hex confirmation string, not the
user=host address format.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Fri Jun  2 16:15:40 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:15:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests -  How did they do this?
Message-ID: <4480480C.8040701@washburn.edu>

Below is an example of a digest from a list and I would like to be able 
to do the same style on my digests in my Mailman.  I like how it lists 
the topics and then lists each message accordingly, like Message 2 for 
example. I am running Mailman 2.1.7 and at this point have not done any 
customization at this point.  I didn't know how to search for something 
like this in the archives either.  Any advice?


Thanks,
Jewel Makda
______________________________________________________________________

 





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 17:32:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:32:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests -  How did they do this?
In-Reply-To: <4480480C.8040701@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060208325108128dcfb63f@Notebook>

Jewel wrote
>
>Below is an example of a digest from a list and I would like to be able 
>to do the same style on my digests in my Mailman.  I like how it lists 
>the topics and then lists each message accordingly, like Message 2 for 
>example. I am running Mailman 2.1.7 and at this point have not done any 
>customization at this point.  I didn't know how to search for something 
>like this in the archives either.  Any advice?


Whatever you attached to this mail was removed by content filtering I'm
not sure from your description what digest format this is, but Mailman
sends digests in one of two formats by user option.

The 'plain' digest is one long plain text message with digest boiler
plate, table of contents and the individual messages, each flattened
to plain text with attachments scrubbed.

The 'MIME' digest consists of multiple MIME parts with separate parts
for the boiler plate and TOC and each message in it's own
message/rfc822 part.

What each format actually looks like depends on your MUA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jun  2 17:53:27 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:53:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060602084909.06170198@crimson-dragon.com>

Brad Knowles sent the message below at 19:37 6/1/2006:
>At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:
>
> >  I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know
> >  if it is a MUA or not.
>
>         Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same
>program.  However, you need to look at more than just the headers --
>you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something
>that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I use Eudora too, as far as I know, it doesn't allow you to do that. 
However, the .mbx files that Eudora uses are a slightly modified mbox 
format and can be viewed easily with a text editor.

The easiest way to do this is to create a new mailbox in Eudora, 
transfer the message to that mailbox and then open it in a text editor.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Fri Jun  2 19:45:06 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:45:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
Message-ID: <44807922.3080404@cloudshield.com>

Hi;

  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
each time.

  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
changes to take effect?

  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.

  I looked at the FAQ and spent some time in the email archives and 
looked at the manual and even looked at python code -- still mystified.

  Perhaps I have missed an obvious section of the manual, or the FAQ or 
an email in the archive that discusses/resolves this situation.  If so, 
please point me to it.

  Is this a bug that is resolved in more recent versions of Mailman?

  The user is a virtual user.  The Mailman application has been 
successfully used at this site regarding a previous (and still existing) 
virtual user who was in the posters variable in the config file, but was 
not a subscriber.  I wanted to add a new virtual user.

  Mailman version 2.0.13 on Linux

Thanks,
Kenneth A. Wolcott
kwolcott at cloudshield.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 21:18:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:18:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
	but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <44807922.3080404@cloudshield.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>

Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>
>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>each time.


Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
file?


>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>changes to take effect?


You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
the config.db each time the list is accessed.


>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.


This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
address you are subscribing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Fri Jun  2 21:59:16 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:59:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
References: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
Message-ID: <44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>   
>>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>> specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>> each time.
>>     
>
>
> Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
> some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
> file?
>   

  No.  I modified the config file directly.  I hadn't looked in the 
Private section from the web interface previously.  I recently started 
using the master password since no one could remember what the regular 
mailman admin password was.  Prior to using the master password, I 
didn't have access to the web interface and I was trying to do 
everything as root from the command line.  I just now added the email 
address via the web interface in the Private section.
>
>   
>>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>> changes to take effect?
>>     
>
>
> You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
> the config.db each time the list is accessed.
>
>   
Cool.
>   
>>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>> messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.
>>     
>
>
> This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
> the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
> address you are subscribing.
>
>   
I think that the modification of the poster field via the web interface 
will solve the problem.  I'll find out the next time the email (once 
daily) gets generated whether or not it gets posted automatically or 
not.  If this doesn't work then I'll look into the (subtle) differences 
in the email headers.

Thanks so much for your reply,
Ken Wolcott
kwolcott at cloudshield.com




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 00:13:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:13:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2F1B@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606021513590140e0dc2b07@msapiro>

Dewhirst, Rob wrote:
>
>These two docs differ on how to setup the Exim router
>
><http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>
>
><http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node21.html>
>
>And they differ by the domains = definition you quote above.  The Exim
>docs have it, the mailman docs don't.

They also differ in the local_part_suffix list. Here too, the Exim docs
have the correct list; the one in the Mailman manual is incomplete.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 00:38:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:38:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
In-Reply-To: <dff375270605260947p61acb606y4764a017b54dc4e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606021538020484eb0df006@msapiro>

kristina clair wrote:
>
>Thanks so much!  I discovered that messages that are using one
>character set (charset="windows-1251") are appearing correctly and
>messages that are using another character set (charset=iso-8859-1) are
>not appearing correctly.
>
>Is the only fix for this for the list members to use the character set
>which is appearing correctly after mailman processing?

Sorry for not answering sooner. This one got buried in my inbox.

Those users who are sending charset=iso-8859-1 need to do something
different in their MTAs or with the setup of their computers. The
iso-8859-1 character set is also known as Latin-1 or western. It does
not contain encodings for cyrillic characters. The ISO character set
with cyrillic characters is iso-8859-5. Windows-1251 is also a
cyrillic character set.

See for example <http://czyborra.com/charsets/iso8859.html> for
descriptions of the various iso-8859 character sets and
<http://czyborra.com/charsets/cyrillic.html> for various cyrillic
character sets.

Apparently your problem users are using a cyrillic setting on their
computers so that they type and see cyrillic characters on their
displays, but their MUA's are mis-identifying this as iso-8859-1. This
is basically a setup issue on the sender's computers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From laff at massiveblack.com  Sat Jun  3 00:39:28 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] As list administrator,
	your authorization is requested for the following mailing list
	posting:
Message-ID: <20060602223935.8CAC11E400D@bag.python.org>

I'm still getting these messages even though:

in Privacy options>Sender filters>
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
defined is checked off as Accepted.

 

Also, even members posts are held for approval.

 

Help please.

 

thanks

 

Mailman version 2.1.7



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 02:07:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 17:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] As list administrator,
	your authorization is requested for the following mailing
	listposting:
In-Reply-To: <20060602223935.8CAC11E400D@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060602170738056221d74d38@msapiro>

The Lafferty wrote:

>I'm still getting these messages even though:
>
>in Privacy options>Sender filters>
>Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
>defined is checked off as Accepted.
>
> 
>
>Also, even members posts are held for approval.


What is the reason why the posts are held? The reason is in the notice
to the moderator and in the admindb interface and in Mailman's vette
log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Sat Jun  3 06:37:33 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 12:37:33 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which template
file to change.
any help?

Thanks!


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 06:51:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 21:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>

J. Lee wrote:
>
>I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
>http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which template
>file to change.
>any help?


The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is built on
the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From axel at essbaum.com  Sat Jun  3 16:27:42 2006
From: axel at essbaum.com (Axel Essbaum)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:27:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replace attachment with text
Message-ID: <6a0579af0606030727q2bf8ebe8y3558ebee8746fa6f@mail.gmail.com>

I am running a Mailman 2.1.7 mailing list and stripping attachments
using the default content type and filename extension settings (the
only change I made from default was to set 'Should Mailman filter...'
to Yes).

Is it possible for me to replace attachments with a simple message
stating that the attachment was stripped?

I am trying to avoid the situation where a user sends a message with
an attachment, the attachment is stripped and the remaining text is
posted, and the sender thinks they forgot to include the attachment
and so they post again (and again...) trying to make their attachment
get through.

Thanks!

-- 
Axel Essbaum
axel at essbaum.com


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 17:04:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:04:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replace attachment with text
In-Reply-To: <6a0579af0606030727q2bf8ebe8y3558ebee8746fa6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060603080450075070936240@msapiro>

Axel Essbaum wrote:

>I am running a Mailman 2.1.7 mailing list and stripping attachments
>using the default content type and filename extension settings (the
>only change I made from default was to set 'Should Mailman filter...'
>to Yes).
>
>Is it possible for me to replace attachments with a simple message
>stating that the attachment was stripped?


There is no setting to do this. You would have to modify
Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py.

If you don't care if attachments are discarded or not, instead of
filtering content, you could turn on scrub_nondigest which will cause
non-text/plain attachments to be stored aside and replaced by URLs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Sat Jun  3 20:45:40 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 02:45:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606031145k4cdb87bbr84f1ba891a2cb133@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I am looking into it.

On 6/3/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> J. Lee wrote:
> >
> >I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
> >http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which
> template
> >file to change.
> >any help?
>
>
> The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is built on
> the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From tech at candledark.net  Sat Jun  3 21:56:30 2006
From: tech at candledark.net (Thomas)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:56:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with an install
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060603195605.DC0FA4FC20@buc3.barbourville.com>

I need someone familiar with Mailman and Ensim/virtual domains to get an
install working right. I've got it installed and parts work, parts don't.
I've hammered at it for as long as I care too, and I've reached the limit of
my abilities. It's probably a simple fix but I'm just not seeing it, so I'm
ready to hire someone to fight it for me. Anyone willing to take a crack at
it let me know and we'll work out a deal.

Thomas



From webmaster at godogsomaha.org  Sun Jun  4 01:24:57 2006
From: webmaster at godogsomaha.org (Webmaster)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:24:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced messages?
Message-ID: <7105474B-FA6C-4C27-8F2A-AD5F7336F12D@godogsomaha.org>

Is there a way to see what messages bounce? I would find it helpful  
to keep a mailing list up to date to know which messages don't get  
through.

-------------------------------------------------------
Steven Weyhrich <IX0YE>--<
Go Dogs! Webmaster
http://www.GoDogsOmaha.org




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  4 01:44:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:44:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <7105474B-FA6C-4C27-8F2A-AD5F7336F12D@godogsomaha.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060316445609376cbf9ee1@msapiro>

Webmaster wrote:

>Is there a way to see what messages bounce? I would find it helpful  
>to keep a mailing list up to date to know which messages don't get  
>through.


If Bounce processing is on, bounces are logged in Mailman's bounce log.
In addition, you can turn on the various notifications to have
unrecognized bounces and/or a copy of the bounce that causes a
member's delivery to be disabled forwarded to the list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  4 07:41:15 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 01:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
Message-ID: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>

I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the 
main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching 
performance with htdig.  Is this possible?

-Jim P.


From todd at simplyjew.com  Sun Jun  4 18:19:53 2006
From: todd at simplyjew.com (todd at simplyjew.com)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 12:19:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show senders address
Message-ID: <20060604121953.v97rdwi1ycw0owcs@70.98.111.60>

Hi. I am trying to set my list up so that the senders address appears
in the header. Ideally, the list users should see who sent the email.
The reply should still direct the message back to the list, but like I
said, the user can see who sent the message as well. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks, Todd


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  4 19:02:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 10:02:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show senders address
In-Reply-To: <20060604121953.v97rdwi1ycw0owcs@70.98.111.60>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041002050406562213fb@msapiro>

todd at simplyjew.com wrote:

>Hi. I am trying to set my list up so that the senders address appears
>in the header. Ideally, the list users should see who sent the email.
>The reply should still direct the message back to the list, but like I
>said, the user can see who sent the message as well. Any help would be
>appreciated. Thanks, Todd


On the list's General Options page, as long as anonymous_list is No,
the sender will be in the From: header.

If you want simple reply to go only to the list, see the
first_strip_reply_to and reply_goes_to_list options on the same page.
Read and consider the information at the "(Details for
reply_goes_to_list)" link.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 00:04:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:04:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041504030187b184529e@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the 
>main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching 
>performance with htdig.  Is this possible?


You have basically two issues. One is getting the archived messages
onto the other host, and the other is accessing them.

To get messages archived on (call it) archives.example.com, you could
have Mailman installed and running there. Then, for each list, you
could have the active version, say list at lists.example.com be your
normal list with the addition of list at archives.example.com as a member
and archiving turned off. Then you set up list at archives.example.com
with list-bounces at lists.example.com as the only member (with delivery
and password reminders disabled, to accept the relayed posts) and with
the archive settings you want.

There are probably other ways to do this using external archiver
settings on lists.example.com or by having archives on both hosts and
using rsync to update the archives host, but the above seems simple
enough.

Assuming you're doing the first method, you probably want to set
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 in mm_cfg.py on lists.example.com so the archiver
doesn't do any archiving at all. Then you can put your own pages in
archives/private/<listname>/index.html on lists.example.com. These
pages could redirect to the corresponding archive on
archives.example.com. Also, for public archives, you could set
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py on lists.example.com to point to
archives.example.com.

I haven't thought about this a lot. There may be other (better) ways.
See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp>
for some additional info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Mon Jun  5 01:41:24 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 00:41:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
References: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>


On 4 Jun 2006, at 06:41, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host  
> then the
> main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching
> performance with htdig.  Is this possible?
>
> -Jim P.

How you approach this depends on what you perceive your problem to be  
and what you mean by "better archive searching performance with htdig".

Like Google and other internet search engines, htdig splits the task  
into two parts: index construction and index search.

Index construction does the heavy lifting of scanning the source  
material and squirreling away in its indices a lot of detail of which  
indexed source files contain what. This can be quite a slow process  
especially when a large body of material has to be initially scanned  
and indexed. It is probably best treated as a batch process run a  
times of light load from other work on the system doing it. Depending  
on the material concerned and how you configure htdig this indexing  
may produce very large indices which can come close to being in the  
same order of magnitude of storage size as the raw source material.  
Many lists with large indices can generate demand for much CPU and  
potentially much storage during indexing (and after in the case of  
storage).

On the other hand index searching to produce a list of source files  
that match the search criteria induces a much lower load on the  
system concerned; after all it is just looking up words in pre-built  
search indices.

The problem with this approach is that search indices are never  
completely up-to-the-minute; but consider how often does Google's  
crawler visit your web site. While updating search indices when new  
documents are added to the archive material should be less load- 
inducing than the original construction of the indices, configuring  
cron jobs so that htdig rebuilds it indices too frequently is not  
advisable. The updating of indices can still involve a lot of IO as  
htdig walks a lot of files to determine which of the existing  
material has been changed as well as what has been added as new.

So first you should define what problem you are trying to solve as  
regards to using htdig before deciding what to do next.

You could plan on having your HTML mail archives integrated with  
Mailman e.g. using pipermail or a pipermail/MHonArc synthesis for the  
archive pages and having htdig integrated with that; I know you are  
aware of the patches available to support this approach and that  
there are some benefits as regard archive privacy being maintained  
and such. I will deal with this integrated approach first. You could  
deploy multiple processors to address the issues by using NFS to  
share the mailman archive storage space between them.

Paranthetically, I successfully ran Mailman on x86 Linux boxes  
entirely out of NFS mounted storage on enterprise level servers for a  
number years, primarily to provide for rapid-ish switchover to a  
backup server in the case of primary Mailman server hardware failure,  
which happened on several occasions. At the time I found that I had  
to limit NFS read/write transfer sizes on the Linux boxes to avoid  
problems in the Linux kernel locking associated with the NFS  
implementation then available. Nowadays I am running Mailman on  
Solaris 10 which has no such problems but I guess the Linux' NFS  
implementation has also improved in the meantime.

The simplest split you could consider is moving the htdig  
installation and workload to a separate machine. The Mailman/htdig  
integration patches support this configuration in conjunction with  
NFS sharing of the Mailman archives files if you look at the  
documentation here:

http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html#rconfig

This configuration leaves one machine running Mailman and being  
responsible for providing access to archive material while a second  
machine does htdig's index maintenance. Mailman also "subcontracts"  
each index search requested by a user to the htdig machine but the  
URLs returned in the search results mean that the Mailman machines  
delivers the material from the archives, not the htdig machine.

The question you asked was how to move the pipermail archives to  
another system. Using NFS again, it might be possible to run some of  
Mailman's qrunners on one machine and others (for example, the  
archive runner) on a second to partition things but I have never had  
the time or energy to set up systems to explore the issues of such a  
configuration but somebody else may have pushed the envelope this  
way. As an aside, I would avoid like the plague NFS cross-mounting of  
volumes between machines in any configuration.

If you decide none of the above is appropriate to what you want to  
achieve and the way you want to achieve it then you may be asking the  
wrong question in my view. Maybe you should deploying a mailing list  
archiving system independent of Mailman and you could do worse than  
look at the model set by http://www.mail-archive.com, as a starting  
point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  5 03:22:00 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:22:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>
References: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
	<B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <44838738.1090105@yahoo.com>

Wow! thank you Richard.  Apologies for the top post, but I didn't quite 
know where to jump-in on your comments, and I didn't want to truncate 
any of them either.   Thank you for the detailed info.

My issue is that the Mailman host is quite busy processing in/outbound 
email and providing Mailman web access to listinfo, admin, options, etc. 
(via Apache)  When rundig (via nightly_htdig) runs it consumes almost 
all the host CPU resources (5min loadavg hovers at 11% for 5+ hours). 
This has an adverse affect on response times for Apache and the MTA due 
to file system issues (multiple drives and partitions, but in the end 
still just IDE)

My issue isn't so much that I need to move pipermail or the archives to 
a different host but rather just the indexing of them.  I like your 
mailman+htdig integration for pw protected lists, so splitting Mailman 
up from the archives would probably break that or at least make it 
difficult.

Additionally I would like to run nightly_htdig in a continuous loop on 
the second host, constantly cycling through lists and re-digging each as 
needed.

I know how to tweak htdig.conf so that indexing on one host can return 
htsearch results for another.  I know that NFS could help out, but I'm 
forever concerned about NFS security and network issues because I lease 
external hosts from multiple providers and their will always be wan 
issues between them.

What I am thinking of doing (based on your's and Mark's comments) is to 
rsync archive/private/* to a second host and run nightly_htdig on that 
system.  I can then use Apache config to redirect the htsearch queries 
to the second host, and have the results returned point back at the 
primary Mailman host.  I *think* this will work, but need to test.

-Jim P.

Richard Barrett wrote:
> 
> On 4 Jun 2006, at 06:41, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the
>> main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching
>> performance with htdig.  Is this possible?
>>
>> -Jim P.
> 
> How you approach this depends on what you perceive your problem to be 
> and what you mean by "better archive searching performance with htdig".
> 
> Like Google and other internet search engines, htdig splits the task 
> into two parts: index construction and index search.
> 
> Index construction does the heavy lifting of scanning the source 
> material and squirreling away in its indices a lot of detail of which 
> indexed source files contain what. This can be quite a slow process 
> especially when a large body of material has to be initially scanned and 
> indexed. It is probably best treated as a batch process run a times of 
> light load from other work on the system doing it. Depending on the 
> material concerned and how you configure htdig this indexing may produce 
> very large indices which can come close to being in the same order of 
> magnitude of storage size as the raw source material. Many lists with 
> large indices can generate demand for much CPU and potentially much 
> storage during indexing (and after in the case of storage).
> 
> On the other hand index searching to produce a list of source files that 
> match the search criteria induces a much lower load on the system 
> concerned; after all it is just looking up words in pre-built search 
> indices.
> 
> The problem with this approach is that search indices are never 
> completely up-to-the-minute; but consider how often does Google's 
> crawler visit your web site. While updating search indices when new 
> documents are added to the archive material should be less load-inducing 
> than the original construction of the indices, configuring cron jobs so 
> that htdig rebuilds it indices too frequently is not advisable. The 
> updating of indices can still involve a lot of IO as htdig walks a lot 
> of files to determine which of the existing material has been changed as 
> well as what has been added as new.
> 
> So first you should define what problem you are trying to solve as 
> regards to using htdig before deciding what to do next.
> 
> You could plan on having your HTML mail archives integrated with Mailman 
> e.g. using pipermail or a pipermail/MHonArc synthesis for the archive 
> pages and having htdig integrated with that; I know you are aware of the 
> patches available to support this approach and that there are some 
> benefits as regard archive privacy being maintained and such. I will 
> deal with this integrated approach first. You could deploy multiple 
> processors to address the issues by using NFS to share the mailman 
> archive storage space between them.
> 
> Paranthetically, I successfully ran Mailman on x86 Linux boxes entirely 
> out of NFS mounted storage on enterprise level servers for a number 
> years, primarily to provide for rapid-ish switchover to a backup server 
> in the case of primary Mailman server hardware failure, which happened 
> on several occasions. At the time I found that I had to limit NFS 
> read/write transfer sizes on the Linux boxes to avoid problems in the 
> Linux kernel locking associated with the NFS implementation then 
> available. Nowadays I am running Mailman on Solaris 10 which has no such 
> problems but I guess the Linux' NFS implementation has also improved in 
> the meantime.
> 
> The simplest split you could consider is moving the htdig installation 
> and workload to a separate machine. The Mailman/htdig integration 
> patches support this configuration in conjunction with NFS sharing of 
> the Mailman archives files if you look at the documentation here:
> 
> http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html#rconfig
> 
> This configuration leaves one machine running Mailman and being 
> responsible for providing access to archive material while a second 
> machine does htdig's index maintenance. Mailman also "subcontracts" each 
> index search requested by a user to the htdig machine but the URLs 
> returned in the search results mean that the Mailman machines delivers 
> the material from the archives, not the htdig machine.
> 
> The question you asked was how to move the pipermail archives to another 
> system. Using NFS again, it might be possible to run some of Mailman's 
> qrunners on one machine and others (for example, the archive runner) on 
> a second to partition things but I have never had the time or energy to 
> set up systems to explore the issues of such a configuration but 
> somebody else may have pushed the envelope this way. As an aside, I 
> would avoid like the plague NFS cross-mounting of volumes between 
> machines in any configuration.
> 
> If you decide none of the above is appropriate to what you want to 
> achieve and the way you want to achieve it then you may be asking the 
> wrong question in my view. Maybe you should deploying a mailing list 
> archiving system independent of Mailman and you could do worse than look 
> at the model set by http://www.mail-archive.com, as a starting point.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk
> 
> 
> 


From ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net  Mon Jun  5 03:32:22 2006
From: ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
Message-ID: <20060604183222.bdd34f80.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>

Using this URL for a list in pipermail:

http://chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/makebelieve/

...I get a 404.  My archives are going *somewhere*, I just don't know
where - can somebody point me to where they live?

Noting that I'm running Debian 3.1.

-Dennis Carr


From jebva at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  5 10:44:19 2006
From: jebva at yahoo.com (7D)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 01:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
Message-ID: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do something.  Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  ANYWAY...  Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.
   
  Thanks,
  Alan

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 04:15:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:15:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
In-Reply-To: <20060604183222.bdd34f80.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041915310671b90c901e@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>Using this URL for a list in pipermail:
>
>http://chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/makebelieve/
>
>...I get a 404.  My archives are going *somewhere*, I just don't know
>where - can somebody point me to where they live?


Your actual archives are in archives/private/* within the Mailman
hierarchy. Public archives have symlinks in archives/public/*. You
should have something like

Alias   /pipermail/     /path/to/archives/public/

in your httpd.conf and maybe

<Directory "/path/to/archives/public">
    Options +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

if that isn't already implied elsewhere. See
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 16:03:12 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:03:12 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051501340.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

We're new to mailman, which we are testing on our own departmental staff
list prior to wider roll-out at the univeristy.

System:
   Fedora Core 5
   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)


On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;
2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
   expansion;
3. Instead of:
      From: a.n.other at our.site
      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
   we see just:
      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
   unusual at all.
6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.


We're stumped.

(When we tried re-sending a failed email, including in it a "Bcc:"
directly to me but still through the Mailman machine, it worked.)

A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?

Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
mails to the list, not just some of them.

Any ideas?

-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 16:05:52 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:05:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:44 AM -0700 2006-06-05, 7D wrote:

>  So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up
>  for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to
>  put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I
>  am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do
>  something.  Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions
>  of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer
>  by now.

	Looking at the Mailman listinfo page at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>, it says that the 
Mailman-developers list is for "GNU Mailman developers", and the 
Mailman-users list is for "Mailman mailing list management users".

	If you go to the list-specific information page for 
mailman-developers, the top two paragraphs are:

		This list is for discussion of the Mailman mailing list
		management system. It is open to people interested in
		improving the usability of the system, including end
		users as well as mailing list managers and development
		coders.

		There is a separate mailing list for people interested
		in discussion regarding configuring and using the
		system - mailman-users.

	In the list=specific information page for mailman-users, it says:

		This mailing list is for users and other parties interested
		in the Mailman mailing list management system. There is a
		separate mailing list for people interested in discussion
		about development of the system - mailman-developers.


	Are you asking a question that relates to development on Mailman? 
If so, then the Mailman-developers list might be the appropriate 
place to ask that.  Otherwise, mailman-users is a better place to go.


	If you have any specific recommendations regarding how we can 
improve the wording of the one-line description and the list-specific 
information text, please let us know.



	My take on your question is that it is operational in nature, and 
you have not developed any Python code to address this issue, nor do 
you have specific Python code that you would like to discuss 
regarding this matter.  If I'm wrong, please let me know.

	Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for your problem.  I 
suspect that you may be able to edit one of the list templates to 
obtain the desired result, but it might also be the case that the 
text you're looking at is generated internally to one of the Python 
routines within Mailman, and therefore you would need to make a minor 
modification to the source code.

	I would encourage you to search the FAQ Wizard and the list 
archives for "template", as well as some of the key words/phrases 
you're looking to remove, and see what turns up.


	Either way, mailman-users is almost certainly a more appropriate 
place to ask this question than mailman-developers.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 16:17:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060507170102341e7a14eb@msapiro>

7D wrote:

>So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do something.


Brad has addressed this in another reply.


>Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  


And if you'd looked in the FAQ first, you might too.


>ANYWAY...  Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.
The particular templates you want are unsub.txt and verify.txt. You
can make list specific, domain specific or sitewide, edited versions
of these per the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 16:15:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:15:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <p06200705c0a9ec89f109@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:05 AM -0500 2006-06-05, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  	I would encourage you to search the FAQ Wizard and the list
>  archives for "template", as well as some of the key words/phrases
>  you're looking to remove, and see what turns up.

	It turns out that a trivially simple search of the Mailman-users 
archives (following the instructions at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>) 
turns up the answer.  Search for "template" and "confirmation".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 16:49:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:49:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051501340.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>

David Lee wrote:
>
>System:
>   Fedora Core 5
>   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
>   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)
>
>
>On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
>failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
>1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;


What is in Mailman's 'smtp', 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs?
Specifically, are there any bounces recorded in the bounce log, (Is
bounce processing turned on for the list?) and how many recipients are
indicated in the smtp log entry?


>2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
>   expansion;


Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.


>3. Instead of:
>      From: a.n.other at our.site
>      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>   we see just:
>      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).


Are these the actual headers in the raw message or just what an MUA
shows? If the latter, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
If the former, I suspect Exchange.


>4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
>   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".


If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)


>5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
>   unusual at all.


See item 1 above - what is the number of recipiients in the smtp log
entry?


>6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
>   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
>   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
>   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.


That is a raw rendering of a quoted-printable encoding. If you are
looking at a raw mesage and it has a "Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable" header, this is normal. Otherwise, the encoding is
getting lost somewhere. It's possible, but unlikely that Mailman did
it. Bugs in this area should be fixed in 2.1.8.


>A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
>Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
>Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?


Exchange can screw up anything, but once the message gets to Mailman,
if it is sent at all, it should be sent to all eligible members. Are
all 89 members non-digest and delivery enabled?

Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)

>Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
>the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
>cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
>really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
>mails to the list, not just some of them.


If this is an issue, it would only affect the one user unless sendmail
doesn't like it somehow and drops it and either all preceeding or
following RCPT addresses in that transaction.

I just reread the initial 'fails sometimes' part which I sort of
ignored. This is more puzzling, but most of what I ask above is still
relevant. Could there be some kind of anti-spam content filtering
affecting only the 30 missing? Are the failures from different posters
than the successes? Again, on the failed posts, what is the recipient
count from the 'smtp' log - what does sendmail's maillog say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 17:22:09 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:22:09 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> David Lee wrote:
> >
> >System:
> >   Fedora Core 5
> >   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
> >   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)
> >
> >
> >On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
> >failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
> >1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;
>
>
> What is in Mailman's 'smtp', 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs?
> Specifically, are there any bounces recorded in the bounce log, (Is
> bounce processing turned on for the list?) and how many recipients are
> indicated in the smtp log entry?

Thanks for the reply, Mark.  Appreciated.

smtp:  All cases:
     <...> smtp to ourlist for 89 recips, completed in ...

smtp-failure:  Nothing

bounce:  No error indications.

"bounce processing" webpage indicates "Yes" for all the yes/no tickboxes.




> >2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
> >   expansion;
>
>
> Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.

On these duff emails, the headers prior to Mailman are absent.  Something
has removed them.  I'm speculating (and it is mere speculation without
evidence!) that a badly formatted incoming (or mismatched content;
8-bit-isms, etc.) email might be exposing some sort of lurking problem in
Mailman.


> >3. Instead of:
> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >   we see just:
> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
>
>
> Are these the actual headers in the raw message or just what an MUA
> shows? If the latter, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
> If the former, I suspect Exchange.

Although the department is Exchange based (don't ask!) I'm personally
using good old trusty Pine to read this information from the copy of the
email that comes to me (fortunately I'm one of the 59 who receive it).
Yes, Outlook and OWA are (in general) conflating the "Sender:" and "From:"
so I'm painfully aware of that presentation issue.


> >4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
> >   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
>
>
> If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
> won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
> even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)

Again, this was just an observation.  Something, somewhere is going wrong,
and this is a _set_ of symptoms on such emails.


> >5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
> >   unusual at all.
>
>
> See item 1 above - what is the number of recipiients in the smtp log
> entry?

89 (everyone).  But the sendmail log says 59 (on the bad emails; 89 on the
good).


> >6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
> >   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
> >   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
> >   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.
>
>
> That is a raw rendering of a quoted-printable encoding. If you are
> looking at a raw mesage and it has a "Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> quoted-printable" header, this is normal. Otherwise, the encoding is
> getting lost somewhere. It's possible, but unlikely that Mailman did
> it. Bugs in this area should be fixed in 2.1.8.
>
>
> >A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
> >Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
> >Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?
>
>
> Exchange can screw up anything, but once the message gets to Mailman,
> if it is sent at all, it should be sent to all eligible members. Are
> all 89 members non-digest and delivery enabled?

The list is set up automatically with everyone identical: a typical
entry is ticked for "mods", "nodupes" and "plain".


> Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
> want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)

"Topics"?  I'm new to Mailman (but with several years email experience).
Guide me!


>
> >Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
> >the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
> >cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
> >really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
> >mails to the list, not just some of them.
>
>
> If this is an issue, it would only affect the one user unless sendmail
> doesn't like it somehow and drops it and either all preceeding or
> following RCPT addresses in that transaction.

The list membership is basically static.  The apostrophe person has been
here many years and her email has been fine.


>
> I just reread the initial 'fails sometimes' part which I sort of
> ignored. This is more puzzling, but most of what I ask above is still
> relevant. Could there be some kind of anti-spam content filtering
> affecting only the 30 missing? Are the failures from different posters
> than the successes? Again, on the failed posts, what is the recipient
> count from the 'smtp' log - what does sendmail's maillog say?

Yes it is that "sometimes" which is baffling.  An email to the list failed
(as described, with that set of symptoms) this morning.  A repost
(admittedly slightly edited)  to appease those who would complain of
double receipt worked (all symptoms gone).

Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)

Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?



-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Jun  5 17:37:03 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 08:37:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>

7D wrote:
>So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the 
>sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am 
>promptly told to put the question on the users list which is 
>non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by 
>y'alls descriptions) how to do something.  Sorry if I sound a little 
>frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written 
>so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  ANYWAY...  Can 
>someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation 
>emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a 
>customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of 
>confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb 
>care of would greatly be apprecaited.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Going into a user-supported, open-source community demanding help 
with an attitude like this is not going to win you any points.

Mark and Brad answered your question for you but a bit of due 
diligence on your part would have saved a lot of vitriol and you 
would not have annoyed two of the most helpful, knowledgeable and 
active members of this forum.

There is an extensive FAQ with a search facility that would have 
gotten you the answer you needed without the unpleasantness.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Mon Jun  5 18:00:58 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:00:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C0A9A34A.CE57%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/5/06 1:44 AM, "7D" <jebva at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation
> emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats
> to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested
> action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.

Brad and Mark have provided the answer.

If one is part of an organization which tries to train its people not to
click on links in email--a reasonable training goal in today's malware
world, it seems wrong for that organization's mailing lists to send out
email which strongly encourages clicking on such links.

Having not found that idea in the Feature Requests section on SourceForge, I
have added item 1501086 there covering it.

  --John (who normally discards list messages with subjects containing
"Second request" and the like, but didn't this time)





From danielbk at ornl.gov  Mon Jun  5 18:09:35 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:09:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.
Any suggestions?

mailertable

domain.gov                 mailman:domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov

 

virtualusertable

##

## Place mailing list virtual mappings here

testlist at domain.gov                        testlist

testlist-admin at domain.gov                  testlist-admin

testlist-bounces at domain.gov                testlist-bounces

testlist-confirm at domain.gov                testlist-confirm

testlist-join at domain.gov                   testlist-join

testlist-leave at domain.gov                  testlist-leave

testlist-owner at domain.gov                  testlist-owner

testlist-request at domain.gov                testlist-request

testlist-subscribe at domain.gov              testlist-subscribe

testlist-unsubscribe at domain.gov            testlist-unsubscribe

 

##

## Redirect mail to the standard Mailman admin addresses to the

## master admin address. ( is our site's central

## mail-routing server, and it carries aliases for maintenance groups.

## Not a good plan to entrust Mailman maintenance mail to Mailman.)

##

mailman at listserv.domain.gov                mailman-owner at domain.gov

mailman-owner at listserv.domain.gov          mailman-owner at domain.gov

 

/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp

May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds

"/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters

May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds

May 20 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148126400.12254.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.067 seconds

May 21 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148212800.14751.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.089 seconds

May 22 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148299201.17245.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.122 seconds

May 23 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148385601.19920.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.106 seconds

May 24 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148472000.25754.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.081 seconds

May 25 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148558401.2563.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.078 seconds

May 26 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148644800.8882.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

May 27 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148731201.23378.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.099 seconds

May 28 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148817601.7850.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

May 29 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148904001.22295.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds

May 30 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148990400.6750.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.104 seconds

May 31 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149076800.21419.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.098 seconds

Jun 01 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149163201.5829.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.103 seconds

Jun 02 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149249600.20237.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.076 seconds

Jun 03 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149336000.4898.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.099 seconds

Jun 04 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149422401.19476.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.098 seconds

Jun 05 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

 

/var/log/maillog

Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
size=2214, class=-60,

nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
Ok.)


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:44 PM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions

On 5/18/06, Daniel, Barry K. <danielbk at ornl.gov> wrote:
>
> Yes, I did rebuild the aliases file and restart Sendmail.
> The messages are arriving at the Mailman server with a @domain.gov
address, not @domainpriv.gov.
> How do I ensure that Sendmail is set to accept this as a local
delivery address?  The Mailman machine is XXXX.domainpriv.gov.

There are a couple of ways to do this with sendmail. If you have
mailertable support, you can add a rule to your mailertable like:

domain.gov local:

Or, perhaps, you can add domain.gov to sendmail's 'local-host-names'
file.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 18:34:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>

David Lee wrote:

>smtp:  All cases:
>     <...> smtp to ourlist for 89 recips, completed in ...
>
>smtp-failure:  Nothing
>
>bounce:  No error indications.
>
>"bounce processing" webpage indicates "Yes" for all the yes/no tickboxes.


OK. This tells us that Mailman delivered the post to sendmail for 89
recipients and there were no errors reported back to Mailman at the
SMTP transaction level and no subsequent bounces (recognized bounces
would be counted in the bounce log and unrecognized bounces forwarded
to the list owner.



>> >2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
>> >   expansion;
>>
>>
>> Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.
>
>On these duff emails, the headers prior to Mailman are absent.  Something
>has removed them.  I'm speculating (and it is mere speculation without
>evidence!) that a badly formatted incoming (or mismatched content;
>8-bit-isms, etc.) email might be exposing some sort of lurking problem in
>Mailman.


If there were such a lurking problem, I can't see how it would cause
this problem. The message gets all the way through Mailman to the
'out' queue and has 89 recipients. The problem would have to cause
SMTPDirect to drop some recipients yet still count them. It's hard to
see how this could happen.

Is there anything in Mailman's error log? Anything in the 'shunt' queue
(qfiles/shunt directory)?


>> >3. Instead of:
>> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
>> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>> >   we see just:
>> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).


Always, or just on problem cases? Assuming SMTPDirect is unmodified, it
always adds a "Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site" header to the
outgoing message. Thus, deletion of Sender: must be happening after
Mailman.


>> >4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
>> >   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
>>
>>
>> If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
>> won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
>> even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)
>
>Again, this was just an observation.  Something, somewhere is going wrong,
>and this is a _set_ of symptoms on such emails.


So this only occurs on the problem mails? wierd!



>> Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
>> want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)
>
>"Topics"?  I'm new to Mailman (but with several years email experience).
>Guide me!


Don't worry about Topics. This would only be relevant if the recipient
count in the 'smtp' log were 59 in the problem cases.



>Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
>look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)


Not yet.


>Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?


There are no extra debugging switches to get more log output.

You could do the following:

Edit the file Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py

The last line in the file is:

    failures.update(refused)

Following this, add

    syslog('smtp', 'Msgid: %s, Chunk sent to: %s', msgid, recips)

Indent this the same amount (4 spaces) as the line above. This will log
the list of recipients for each (possibly only one depending on other
settings) SMTP transaction. After editing the file, you need to do
'bin/mailmanctl restart' to load the changed module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 18:44:46 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 13:44:46 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
Message-ID: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,
I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman server 
is not answering adequately.
I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix

Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
helo=<hostname.domain>

What it can be happening?
Already it restarts mailman 2.1.8 two times.

Cheers,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From dudu.meyer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  5 19:16:27 2006
From: dudu.meyer at gmail.com (Eduardo Meyer)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:16:27 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
Message-ID: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am willing to configure Virtual Domains in Postfix, and followed
documentation available at:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html

Other than correctly configuring Postfix and mm_cfg.py with
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = pointing all my virtual domains, I
also added

add_virtualhost('www.XX.domain', 'XX.domain')

To mm_cfg.py after I tried without it. And in both cases (with and
without) I didn't work.

When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
mailman states this list already exists. I am trying to create it via
Web...

Created the first list on:

http://www.domain.com.br/mailman/create

And want to create the second on

http://www.XX.domain.com.br/mailman/create

Mailman Web interface does not distinguishes that it is a different
domain (a subdomain in fact).

What am I missing? Is there a better documentation than the above
mentioned to try before asking for help?

Thank you a lot.


From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 19:18:17 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:18:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051758480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Is there anything in Mailman's error log? Anything in the 'shunt' queue
> (qfiles/shunt directory)?

Empty for two weeks (and that itself was installation set-up issues).

> >> >3. Instead of:
> >> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
> >> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >> >   we see just:
> >> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
>
>
> Always, or just on problem cases? Assuming SMTPDirect is unmodified, it
> always adds a "Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site" header to the
> outgoing message. Thus, deletion of Sender: must be happening after
> Mailman.

Just problem cases.  Good emails have both fields (as shown above);  bad
emails have just the "From" but with "Sender"-like contents (as above).


> So this only occurs on the problem mails? wierd!

Yes!

> There are no extra debugging switches to get more log output.
>
> You could do the following:
>
> Edit the file Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
>
> The last line in the file is:
>
>     failures.update(refused)
>
> Following this, add
>
>     syslog('smtp', 'Msgid: %s, Chunk sent to: %s', msgid, recips)
>
> Indent this the same amount (4 spaces) as the line above. This will log
> the list of recipients for each (possibly only one depending on other
> settings) SMTP transaction. After editing the file, you need to do
> 'bin/mailmanctl restart' to load the changed module.

Done (edit and 'bin/mailmanctl restart').  I think I got it right!

I'll await the next email (or two) through the list.

Thanks again.

-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 18:31:22 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:31:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <p06200707c0aa0bcf459d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:37 AM -0700 2006-06-05, Dragon wrote:

>  Mark and Brad answered your question for you but a bit of due
>  diligence on your part would have saved a lot of vitriol and you
>  would not have annoyed two of the most helpful, knowledgeable and
>  active members of this forum.

	In all fairness, the list descriptions at 
<http://www.list.org/lists.html> are not as accurate as they could 
be, and the descriptions we have at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/>, 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers>, and 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> could 
probably also use some further clarification.

	I'll take these up with Barry and the other list admins -- it's 
easy enough for us to fix the descriptions that are actually under 
the control of Mailman, but only Barry can fix the web pages at 
list.org.


	That said, you are absolutely correct that a few moments spent 
searching the FAQ and the list archives could have gotten an answer 
to this question without involving anyone else at all, and also 
avoided any delays in trying to post the message to one place, then 
being told that it should be posted somewhere else, etc....

	Thanks for your support!

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 18:36:08 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:36:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
References: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200708c0aa0ce88768@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:22 PM +0100 2006-06-05, David Lee wrote:

>  Yes it is that "sometimes" which is baffling.  An email to the list failed
>  (as described, with that set of symptoms) this morning.  A repost
>  (admittedly slightly edited)  to appease those who would complain of
>  double receipt worked (all symptoms gone).

	The more I see about this, the more I suspect that some sort of 
arcane bug is being triggered in Mailman or one of the Python 
libraries.

>  Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
>  look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)

	Complete copies of sample messages that get munged versus 
messages that go through unharmed might help, as well as copies of 
messages that went before and after each incident.  Combined with 
additional log information, this might let us figure out what's going 
on.

>  Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?

	Regretfully, Mailman doesn't have any additional debug facilities 
that are not already turned on.  You might be able to add some 
additional Python code to cause additional information to be logged, 
but it will take time to narrow down precisely where that additional 
code would be needed.

	I'm hoping that more extensive debugging facilities is something 
that can be addressed in Mailman 2.2, or at least in Mailman3.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 19:24:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 10:24:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <448468DF.3050101@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
> I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman server 
> is not answering adequately.
> I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
> receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix
> 
> Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
> RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
> from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
> helo=<hostname.domain>

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you removed 
UserMail at domain from the listname-l list, yet Postfix is still receiving 
mail from the list for that user.

Is that address an 'owner' or a 'moderator' of the listname-l list? That 
could cause the list to send mail to it.

Or are messages being sent from that address (possibly spoofed) to one 
of the list addresses?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 19:29:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:29:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
In-Reply-To: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051029330468f7e69f95@msapiro>

Eduardo Meyer wrote:
>
>When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
>mailman states this list already exists.


This is a limitation of Mailman. Even with virtual domains, list names
must be unique within the installation, not just within the domain.


>What am I missing? Is there a better documentation than the above
>mentioned to try before asking for help?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 19:57:47 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:57:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
Message-ID: <4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>>
>> I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman 
>> server is not answering adequately.
>> I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
>> receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix
>>
>> Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
>> RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
>> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
>> from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
>> helo=<hostname.domain>
>
> If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you removed 
> UserMail at domain from the listname-l list, yet Postfix is still 
> receiving mail from the list for that user.
Yes
> Is that address an 'owner' or a 'moderator' of the listname-l list? 
> That could cause the list to send mail to it.
Normal user.
> Or are messages being sent from that address (possibly spoofed) to one 
> of the list addresses?
Apparently mailman is using a separate archive of users old table from 
listname-l to direct the messages.
As postfix that all time that I bring up to date /etc/aliases, necessary 
to twirl the command newaliases.
It can be this? Exists this in the Mailman?

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Jun  5 19:33:46 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:33:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single code base?
Message-ID: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I'm wondering, as a means for simplifying maintainence, is
there a way to deploy multiple instances of Mailman off a
single code base, so that there is only one instance of the
code to upgrade and maintain.  

Any and all insight would be appreciated.  

-- 
Hugh Esco 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 20:04:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:04:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <4484723F.1060806@value.net>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
> My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
> do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.


What's in your aliases file? There should be 10 entries for each list 
that look similar to the following excerpt for the 'mailman' list

  mailman:             "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
  mailman-admin:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
  mailman-bounces:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
  mailman-confirm:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
  mailman-join:        "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
  mailman-leave:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
  mailman-owner:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
  mailman-request:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
  mailman-subscribe:   "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
  mailman-unsubscribe: "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

Without these, those local addresses won't be piped to Mailman.


> /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp
> 
> May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds


This looks like an actual post was sent to 4 recipients.



> "/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters
> 
> May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
> <mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds


This and all the subsequent ones look like the "nn testlist moderator 
requests waiting" message sent to the testlist-owner address at 8:00 
a.m. daily, but it is not being received at the testlist-owner address 
and piped back to mailman for delivery to the actual owner


> /var/log/maillog
> 
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> size=2214, class=-60,
> 
> nrcpts=1,
> msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> 
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
> relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
> Ok.)


But it is sent somewhere - maybe /var/spool/mail/testlist-owner?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dudu.meyer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  5 20:08:02 2006
From: dudu.meyer at gmail.com (Eduardo Meyer)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:08:02 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606051029330468f7e69f95@msapiro>
References: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606051029330468f7e69f95@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d3ea75b30606051108w616c1266sbadeff2263d2b6fe@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Eduardo Meyer wrote:
> >
> >When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
> >mailman states this list already exists.
>
>
> This is a limitation of Mailman. Even with virtual domains, list names
> must be unique within the installation, not just within the domain.

> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>

Very bad, because I am exactly migrating the enviroment from CPanel to
non-cpanel.

I will try Niedermann's patches.

Thank you Sapiro for pointing out this limitation and references.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 20:15:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:15:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <448474CA.3080706@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:

> Apparently mailman is using a separate archive of users old table from 
> listname-l to direct the messages.

There is no such thing. Mailman has no prior users information. If you 
are looking at membership via the web, it is possible that you are 
seeing old cached pages and not seeing an accurate list. What does

bin/list_members listname-l

or

bin/list_members listname-l | grep -i UserMail

show?


> As postfix that all time that I bring up to date /etc/aliases, necessary 
> to twirl the command newaliases.
> It can be this? Exists this in the Mailman?


No. Any changes you make via say bin/remove_members or the Membership 
Management web interface are effective immediately.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lists at videonetwork.org  Mon Jun  5 20:17:54 2006
From: lists at videonetwork.org (Ben Edwards (Lists))
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:17:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] misgation advice
Message-ID: <1149531474.4891.26.camel@chomsky>

We have a new server running plesk/mailman 2.1.5.  We need to move from
a old server with mailman 2.1.2.  What is the best way to do this, the
URL/domains are changing and we want to move the archive.

Ben




From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Mon Jun  5 20:21:28 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>
References: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
	<44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>
Message-ID: <44847628.1000302@cloudshield.com>

Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>>> specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>>> each time.
>>>     
>>>       
>> Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
>> some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
>> file?
>>   
>>     
>
>   No.  I modified the config file directly.  I hadn't looked in the 
> Private section from the web interface previously.  I recently started 
> using the master password since no one could remember what the regular 
> mailman admin password was.  Prior to using the master password, I 
> didn't have access to the web interface and I was trying to do 
> everything as root from the command line.  I just now added the email 
> address via the web interface in the Private section.
>   
>>   
>>     
>>>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>>> changes to take effect?
>>>     
>>>       
>> You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
>> the config.db each time the list is accessed.
>>
>>   
>>     
> Cool.
>   
>>   
>>     
>>>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>>> messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.
>>>     
>>>       
>> This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
>> the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
>> address you are subscribing.
>>
>>   
>>     
> I think that the modification of the poster field via the web interface 
> will solve the problem.  I'll find out the next time the email (once 
> daily) gets generated whether or not it gets posted automatically or 
> not.  If this doesn't work then I'll look into the (subtle) differences 
> in the email headers.
>
> Thanks so much for your reply,
> Ken Wolcott
> kwolcott at cloudshield.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kwolcott%40cloudshield.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   
  Adding the poster via the web interface solved the problem.  I no 
longer have to accept the postings from this virtual user.

Thank you,
Ken W.


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 20:21:44 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:21:44 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br> <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
Message-ID: <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>> Apparently mailman is using a separate archive of users old table 
>> from listname-l to direct the messages.
>
> There is no such thing. Mailman has no prior users information. If you 
> are looking at membership via the web, it is possible that you are 
> seeing old cached pages and not seeing an accurate list. What does
>
> bin/list_members listname-l
>
> or
>
> bin/list_members listname-l | grep -i UserMail
>
> show?
No, but postfix/smtpd have try to send e-mail. Very stranger....
Any idea?
>> As postfix that all time that I bring up to date /etc/aliases, 
>> necessary to twirl the command newaliases.
>> It can be this? Exists this in the Mailman?
> No. Any changes you make via say bin/remove_members or the Membership 
> Management web interface are effective immediately.
Ok,

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 20:52:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:52:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448468DF.3050101@value.net>	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448474CA.3080706@value.net> <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <44847D64.6070003@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:

> No, but postfix/smtpd have try to send e-mail. Very stranger....
> Any idea?

If an address is not a list member, the only ways I know that mailman 
will try to send to it are

It is an 'owner', or
It is a 'moderator' (have you checked to be sure it isn't either of 
these), or

Mailman is sending some kind of reply to a message received from that 
address - e.g. a possibly spoofed post attempt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Mon Jun  5 21:52:25 2006
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (gus)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 16:52:25 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop
Message-ID: <44848B79.3090109@clacso.edu.ar>

Hello
I have a problem with Mailman..
Two errors in two week...

[Errno 3] No such process
File pid corrupted delete..

When I see these error , mailman stop...
Anyone can help me,,
Thanks
Gus



From chris at woodchipcomputers.co.uk  Mon Jun  5 22:41:03 2006
From: chris at woodchipcomputers.co.uk (Chris Wright)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 21:41:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably RTFM
Message-ID: <4484A4EF.7504.318D45B@chris.woodchipcomputers.co.uk>

I've read through all the FAQs I can find - and discovered several 
bits of "good advice" - but still haven't done it...

My Mailman admin pages all lack the logos, mailman.jpg etc.

Some advice tells me to put it in the Apache default icons folder (in 
my case, I think that's /usr/share/apache2/icons/) - and I am sure 
that may be true for (eg) this mailman-users list, which calls for:

<img src="/icons/mailman.jpg">

However the pages created by my installation say:

<img src="/images/mailman/mailman.jpg>

I am at a loss as to how I either:

Alter a config file to make my pages look in the default icons page

or

Find the right *@!^* folder to put the icons in!

Sorry that this is such a boring old hat of a question - but I got 
stuck and would be REALLY grateful for some guidance...

Best wishes
Chris




From ogre at rpg-vault.net  Mon Jun  5 23:13:55 2006
From: ogre at rpg-vault.net (ogre at rpg-vault.net)
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 2006 17:13:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with mailman starting.
Message-ID: <20060605171355.97frg7sxjsgsk004@webmail.rpg-vault.net>

I am currently running mailman in a plesk enviroment. This is the first attempt
that I have made to use it on the system. However I noticed that it was not
working. Deeper investigation showed me that mailman was not even loading.
Checking the error logs I found that following:

Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 597, in ?
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      main()
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 416, in main
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      check_for_site_list()
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 318, in
check_for_site_list
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      sitelist = MailList(sitelistname,
lock=0)
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      self.Load()
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 593, in Load
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict, e = self.__load(file)
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 566, in __load
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict = loadfunc(fp)
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): AttributeError :  'dict' object has no
attribute 'append'

Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be causing this. I'm afraid I've
been unable to locate a reason for it.

Please let me know your thoughts.

-- James Boylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Jun  5 23:36:22 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:36:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single code
 base?
In-Reply-To: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Just to clarify what I'm asking here:  

Is it possible to run instances of Mailman on
multiple and distinct domains on a single installation of
the code base?  

Does anyone here have a recipe for how this is done? 

-- Hugh 

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:33:46 -0700
Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:

> I'm wondering, as a means for simplifying maintainence, is
> there a way to deploy multiple instances of Mailman off a
> single code base, so that there is only one instance of the
> code to upgrade and maintain.  
> 
> Any and all insight would be appreciated.  
> 
> -- 
> Hugh Esco 
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/he%40reclaimedcomputers.ca
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


-- 
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jun  6 00:02:43 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:02:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single code
 base?
In-Reply-To: <20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605145135.0612f138@crimson-dragon.com>

Hugh Esco sent the message below at 14:36 6/5/2006:
>Just to clarify what I'm asking here:
>
>Is it possible to run instances of Mailman on
>multiple and distinct domains on a single installation of
>the code base?
>
>Does anyone here have a recipe for how this is done?
>
>-- Hugh
>
>On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:33:46 -0700
>Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering, as a means for simplifying maintainence, is
> > there a way to deploy multiple instances of Mailman off a
> > single code base, so that there is only one instance of the
> > code to upgrade and maintain.
> >
> > Any and all insight would be appreciated.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

As far as I know and understand, this is not possible without a lot 
of effort to make it happen. The default build of mailman certainly 
cannot do this because of the way it reads its configuration.

The only thing I can think of that might make this work without a 
complete rewrite of mailman (and I am far from being certain that 
this would in fact work) would be to create a copy of the 
installation directory structure and then populate it with symbolic 
links to all of the scripts, wrappers, etc. You would then need 
copies of the configuration files in the new directory with 
appropriate changes.

This seems difficult at best. I'm also not sure what advantage such a 
configuration might provide other than reduced disk space (but 
mailman itself has a pretty small disk footprint, it's the archives 
that are disk hogs). It's probably a lot easier to create a shell 
script to build and install new versions of mailman in however many 
directories you need for the various copies you wish to run.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 02:25:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:25:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably RTFM
In-Reply-To: <4484A4EF.7504.318D45B@chris.woodchipcomputers.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051725150140335e853b@msapiro>

Chris Wright wrote:
>
>I am at a loss as to how I either:
>
>Alter a config file to make my pages look in the default icons page
>
>or
>
>Find the right *@!^* folder to put the icons in!


Yeah, I think it's rtfm :-)

Specifically, <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

If the manual is unclear, ask again and I'll try to translate it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 02:51:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:51:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with mailman starting.
In-Reply-To: <20060605171355.97frg7sxjsgsk004@webmail.rpg-vault.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051751300515ebd0a001@msapiro>

ogre at rpg-vault.net wrote:

>I am currently running mailman in a plesk enviroment. This is the first attempt
>that I have made to use it on the system. However I noticed that it was not
>working. Deeper investigation showed me that mailman was not even loading.
>Checking the error logs I found that following:
>
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 597, in ?
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      main()
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 416, in main
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      check_for_site_list()
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 318, in
>check_for_site_list
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      sitelist = MailList(sitelistname,
>lock=0)
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      self.Load()
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 593, in Load
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict, e = self.__load(file)
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 566, in __load
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict = loadfunc(fp)
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): AttributeError :  'dict' object has no
>attribute 'append'
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be causing this. I'm afraid I've
>been unable to locate a reason for it.


Well, there is a file lists/mailman/config.pck (assuming the default
name 'mailman' for the site list) or maybe config.db or either of
those with .last appended, or you wouldn't be getting to that point in
the code.

I'm not sure why the attempt to load it throws that particular
exception, but whatever the putative list configuration file is, it is
apparently corrupt.

Assuming the sitelist name is 'mailman', I suggest the following:

bin/rmlist -a mailman
bin/newlist mailman
         (there will be some interactive prompts from this)
bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman

Or you could create and set up the 'mailman' list using the web
interface - mailmanctl doesn't have to be running for that.

Also, it might be a good idea to check what is actually in the
lists/mailman directory before doing the rmlist in case it's the
'wrong' directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 03:12:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single
	codebase?
In-Reply-To: <20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051812430046c2172819@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>Is it possible to run instances of Mailman on
>multiple and distinct domains on a single installation of
>the code base?  

Dragon has actually given a good response, but to elaborate a bit, at
first blush it would seem you could configure a bunch of Mailman
instances with the same --prefix and each with its own unique
--with-var-prefix.

The big issue is each install requires its own Defaults.py and
mm_cfg.py because these contain both paths and host domain names, and
these modules live in $prefix/Mailman with (most of) the rest of the
code. Changing this would literally require changing "from Mailman
import mm_cfg" in every single module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 03:29:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:29:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] misgation advice
In-Reply-To: <1149531474.4891.26.camel@chomsky>
Message-ID: <PC174020060605182915075087a77f7d@msapiro>

Ben Edwards (Lists) wrote:

>We have a new server running plesk/mailman 2.1.5.  We need to move from
>a old server with mailman 2.1.2.  What is the best way to do this, the
>URL/domains are changing and we want to move the archive.


Move lists/* except for lists/mailman and run fix_url on each list. If
you don't have virtual hosts requiring different fix_url options for
different lists, you can just run

bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url

Run bin/fix_url.py for details of fix_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

Archives can be done in a couple of ways. You can move the entire
archives/ directory except for archives/private/mailman/ and
archives/private/mailman.mbox/, but that will leave some absolute URLs
in the archive with the wrong host name. To avoid this, you can mobe
just the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files for each
list and then run bin/arch --wipe on each list to recreate the HTML
archives. This won't create the public archive symlinks, but those get
redone on the fly anyway every time the list is changed in any way
(web config, post, etc.).

There is a FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
but it is sorely in need of updating.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 03:37:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:37:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop
In-Reply-To: <44848B79.3090109@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060518373807967520eb62@msapiro>

gus wrote:

>I have a problem with Mailman..
>Two errors in two week...
>
>[Errno 3] No such process
>File pid corrupted delete..
>
>When I see these error , mailman stop...


Where do you see this error? Is there any additional information
associated with it? What Mailman version is this? What OS
platform/version?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 04:35:30 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:35:30 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606051935m364d8da9j88239fce60ba6794@mail.gmail.com>

Sending mail to list failed, Seems this is  the config problem.

Here is the exim4's mainlog:
2006-06-06 02:10:29 H=(squid5.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.5] F=<
wealthyplum at yahoo.com> temporarily rejected RCPT <
slash-chinese at lists.mysite.org>: require_files:
"MM_HOME/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck" is not absolute

Help Please!

Thanks.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 05:22:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 20:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606051935m364d8da9j88239fce60ba6794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606052022540453e462647b@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>Here is the exim4's mainlog:
>2006-06-06 02:10:29 H=(squid5.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.5] F=<
>wealthyplum at yahoo.com> temporarily rejected RCPT <
>slash-chinese at lists.mysite.org>: require_files:
>"MM_HOME/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck" is not absolute


Do you have an assignment to MM_HOME in your exim.conf file. Is it an
absolute path to the directory that contains
/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck, i.e. something like

MM_HOME=/usr/local/mailman

See <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 06:42:07 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:42:07 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606052022540453e462647b@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606051935m364d8da9j88239fce60ba6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606052022540453e462647b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <657728f60606052142m5cb72e9av9411f23d78f36cd6@mail.gmail.com>

I have MAILMAN_HOME = ... in my exim main configuration file, changed to
MM_HOME = ...
But maybe it also has other problems, when sending mail to list, mailman
send back and says local delivery failed. I am checking now.

On 6/6/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >Here is the exim4's mainlog:
> >2006-06-06 02:10:29 H=(squid5.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.5] F=<
> > wealthyplum at yahoo.com> temporarily rejected RCPT <
> >slash-chinese at lists.mysite.org>: require_files:
> >"MM_HOME/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck" is not absolute
>
>
> Do you have an assignment to MM_HOME in your exim.conf file. Is it an
> absolute path to the directory that contains
> /lists/slash-chinese/config.pck, i.e. something like
>
> MM_HOME=/usr/local/mailman
>
> See <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From pabs3 at bonedaddy.net  Tue Jun  6 06:49:55 2006
From: pabs3 at bonedaddy.net (Paul Wise)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 12:49:55 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
Message-ID: <1149569395.6963.72.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi all,

[please CC me, I am subscribed, but have nomail set]

I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
lists associated with a mailman install. I run a small mailman install,
and my list admins are not very active, so I like to go through all the
lists once in a while and discard spam. Currently I use a simple script
to generate a list of admindb urls to open in my browser. That has
become tedious though.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://pabs.zip.to
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From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Tue Jun  6 05:35:55 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 00:35:55 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
Message-ID: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>

Hope you could help....

I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt changed the mailman domain name, so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the archive directory with the new domain name.
Now for some reason the confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is showing the old domain name, how i could change it?

Thank you in advance!

From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Jun  6 07:28:55 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 01:28:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
In-Reply-To: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>
References: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <20060606052855.GE2258@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
> changed the mailman domain name

Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)

> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?

There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
cpanel.

If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.

One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
and vague recollections. :)

Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
     -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkSFEpcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qvOwCeI6UlDJsKT3rU1+yb+4R3jlGN/xwAoOMQbGkC
shq9BAzOXbbpRHIn7933
=Tl7a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From infernokim at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 11:46:36 2006
From: infernokim at gmail.com (kim moodley)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:46:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import email addresses
Message-ID: <7b59d3d10606060246pa7b2687j58c6dd76d4f5f44d@mail.gmail.com>

I need help.

I have a new mailing list. I have about 600 addresses in a excel

spreadsheet.

In what format should it be in to import and how do i do it .

Please, Please help me.


From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Tue Jun  6 18:11:39 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 13:11:39 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
References: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<20060606052855.GE2258@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <015501c68983$e61ba3d0$6401a8c0@sarna>

Thanx Todd, ill give it a try.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Zullinger" <tmz at pobox.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
>> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
>> changed the mailman domain name
> 
> Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)
> 
>> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
>> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
>> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
>> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?
> 
> There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
> it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
> script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
> correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
> cpanel.
> 
> If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
> someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
> search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
> from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.
> 
> One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
> append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
> affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
> examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
> one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
> that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
> variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
> have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
> and vague recollections. :)
> 
> Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
> 
> - -- 
> Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
> ======================================================================
> It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
>     -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
> 
> iG0EARECAC0FAkSFEpcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
> ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qvOwCeI6UlDJsKT3rU1+yb+4R3jlGN/xwAoOMQbGkC
> shq9BAzOXbbpRHIn7933
> =Tl7a
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
>


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Jun  6 18:22:12 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:22:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Separating Public and Private Archives
Message-ID: <200606061622.k56GMCJQ029254@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

The mailman code puts, for public archives, a pointer to the
private directory.  This will prevent public access to the private
archives if the archives are on a traditional Unix file system.
I am experimenting with placing the archives in the Andrew File
System (AFS), where access is controlled by access control lists.
In AFS, a non-privileged user can see the private archives.

Is there an easy way to change the mailman behavior so that the 
public archives are placed into their own directory and are not
symbolic links to the private directory?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Tue Jun  6 18:45:22 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 13:45:22 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <44847D64.6070003@value.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448468DF.3050101@value.net>	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448474CA.3080706@value.net> <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
	<44847D64.6070003@value.net>
Message-ID: <4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi Mark,

I discovered that in the dir /var/spool/mailman, exists several queue 
mail files .pck.
How I make to clean these messages? They are some command in mailman, I 
was using show_qfiles

/var/spool/mailman
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:06 archive
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 348160 Jun  6 12:34 bounces
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  3 01:59 commands
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:34 in
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Dez  7 22:10 news
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  28672 Jun  6 13:28 out
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 13:28 retry
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 10:29 shunt
drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  20480 Jun  6 12:21 virgin

[root at MAILMANSRV bin]# ls -l /var/spool/mailman/out/
total 80
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 33751 Jun  6 13:21 
1149508442.772583+5e97f28df0f1ef37bdf9035a7b169e7ec632844d.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 35273 Jun  6 13:21 
1149512047.127331+e5373243d0cf32e5c52247b102f661e0b5771735.pck
[root at MAILMANSRV bin]# ls -l /var/spool/mailman/retry/
total 712
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 286717 Jun  6 13:22 
1149184670.344089+ec5f7731834330c8a3e9cb3a0dcf646a0e23907e.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  18235 Jun  6 13:23 
1149193398.3745279+6473b547e916eb4208494d70922ee2a79ba51a0e.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  12618 Jun  6 13:24 
1149249199.3237391+17f248993aca327230ecf3622d40aad90242f06d.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 294079 Jun  6 13:26 
1149254706.318541+1878d7cb6fe8bdad82d140421503e8b771e3100b.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  18968 Jun  6 13:28 
1149260259.1665981+4328f6486e955040a2772063324b57cc5d7a10d7.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  28785 Jun  6 13:30 
1149275615.933814+9eb98a0c97e56e16ade672e1a6b7b3b0abb7749e.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  19380 Jun  6 13:21 
1149513325.651197+604e5b0126e9c71c1523dcaa209d2a056e0c7c44.pck

Thanks a lot,
Cl?vis


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>> No, but postfix/smtpd have try to send e-mail. Very stranger....
>> Any idea?
>
> If an address is not a list member, the only ways I know that mailman 
> will try to send to it are
>
> It is an 'owner', or
> It is a 'moderator' (have you checked to be sure it isn't either of 
> these), or
>
> Mailman is sending some kind of reply to a message received from that 
> address - e.g. a possibly spoofed post attempt.
>


-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From ogre at rpg-vault.net  Tue Jun  6 22:05:56 2006
From: ogre at rpg-vault.net (ogre at rpg-vault.net)
Date: Tue,  6 Jun 2006 16:05:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Down, one more to go.
In-Reply-To: <4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br> <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
	<44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br> <44847D64.6070003@value.net>
	<4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>

Well, the original problem I was having has been resolved. It was an attribute
error and the information on removing and recreating the mailman list solved
it.

However now I have an issue where emailing a list the email you sent to 
the list
never goes anywhere. Nothing in the logs. Nothing anywhere.

I know that th3e invites and outbound matters from mailman work perfectly, but
none of the emails being sent to the mailing list are going anywhere. 
They just
seem to disappear and there doesn't seem to be any trace of them 
anywhere or in
any logs. I know that email is working on the server. Its my primary email
server and everyone is receiving email.

Anyone have any suggestions?

--
James T. Boylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Jun  6 22:30:00 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:30:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Down, one more to go.
In-Reply-To: <20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448468DF.3050101@value.net>	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448474CA.3080706@value.net>	<44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
	<44847D64.6070003@value.net>	<4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
	<20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
Message-ID: <4485E5C8.8030805@wingfoot.org>

ogre at rpg-vault.net wrote:
> However now I have an issue where emailing a list the email you sent to 
> the list never goes anywhere. Nothing in the logs. Nothing anywhere.
> 
> I know that th3e invites and outbound matters from mailman work perfectly, but
> none of the emails being sent to the mailing list are going anywhere. 
> They just seem to disappear and there doesn't seem to be any trace of them 
> anywhere or in any logs. I know that email is working on the server.
> Its my primary email server and everyone is receiving email.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?

First things first (from the FAQ Wizard):

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=troubleshooting&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

Once you've gone through that, let us know if you're still having
problems.. but we need to know stuff like:

1) What MTA are you running? Sendmail? Postfix? Exim? What?
2) Are the emails even coming into the server? Have you followed the
Message ID through the logs to see where it stops? Is it being delivered
to Mailman?
3) Relevant snippets of mail log files so we can see what may be going on.

Best,
--Glenn


From dan at music.memphis.edu  Tue Jun  6 22:21:01 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:21:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Down, one more to go.
In-Reply-To: <20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br> <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
	<44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br> <44847D64.6070003@value.net>
	<4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
	<20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
Message-ID: <0A314D97-DBCF-489B-91C0-E83DF9FF4876@music.memphis.edu>


On Jun 6, 2006, at 3:05 PM, ogre at rpg-vault.net wrote:

> none of the emails being sent to the mailing list are going anywhere.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions?

Have you been through the steps in http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw- 
mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp ?


Dan

====================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis
dan at music.memphis.edu





From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Tue Jun  6 23:02:34 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:02:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] locate user passwd or resend passwd to user?
Message-ID: <4485ED6A.1050002@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi,

I enable the archive file source for private archive; only current list 
members can view the archives.  The problem is I migrated the list of 
members via the command line /bin/add_members  in "quite" mode so the 
user doesn't have the password to authenticate to view the archive. 

How or where do I locate the user password or is there a way that I 
re-send out all email to user with their passwd attached?

Thanks!


From amir.helzer at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 23:50:14 2006
From: amir.helzer at gmail.com (Amir Helzer)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:50:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to connect my server to mailman?
Message-ID: <e335b7a20606061450q60ecf24k929069ab875f60ca@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm very new to mailman, so excuse my newbie questions.

My server has user lists and other information in its own database, and I
want to use mailman for mass email distribution (which my hosting forbids me
to do on the website server). So, I want my cgi-bin scripts to be able to do
management operations for my mailman lists, e.g.:
* Subscribe new users, so that they don't even need to reply to ack (they
already did it on my server)
* Subscribe news users so that the need to reply to mailman's subscription
email.
* Remove users from the list

Any remote queries that I can use (somewhat safely), from within the network
in order to achieve those?

Thanks,
Amir


From Muhammad at tajdeed.net  Wed Jun  7 00:13:58 2006
From: Muhammad at tajdeed.net (Muhammad Al-Massari)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 23:13:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list
Message-ID: <056d01c689b6$823ae9b0$5600000a@muhammadpc>

WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list

I tried to use the "Who password" command to obtain a complete listing of all the members of my list. Instead of getting the 20 000, or so, e-mails contained in that list, I got only about 750 e-mails (that i less than 4%).

Could any one out there advise what to do (or: not to do) to obtain the full list??!! 

Thanks very much in anticipation!!



Muhammad Al-Massari


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 02:14:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:14:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] locate user passwd or resend passwd to user?
In-Reply-To: <4485ED6A.1050002@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060617140400219e672e99@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I enable the archive file source for private archive; only current list 
>members can view the archives.  The problem is I migrated the list of 
>members via the command line /bin/add_members  in "quite" mode so the 
>user doesn't have the password to authenticate to view the archive. 
>
>How or where do I locate the user password or is there a way that I 
>re-send out all email to user with their passwd attached?

Users can request a password reminder email at any time by entering
their email on the listinfo page to go to their options page and then
clicking the "remind" button on the options login page.

Passwords are normally mailed monthly to each user unless you have
disabled this for the list.

You can generate reminders manually by running "cron/mailpasswds -l
listname", but password reminders must be enabled for the list
(General Options->send_reminders = Yes) or they wont be sent for that
list. Also, users can individually turn off auto-mailed passwords, but
anyone who did this had to know their password to do it and presumably
knew what they were doing.

Run "cron/mailpasswds --help" for more info.

Also, "bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck" will dump the passwords
along with much other data.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 02:29:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:29:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <657728f60606052142m5cb72e9av9411f23d78f36cd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606061729490396e8b0f8fd@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>I have MAILMAN_HOME = ... in my exim main configuration file, changed to
>MM_HOME = ...
>But maybe it also has other problems, when sending mail to list, mailman
>send back and says local delivery failed. I am checking now.


The Mailman installation manual uses MAILMAN_* macro names. The
instructions at <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf> use
MM_* macro names.

It looks like you have a hybrid. Use the instructions on the exim site.
They are mostly the same in effect, but the exim site has a couple of
other things correct which are not complete in the Mailman
installation manual.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 02:40:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:40:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>I discovered that in the dir /var/spool/mailman, exists several queue mail files .pck.
>How I make to clean these messages? They are some command in mailman, I 
>was using show_qfiles
>
>/var/spool/mailman
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:06 archive
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 348160 Jun  6 12:34 bounces
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  3 01:59 commands
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:34 in
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Dez  7 22:10 news
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  28672 Jun  6 13:28 out
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 13:28 retry
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 10:29 shunt
>drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  20480 Jun  6 12:21 virgin
>
>[root at MAILMANSRV bin]# ls -l /var/spool/mailman/out/
>total 80
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 33751 Jun  6 13:21 1149508442.772583+5e97f28df0f1ef37bdf9035a7b169e7ec632844d.pck
<snip>


If the messages in the 'out' queue are static (i.e. older ones don't
get processed and disappear), OutgoingRunner must not be running.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 03:10:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Separating Public and Private Archives
In-Reply-To: <200606061622.k56GMCJQ029254@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060618103303509e672fff@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>The mailman code puts, for public archives, a pointer to the
>private directory.  This will prevent public access to the private
>archives if the archives are on a traditional Unix file system.
>I am experimenting with placing the archives in the Andrew File
>System (AFS), where access is controlled by access control lists.
>In AFS, a non-privileged user can see the private archives.
>
>Is there an easy way to change the mailman behavior so that the 
>public archives are placed into their own directory and are not
>symbolic links to the private directory?  Thanks.

No, there isn't, but consider that even though the web server would
theoritically have access to the private archives, how would a user
access them? The 'pipermail' url is an alias to the symlink in the
archives/public/ directory and the symlink doesn't exist for a private
archive so the pipermail url won't work.

Direct access to the archives/private/ directory is through the
'private' cgi-bin wrapper and script which requires user authorization.

Thus, the only way to access a private archive without authorization is
to craft a URL (presumably a pipermail URL with some /../ directories
in it, but maybe something else) that will do it. I won't say it's not
possible to make this work with modern web servers/browsers, but I've
tried, and I can't.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Jun  7 03:21:51 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:21:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: Distutils is not available or is incomplete
 for /usr/bin/python
Message-ID: <20060606182151.e7e361f3.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

My firts attempts to build mailman on a new server are
throwing the errors shown below.  Can anyone here please
advise me what it is I'm missing?  Thanks, 

-- Hugh 

This is a Debian machine running: 

hesco at motherjones:~$ dpkg -l | grep python
ii  python         2.3.5-2        An interactive high-level
object-oriented la 

ii  python-newt    0.51.6-20      A NEWT
module for Python 

ii  python2.3      2.3.5-3sarge1  An
interactive high-level object-oriented la 

ii  python2.4      2.4.1-2        An interactive high-level
object-oriented la 

ii  python2.4-dev  2.4.1-2        Header files and a static
library for Python 

ii  python2.4-setu 0.0.1.041214-1 Python Distutils
Enhancements 

------------------------------

motherjones:/var/mm/e/el06/mailman-2.1.8# ./mm_configure.sh
loading cache ./config.cache
checking for --with-python... no
checking for python... /usr/bin/python
checking Python interpreter... /usr/bin/python
checking Python version... 2.3.5
checking that Python has a working distutils... configure:
error:

***** Distutils is not available or is incomplete
for /usr/bin/python 

***** If you installed Python from RPM (or other package
manager) 

***** be sure to install the -devel package, or
install Python 

***** from source.  See README.LINUX for
details ./mm_configure.sh: line 2:

--with-python=/usr/bin/python: No such file or
directory ./mm_configure.sh: line 3: 

--with-username=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 4: 

--with-groupname=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 5: 

--with-mail-gid=104: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 6: 

--with-cgi-gid=33: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 7: 

--with-mailhost=us.example.org: command not
found ./mm_configure.sh: line 8:

--with-urlhost=us.example.org: command not found

-- 
Hugh Esco 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 03:41:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import email addresses
In-Reply-To: <7b59d3d10606060246pa7b2687j58c6dd76d4f5f44d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060618414307092edba570@msapiro>

kim moodley wrote:
>
>I have a new mailing list. I have about 600 addresses in a excel
>
>spreadsheet.
>
>In what format should it be in to import and how do i do it .

export the addresses (and names) to a plain text file in one of the
formats described in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>.
Then use this text file as input to Mass Subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 03:48:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:48:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my
	list
In-Reply-To: <056d01c689b6$823ae9b0$5600000a@muhammadpc>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060618482409592edba657@msapiro>

Muhammad Al-Massari wrote:

>WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list


Because most of your members are hidden, probably because you've set
that as the default for ney members.

>Could any one out there advise what to do (or: not to do) to obtain the full list??!! 


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 05:08:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 20:08:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <1149569395.6963.72.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>

Paul Wise wrote:
>
>I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
>interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
>server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
>lists associated with a mailman install.

It would be fairly simple to modify cron/checkdbs to do this. You could
reduce the main loop to something like:

    for name in Utils.list_names():
        # the list must be locked in order to open the requests database
        mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
        try:
            print 'List %s -----------------' % name
            print pending_requests(mlist)
            print '\n\n'
        finally:
            mlist.Unlock()


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pabs3 at bonedaddy.net  Wed Jun  7 05:17:57 2006
From: pabs3 at bonedaddy.net (Paul Wise)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:17:57 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 20:08 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> > I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
> > interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
> > server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
> > lists associated with a mailman install.
> 
> It would be fairly simple to modify cron/checkdbs to do this. You could
> reduce the main loop to something like:

Thanks for the hint, pity it isn't already implemented. Is this
something I should contribute if I implement it?

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://pabs.zip.to
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From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Wed Jun  7 05:35:56 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:35:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
Message-ID: <050101c689e3$7e2c6ce0$6401a8c0@sarna>

okie, i moved and almost everything is working ok...now, the current month 
 archives are not showing
 
Check the following:

this is from May, and it showing the messages:

 http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-May/date.html
 
This is from June and is not showing any message:

 http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-June/date.html

Any idea how to fis it?
 
 Thanx!




> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan" <manuel at arteryplanet.net>
> To: "mailman mailing list" <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
> 
> 
>> Thanx Todd, ill give it a try.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Todd Zullinger" <tmz at pobox.com>
>> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
>>
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>>>> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
>>>> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
>>>> changed the mailman domain name
>>>
>>> Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)
>>>
>>>> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
>>>> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
>>>> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
>>>> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?
>>>
>>> There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
>>> it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
>>> script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
>>> correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
>>> cpanel.
>>>
>>> If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
>>> someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
>>> search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
>>> from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.
>>>
>>> One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
>>> append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
>>> affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
>>> examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
>>> one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
>>> that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
>>> variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
>>> have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
>>> and vague recollections. :)
>>>
>>> Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:
>>>
>>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
>>>
>>> - -- 
>>> Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
>>> ======================================================================
>>> It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
>>>     -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
>>> Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
>>>
>>> iG0EARECAC0FAkSFEpcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
>>> ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qvOwCeI6UlDJsKT3rU1+yb+4R3jlGN/xwAoOMQbGkC
>>> shq9BAzOXbbpRHIn7933
>>> =Tl7a
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Wed Jun  7 05:45:41 2006
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 23:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backup of List
Message-ID: <005e01c689e4$d94bf360$c80a0a0a@mishmash>

    One of my list managers asked if there was a way to back up and restore
the email/contents of his list.

    Can you tell me how/if that can be done?

    I heard someone say that it is.

    Regards,




Fred



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 06:00:44 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:00:44 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606061729490396e8b0f8fd@msapiro>
References: <657728f60606052142m5cb72e9av9411f23d78f36cd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606061729490396e8b0f8fd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606062100m13b2fb1dnda7d4236184cd7d1@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I have consulted both Mailman's installation manual and exim.org's
guide, So some macro names are hybrid. I've corrected them now using exim
site's guide.

But still have other problem, can't send mail to list, it return to sender
and got a message below:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
--------------------
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  mylist at lists.mysite.org <slash-chinese at lists.solidot.org>
   local delivery failed

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: ......
--------------------

What's wrong here?

Thanks!

On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >I have MAILMAN_HOME = ... in my exim main configuration file, changed to
> >MM_HOME = ...
> >But maybe it also has other problems, when sending mail to list, mailman
> >send back and says local delivery failed. I am checking now.
>
>
> The Mailman installation manual uses MAILMAN_* macro names. The
> instructions at <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf> use
> MM_* macro names.
>
> It looks like you have a hybrid. Use the instructions on the exim site.
> They are mostly the same in effect, but the exim site has a couple of
> other things correct which are not complete in the Mailman
> installation manual.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 06:40:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:40:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
In-Reply-To: <050101c689e3$7e2c6ce0$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC174020060606214014061570abf095@msapiro>

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:

>okie, i moved and almost everything is working ok...now, the current month 
> archives are not showing
> 
>Check the following:
>
>this is from May, and it showing the messages:
>
> http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-May/date.html
> 
>This is from June and is not showing any message:
>
> http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-June/date.html
>
>Any idea how to fis it?


You could probably "fix" June, but it depends on what the issue is.
I.e. what do you see when you go to the June link? Is there an
archives/private/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-June directory?, etc.

If this weren't cPanel, I'd say probably the 'best' way to fix it is to
make sure you've moved the
archives/private/mercedes.mbox/mercedes.mbox file and then run
"bin/arch --wipe mercedes" which will rebuild the entire HTML archive
including a few embedded absolute URLs that reference the old host.
Given that it is cPanel, I don't know what names would be 'mercedes'
and what names would be 'mercedes_okiebenz.com' and what other things
might go wrong in that process.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 06:51:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606062100m13b2fb1dnda7d4236184cd7d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606062151230115b107c38a@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>Yes, I have consulted both Mailman's installation manual and exim.org's
>guide, So some macro names are hybrid. I've corrected them now using exim
>site's guide.
>
>But still have other problem, can't send mail to list, it return to sender
>and got a message below:
>
>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>--------------------
>A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
>recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
>
>  mylist at lists.mysite.org <slash-chinese at lists.solidot.org>
>   local delivery failed
>
>------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------
>
>Return-path: ......
>--------------------
>
>What's wrong here?


There is still a problem in your exim.conf. Is there more detail in the
exim log (probably /var/log/exim/exim-main.log)? Without more
information, I don't know what the error is, but something is wrong in
the mailman router or transport definitions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Wed Jun  7 06:58:10 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
Message-ID: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>


 hi...

 i have a huge directory full of bounces and much of disk space left. i'll
be add a new disk soon but can i just wipe out all the bounce files under
bounces?!!

thanks...



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:10:39 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:10:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After mailing move ....
Message-ID: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>

Jun  6 22:07:21 mailserver postfix/local[3100]: D7F6F580BB: 
to=<test-list at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=SOFTBOUNCE 
(Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list")



I keep getting the above in postfix logs and my lists are not working. Is this 
due to name of the server is "mailserver" and the name of the SMTP server is 
"lists"?

Any help would be great ...

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:15:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:15:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
> i have a huge directory full of bounces and much of disk space left. i'll
>be add a new disk soon but can i just wipe out all the bounce files under
>bounces?!!


Are you talking about files in qfiles/bounces/ or files in data/ named
bounce-events-ppppp.pck?

If the former, these should be processed and deleted by BounceRunner
which it would seem is not running.

If the latter, they are all orphaned and can be removed except for the
one if any that's less than 15 minutes old and has ppppp equal to the
pid of the current BounceRunner.

See the Mailman 2.1.x information in sections 1 and 5 of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:17:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:17:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backup of List
In-Reply-To: <005e01c689e4$d94bf360$c80a0a0a@mishmash>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622173207252fb1b115@msapiro>

Fred Atkinson wrote:

>    One of my list managers asked if there was a way to back up and restore
>the email/contents of his list.


archives/private/listname* and lists/listname.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:18:20 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:18:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After mailing move ....
In-Reply-To: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>
References: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <4486619C.3090603@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Jun  6 22:07:21 mailserver postfix/local[3100]: D7F6F580BB: 
> to=<test-list at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=SOFTBOUNCE 
> (Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list")
> 
> 
> 
> I keep getting the above in postfix logs and my lists are not working. Is this 
> due to name of the server is "mailserver" and the name of the SMTP server is 
> "lists"?
> 
> Any help would be great ...
> 
> LDB
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

Clearly a path problem .. nevermind ..

Thanks for the disk space,

LDB



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 07:21:39 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:21:39 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606062151230115b107c38a@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606062100m13b2fb1dnda7d4236184cd7d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606062151230115b107c38a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606062221k4970035djf73bb7a59568f37d@mail.gmail.com>

When I sent a mail to list, the exim mainlog showed below:
-----------------
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V <= mymail at gmail.com H=(
squid2.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.2] P=esmtp S=1708 id=
41483dbd0606062215h60225a8eqd3516cf6985219ca at mail.gmail.com
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V **
mylist at lists.mysite.orgR=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
process of mailman_transport
transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oF-CX <= <> R=1FnqO7-0002oA-5V U=Debian-exim
P=local S=2554
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V Completed
2006-06-07 05:15:36 1FnqO7-0002oF-CX => mymail at gmail.com R=dnslookup
T=remote_smtp H=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [64.233.163.114]
2006-06-07 05:15:36 1FnqO7-0002oF-CX Completed
-----------------


On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >Yes, I have consulted both Mailman's installation manual and exim.org's
> >guide, So some macro names are hybrid. I've corrected them now using exim
> >site's guide.
> >
> >But still have other problem, can't send mail to list, it return to
> sender
> >and got a message below:
> >
> >This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
> >--------------------
> >A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> >recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
> >
> >  mylist at lists.mysite.org <slash-chinese at lists.solidot.org>
> >   local delivery failed
> >
> >------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------
> >
> >Return-path: ......
> >--------------------
> >
> >What's wrong here?
>
>
> There is still a problem in your exim.conf. Is there more detail in the
> exim log (probably /var/log/exim/exim-main.log)? Without more
> information, I don't know what the error is, but something is wrong in
> the mailman router or transport definitions.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:27:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:27:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After mailing move ....
In-Reply-To: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622270109282fb1b1c1@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>Jun  6 22:07:21 mailserver postfix/local[3100]: D7F6F580BB: 
>to=<test-list at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=SOFTBOUNCE 
>(Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list")
>
>
>
>I keep getting the above in postfix logs and my lists are not working. Is this 
>due to name of the server is "mailserver" and the name of the SMTP server is 
>"lists"?


No.

The wrapper /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman is dying with status 1. The
programmed exits for Mailman detected errors are all status >=2. This
could be a permissions issue or something else.

If you have a 'standard' Postfix/Mailman integration, the above command
("/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list") came from an aliases
(and aliases.db) file group owned by mailman. This means you should be
able to reproduce the error in a command shell with the commands

su mailman
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list < /dev/null

That may help you debug further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:32:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:32:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622320109432fb1b1d0@msapiro>

Paul Wise wrote:
>
>Thanks for the hint, pity it isn't already implemented. Is this
>something I should contribute if I implement it?


Sure. Post it as a patch or possibly as an implemented feature request
at <http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:46:50 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:46:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix-to-mail.py
Message-ID: <4486684A.70509@freestandards.org>

Anyone out there using the above script on SuSE 10.0 to protect
their mailing lists? I keep getting the below errors after the mailing lists move.


D67F4580B8     2239 Tue Jun  6 22:38:58  ldb at example.org
(temporary failure. Command output: exceptions.OSError [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory Line 122)
                                          test-list at lists.example.org




From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:53:15 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:53:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix-to-mail.py
In-Reply-To: <4486684A.70509@freestandards.org>
References: <4486684A.70509@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <448669CB.5010600@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Anyone out there using the above script on SuSE 10.0 to protect
> their mailing lists? I keep getting the below errors after the mailing lists move.
> 
> 
> D67F4580B8     2239 Tue Jun  6 22:38:58  ldb at example.org
> (temporary failure. Command output: exceptions.OSError [Errno 2] No such file or 
> directory Line 122)
>                                           test-list at lists.example.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

This is bad .. I am answering my questions .. OK here is what I discovered ..

On SuSE 10.0, /var/lib/mailman does contain directory called mail/ so I had
to create a soft link, "ln -s /usr/lib/mailman/mail" and that does the trick.

Is there anything else that maybe missing??

Thanks,

LDB



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun  7 07:34:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:34:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>
	<1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <p06200715c0ac155982bd@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:17 AM +0800 2006-06-07, Paul Wise wrote:

>>  > I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
>>  > interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
>>  > server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
>>  > lists associated with a mailman install.
>>
>>  It would be fairly simple to modify cron/checkdbs to do this. You could
>>  reduce the main loop to something like:
>
>  Thanks for the hint, pity it isn't already implemented. Is this
>  something I should contribute if I implement it?

	There is definitely a dearth of good command-line site/list admin 
tools available in the current version of Mailman.  There are some 
basic tools that operate at a very low level, but not really much 
that let you quickly plow through a large list.

	At least, not without requiring a web browser and some scripts to 
cut down the standard Mailman web interface to something that is more 
manageable.  But then those tools have the same dependency on the web 
server as the regular GUI admin tools, and don't really help when the 
system is so bogged down that the web server is more of a hindrance 
than a help.


	Please, do feel free to contribute any command-line tools that 
you may develop.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From shieldfire at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 07:59:04 2006
From: shieldfire at gmail.com (Martin S)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:59:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posting non-members
Message-ID: <7ad4c500606062259l79a3b5d4mccaff52c53d0fc61@mail.gmail.com>

>From time to time I get mail from non-members that should be able to post to
the list.
In the "held mail dialog" I added one of them to a filter allowing her to
post  - where can I edit this filter?
I've looked through the main admin site for the list and can't find it.
Perhaps I'm missing the bleedin obvious?


Regards,

Martin S


From kalin at el.net  Wed Jun  7 08:14:26 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:14:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>
References: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <58746.24.90.32.74.1149660866.squirrel@mail.el.net>


>
> Are you talking about files in qfiles/bounces/ or files in data/ named
> bounce-events-ppppp.pck?

the former. i don't see the BounceRunner in the mailman processes and will
start it through mailmanctl but i remember reading somewhere that that
daemon should run every 15 min?!?  by default?!

the latter are all from last year so they'll be all gone... pretty big
too....

thanks....



From kalin at el.net  Wed Jun  7 08:26:49 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <58746.24.90.32.74.1149660866.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>
	<58746.24.90.32.74.1149660866.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <65362.24.90.32.74.1149661609.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> the former. i don't see the BounceRunner in the mailman processes and will
> start it through mailmanctl but i remember reading somewhere that that
> daemon should run every 15 min?!?  by default?!

ok. i did restart the daemons. but is till don't see BounceRunner in the
ps list....

after getting rid of all the "orphaned" files i have a bit more space
available but it'll be nice to get rid of those bounces too....



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Jun  7 11:57:00 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:57:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
Message-ID: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I'm building a script to automate the installation of
multiple instances of mailman.  I need the bin/newlist to
complete its work without me answering a prompt I'll never
see, but still notify the administrator of the new list
that it has been created and is working.  

bin/newlist -q/--quiet
Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a
prompt) that their list has been created.  This option
suppresses the prompt and notification.

Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
hacking on the python code underneath? 

-- 
Hugh Esco 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Jun  7 11:57:20 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: Distutils is not available or is
 incomplete for /usr/bin/python
In-Reply-To: <20060606182151.e7e361f3.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060606182151.e7e361f3.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <20060607025720.8c93eb7e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

That's a never mind.  
I uninstalled the python 2.4 packages and reinstalled
everything as 2.3 and its now running w/o errors, through
that step. 

Thanks anyway, 
-- Hugh

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:21:51 -0700
Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:

> My firts attempts to build mailman on a new server are
> throwing the errors shown below.  Can anyone here please
> advise me what it is I'm missing?  Thanks, 
> 
> -- Hugh 
> 
> This is a Debian machine running: 
> 
> hesco at motherjones:~$ dpkg -l | grep python
> ii  python         2.3.5-2        An interactive high-level
> object-oriented la 
> 
> ii  python-newt    0.51.6-20      A NEWT
> module for Python 
> 
> ii  python2.3      2.3.5-3sarge1  An
> interactive high-level object-oriented la 
> 
> ii  python2.4      2.4.1-2        An interactive high-level
> object-oriented la 
> 
> ii  python2.4-dev  2.4.1-2        Header files and a static
> library for Python 
> 
> ii  python2.4-setu 0.0.1.041214-1 Python Distutils
> Enhancements 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> motherjones:/var/mm/e/el06/mailman-2.1.8# ./mm_configure.sh
> loading cache ./config.cache
> checking for --with-python... no
> checking for python... /usr/bin/python
> checking Python interpreter... /usr/bin/python
> checking Python version... 2.3.5
> checking that Python has a working distutils... configure:
> error:
> 
> ***** Distutils is not available or is incomplete
> for /usr/bin/python 
> 
> ***** If you installed Python from RPM (or other package
> manager) 
> 
> ***** be sure to install the -devel package, or
> install Python 
> 
> ***** from source.  See README.LINUX for
> details ./mm_configure.sh: line 2:
> 
> --with-python=/usr/bin/python: No such file or
> directory ./mm_configure.sh: line 3: 
> 
> --with-username=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 4: 
> 
> --with-groupname=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 5: 
> 
> --with-mail-gid=104: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 6: 
> 
> --with-cgi-gid=33: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 7: 
> 
> --with-mailhost=us.example.org: command not
> found ./mm_configure.sh: line 8:
> 
> --with-urlhost=us.example.org: command not found
> 
> -- 
> Hugh Esco 
> RCK Computer Services 
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/he%40reclaimedcomputers.ca
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


-- 
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Wed Jun  7 13:13:37 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:13:37 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If the messages in the 'out' queue are static (i.e. older ones don't
> get processed and disappear), OutgoingRunner must not be running.
>
>   
# ps -ef | grep -i qrunner | grep -v grep
mailman   3960  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3961  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3962  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3963  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3964  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3965  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3966  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3967  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

When stop mailman service, the messages in /var/spool/mailman/out disappear.
Start the mailman, appear any messages(03) with date 02/06/2006 and 02 
messages from 05/06/2006.

What's happening?
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
>   
I follow this  FAQ and  nothing wrong.

One of the list is delaying 02 hours to deliver the messages, and is 
exactly this that has the messages of 02/06/2006 and 05/06/2006 in the 
dir /var/spool/mailman/out.

Any ideia ?

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From danielbk at ornl.gov  Wed Jun  7 16:21:03 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:21:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

My email to the teslist at domain.gov is still not getting to the users.  Some background: testlist has 4 members (dud1, dud2, dud3, dud4), Mailman and Sendmail are on domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, Sun Messenger is on domainmta1.domainpriv.gov.  The domainmta1 server has access to the internet, the domainwcs1 server does not.  Sun Messenger uses LDAP entries for the testlist, testlist-owner, testlist-subscribe, etc which redirects the testlist email to the domainwcs1 server.  It looks like the email gets to Mailman and Mailman sends out 4 email to the correct users but the user email addresses are not recognized or something because they bounce.  I must have some silly configuration error.  I am using /etc/aliases and I have added the appropriate aliases and executed the newaliases script.  Here are some relevent files excerpts.
 
/etc/mail/mailertable
leo.gov                 mailman:leowcs1.leopriv.gov
 
/etc/mail/virtualusertable
## Place mailing list virtual mappings here
testlist at domain.gov                        testlist
testlist-admin at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-admin at leo.gov>                   testlist-admin
testlist-bounces at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-bounces at leo.gov>                 testlist-bounces
testlist-confirm at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-confirm at leo.gov>                 testlist-confirm
testlist-join at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-join at leo.gov>                    testlist-join
testlist-leave at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-leave at leo.gov>                   testlist-leave
testlist-owner at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-owner at leo.gov>                   testlist-owner
testlist-request at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-request at leo.gov>                 testlist-request
testlist-subscribe at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-subscribe at leo.gov>               testlist-subscribe
testlist-unsubscribe at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-unsubscribe at leo.gov>             testlist-unsubscribe
##
mailman at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:mailman at listserv.leo.gov>                 mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
mailman-owner at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at listserv.leo.gov>           mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
##
MAILER-DAEMON at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:MAILER-DAEMON at listserv.leo.gov>           mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
postmaster at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:postmaster at listserv.leo.gov>              mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
webmaster at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:webmaster at listserv.leo.gov>               mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
abuse at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:abuse at listserv.leo.gov>                   sun-admin at domain.gov <mailto:sun-admin at leo.gov> 
root at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:root at listserv.leo.gov>                    sun-admin at domain.gov
 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailman-icons/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov'
MAILMAN_OWNER = 'mailman-owner@%s' %  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 0
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_VOLUME_FREQUENCY = 1
DEFAULT_DIGEST_VOLUME_FREQUENCY = 1
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private'
DELIVERED_BY_URL = '/mailman-icons/mailman.jpg'
DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 0
DEFAULT_MODERATED = 1
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
DEFAULT_SEND_WELCOME_MSG = 0
DEFAULT_ANONYMOUS_LIST = 1
DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 2
DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = 0
VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {}
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('domain.gov', DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

 
 
/usr/local/mailman/log/smtp
Jun 07 09:28:34 2006 (2096) <fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov> smtp to testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.105 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.068 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:38 2006 (2096) <mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.084 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at leomta.leopriv.gov> > smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.090 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at leomta.leopriv.gov> > smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.094 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at leomta.leopriv.gov> > smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds

 
/var/mail/maillog
Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4490]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: from=<dud1 at domain.gov <mailto:dud1 at leo.gov> >, size=1806, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<fa3eb410418
1.44869c3f at domain.gov <mailto:1.44869c3f at leo.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=domainmta1.domainpriv.gov [10.31.162.9]
Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4492]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: to=<testlist at domain.gov <mailto:testlist at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailma
n, pri=121806, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:34 domainwcs1 sendmail[4495]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: from=<testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> >, size=2990, class=-30, nr
cpts=4, msgid=<fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov <mailto:fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at leo.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZYg
004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004499 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4500]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004500 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud3 at domain.gov <mailto:dud3 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZUR
004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004505 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4506]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004506 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud2 at domain.gov <mailto:dud2 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZoI
004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004511 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4501]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4512]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004512 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud1 at domain.gov <mailto:dud1 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZdU
004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004517 at leops.domainpriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4507]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4518]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004518 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud4 at domain.gov <mailto:dud4 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4513]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at wcs1.domainpriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:36 domainwcs1 sendmail[4519]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Mon 6/5/2006 2:04 PM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
> My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
> do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.


What's in your aliases file? There should be 10 entries for each list
that look similar to the following excerpt for the 'mailman' list

  mailman:             "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
  mailman-admin:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
  mailman-bounces:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
  mailman-confirm:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
  mailman-join:        "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
  mailman-leave:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
  mailman-owner:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
  mailman-request:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
  mailman-subscribe:   "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
  mailman-unsubscribe: "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

Without these, those local addresses won't be piped to Mailman.


> /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp
>
> May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds


This looks like an actual post was sent to 4 recipients.



> "/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters
>
> May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
> <mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds


This and all the subsequent ones look like the "nn testlist moderator
requests waiting" message sent to the testlist-owner address at 8:00
a.m. daily, but it is not being received at the testlist-owner address
and piped back to mailman for delivery to the actual owner


> /var/log/maillog
>
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> size=2214, class=-60,
>
> nrcpts=1,
> msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
> relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
> Ok.)


But it is sent somewhere - maybe /var/spool/mail/testlist-owner?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 16:31:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:31:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606062221k4970035djf73bb7a59568f37d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606070731040000518fc524@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>When I sent a mail to list, the exim mainlog showed below:
>-----------------
>2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V **
>mylist at lists.mysite.orgR=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
>process of mailman_transport
>transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

Status 2 is a group mismatch error. I don't know why exim didn't also
return the error message in its failure notice, but basically, the
group that exim is using to invoke the wrapper
(/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman) is not the group the wrapper is
configured to expect.

The exim group is defined in exim.conf as MM_GID if you're following
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf - default
MM_GID=mailman.

The expected group was defined by Mailman's configure --with-mail-gid
option - see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node7.html>.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for a more detailed explanation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 16:43:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:43:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <65362.24.90.32.74.1149661609.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606070743560171518fc603@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>> the former. i don't see the BounceRunner in the mailman processes and will
>> start it through mailmanctl but i remember reading somewhere that that
>> daemon should run every 15 min?!?  by default?!


That was Mailman 2.0.x. Mailman 2.1 uses the mailmanctl daemon instead.


>ok. i did restart the daemons. but is till don't see BounceRunner in the
>ps list....


Did you do this cleanly? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>

There is some problem with BounceRunner. What's in Mailman's qrunner
log and error log?

BTW, if those bounces in qfiles/bounces are old, you can just delete
them (one of them may be the problem). In fact, it would be a good
idea after resolving your original BounceRunner problem to just remove
the qfiles/bounces/ directory itself and let Mailman recreate it in
order to "shrink" it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 16:59:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:59:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:

>I'm building a script to automate the installation of
>multiple instances of mailman.  I need the bin/newlist to
>complete its work without me answering a prompt I'll never
>see, but still notify the administrator of the new list
>that it has been created and is working.  
>
>bin/newlist -q/--quiet
>Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a
>prompt) that their list has been created.  This option
>suppresses the prompt and notification.
>
>Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
>hacking on the python code underneath? 


I don't think so. What you want seems reasonable and should be
available with newlist, but currently isn't.

You'll have to remove the two lines that issue the prompt and read the
response.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 17:05:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:05:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
	<4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <4486EB25.8050709@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:

> # ps -ef | grep -i qrunner | grep -v grep
> mailman   3960  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3961  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3962  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3963  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3964  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3965  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3966  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3967  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
> 
> When stop mailman service, the messages in /var/spool/mailman/out disappear.
> Start the mailman, appear any messages(03) with date 02/06/2006 and 02 
> messages from 05/06/2006.
> 
> What's happening?


I think the messages are perhaps being retried and are moving back and 
forth between the out gueue and retry queue.


> One of the list is delaying 02 hours to deliver the messages, and is 
> exactly this that has the messages of 02/06/2006 and 05/06/2006 in the 
> dir /var/spool/mailman/out.


There is some issue between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. See Mailman's 
'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs and the MTA logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 17:26:09 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:26:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posting non-members
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500606062259l79a3b5d4mccaff52c53d0fc61@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ad4c500606062259l79a3b5d4mccaff52c53d0fc61@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606070826lc782078xaefdd8dd1d9da47b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Martin S <shieldfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> >From time to time I get mail from non-members that should be able to post to
> the list.
> In the "held mail dialog" I added one of them to a filter allowing her to
> post  - where can I edit this filter?

Check 'accept_these_nonmembers' on Privacy Options > Sender filters in
the Admin screen.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From Muhammad at tajdeed.net  Wed Jun  7 17:49:52 2006
From: Muhammad at tajdeed.net (Muhammad Al-Massari)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:49:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go
References: <PC17402006060618482409592edba657@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>

How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go

Thanks very much Mark

I corrected that stupid default. But much damage is already done in the past. 

How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go. Doing it one by one is a real NIGHTMARE!!!

(I have two other big lists too ... to be modified also!)

Muhammad Al-Massari

Muhammad at tajdeed.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Muhammad Al-Massari" <Muhammad at tajdeed.net>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list


Muhammad Al-Massari wrote:

>WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list


Because most of your members are hidden, probably because you've set
that as the default for new  members.

>Could any one out there advise what to do (or: not to do) to obtain the full list??!! 


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at videonetwork.org  Wed Jun  7 19:01:10 2006
From: lists at videonetwork.org (Ben Edwards (lists))
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:01:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating configuration
Message-ID: <1149699671.6795.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have managed to move mail archives by copying the mailbox file and
using:

bin/arch --wipe new-list

and exporting/bulk subscribing users works fine.

However how do I move the configuration?




From david at deltanetco.com  Wed Jun  7 19:41:25 2006
From: david at deltanetco.com (david meltzer)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:41:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question about how to mailman sends out bulk
	emails
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAcKyKy1EhvE+rp3gliac4eMKAAAAQAAAAGZV5HwNgdUO1CbNguKBcLgEAAAAA@deltanetco.com>

hello and thanks for reading this,
i am a computer volunteer for the goodwill rescue mission in newark,nj www.grmnewark.org

i tried to find out via the faq and list archives but i could not find an answer to the following
question.

we need to be able to send out a mail list to about 5000 donors.
our isp allows an unlimited number of outgoing emails but each email can have upto 50 email
addresses.

can i get mailman send out 100 emails with 50 users each?

can i get mailman to send out 5000 emails one by one?
if so, can i throttle the email per minute?

also, i do not need the overhead of forcing people to 'join' the group.
i want to just have some kind of flat file database with the list of people the mailing should goto.
is this doable?


thanks,
dave

------------------------------------------
and the geek shall inherit the earth
verse 0:0 from the chronicles of yoyomeltz




From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Wed Jun  7 20:13:48 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:13:48 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4486EB25.8050709@value.net>
References: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
	<4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br> <4486EB25.8050709@value.net>
Message-ID: <4487175C.4040206@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi, Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
> I think the messages are perhaps being retried and are moving back and 
> forth between the out gueue and retry queue.
Exactly.
>> One of the list is delaying 02 hours to deliver the messages, and is 
>> exactly this that has the messages of 02/06/2006 and 05/06/2006 in 
>> the dir /var/spool/mailman/out.
> There is some issue between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. See 
> Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs and the MTA logs.
I stop the mailman and remove the queue messages from 
/var/spool/mailman/out and /var/spool/mailman/retry, the listname come 
back function.
Restart mailman e SOLVED....

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis


-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 20:49:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:49:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question about how to mailman sends out
	bulk emails
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAcKyKy1EhvE+rp3gliac4eMKAAAAQAAAAGZV5HwNgdUO1CbNguKBcLgEAAAAA@deltanetco.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAcKyKy1EhvE+rp3gliac4eMKAAAAQAAAAGZV5HwNgdUO1CbNguKBcLgEAAAAA@deltanetco.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071149v775e725bp2cb999d17f789c52@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, david meltzer <david at deltanetco.com> wrote:
> can i get mailman send out 100 emails with 50 users each?
Yes, just set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in your mm_cfg.py to 50.

> can i get mailman to send out 5000 emails one by one?
Sure. Set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 1, and/or enable full personalization.

> if so, can i throttle the email per minute?
No, but your MTA can. However, that's not a mailman question.

> also, i do not need the overhead of forcing people to 'join' the group.
> i want to just have some kind of flat file database with the list of people the mailing should goto.
> is this doable?
Yes, you can mass subscribe a list of members.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 20:55:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:55:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating configuration
In-Reply-To: <1149699671.6795.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1149699671.6795.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071155q339dd646yd8fd4add4416bb8c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Ben Edwards (lists) <lists at videonetwork.org> wrote:
> However how do I move the configuration?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 20:57:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:57:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go
In-Reply-To: <00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>
References: <PC17402006060618482409592edba657@msapiro>
	<00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071157y6dbd4e27u1e145e5301337bbc@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Muhammad Al-Massari <Muhammad at tajdeed.net> wrote:
> How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go

If you have shell access, you can use a withlist script.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 21:04:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:04:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>
References: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
> >hacking on the python code underneath?
>
>
> I don't think so. What you want seems reasonable and should be
> available with newlist, but currently isn't.
>

Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
not prompt, but still notify.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From mcnutt at utk.edu  Wed Jun  7 21:31:00 2006
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt, William R)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:31:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
Message-ID: <6A5CE13D731DE249BC61CB8C5C474B0A0566531C@UTKFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>

This is a new one on me:
I have created a new list (cmats-oc at mysite.edu).  
I've checked my aliases file and run newaliases.   When members or
non-members 
send e-mail to the list, they get the following message:

Bill

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

      Subject:	Test
      Sent:	6/7/2006 2:28 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

      cmats-oc at cls.coe.utk.edu on 6/7/2006 2:28 PM
            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
directly to find out the correct address.
            <utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1
<cmatsoc at cls.coe.utk.edu>... User unknown>


Bill McNutt
CTO
UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu




From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 22:01:19 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 04:01:19 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606070731040000518fc524@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606062221k4970035djf73bb7a59568f37d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606070731040000518fc524@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606071301m4477374en53d08c3a11b7e0b6@mail.gmail.com>

When checked mail.log I found this message below:

Jun  7 10:30:18 solidot Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman
expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but the
system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-run
configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

Just like you said the mail-gid mismatch. I've re run configure and changed
mail-gid to 'mailman', now mailman works fine.

Thanks for your help!

Jesse

On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >When I sent a mail to list, the exim mainlog showed below:
> >-----------------
> >2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V **
> >mylist at lists.mysite.orgR=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
> >process of mailman_transport
> >transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>
> Status 2 is a group mismatch error. I don't know why exim didn't also
> return the error message in its failure notice, but basically, the
> group that exim is using to invoke the wrapper
> (/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman) is not the group the wrapper is
> configured to expect.
>
> The exim group is defined in exim.conf as MM_GID if you're following
> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf - default
> MM_GID=mailman.
>
> The expected group was defined by Mailman's configure --with-mail-gid
> option - see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node7.html>.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
> for a more detailed explanation.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 01:55:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:55:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <20060607163355.f5dc5f76.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060607163355.f5dc5f76.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071655he7dc999pe663fa85a4eb1c49@mail.gmail.com>

It's not a .tar.bz2, just a .bz2

cd foo/bin (wherever mailman's scripts, i.e. newlist, reside)
bunzip2 ~/newlist-auto.patch.bz2
patch -p1 < ~/newlist-auto.patch.bz2

Season to taste.

- Patrick Bogen

On 6/7/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> Mr. Bogen:
>
> That sounds like just the thing I need.
>
> However my tar doesn't like your bz2.
>
> It look fairly short.  Do you suppose you could send this
> to me in plain text?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Hugh
>
> tar xjvf newlist-auto.patch.bz2
> tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers
> tar: This does not look like a tar archive
> tar: Skipping to next header
> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:04:49 -0500
> "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > > >Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
> > > >hacking on the python code underneath?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think so. What you want seems reasonable and should be
> > > available with newlist, but currently isn't.
> > >
> >
> > Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
> > RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
> > not prompt, but still notify.
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Patrick Bogen
> >
>
>
> --
> Hugh Esco
> 250-352-9361
> he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
> RCK Computer Services
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 02:00:36 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:00:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
In-Reply-To: <6A5CE13D731DE249BC61CB8C5C474B0A0566531C@UTKFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <6A5CE13D731DE249BC61CB8C5C474B0A0566531C@UTKFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071700r79723196le83a5abc46f1c45c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, McNutt, William R <mcnutt at utk.edu> wrote:
> Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>
>       Subject:  Test
>       Sent:     6/7/2006 2:28 PM
>
> The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>       cmats-oc at cls.coe.utk.edu on 6/7/2006 2:28 PM
>             The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
> message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
> directly to find out the correct address.
>             <utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1
> <cmatsoc at cls.coe.utk.edu>... User unknown>

Hmm. Further along in the bounce mail, it says that
'cmatsoc at cls.coe.utk.edu' is unknown, although the email was sent to
cmats-oc at . Is this a typo, or is the MTA doing something weird with
hyphens?

Assuming that's just a typo...

Do other lists on this box work? Are you sure the aliases are in the
right place (and are you sure your MTA is configured to make use of
them?)

A bad alias configuration is at the very top of my list for this
issue. There's really no other reason this should be failing, since
Mailman itself cannot generate such an error (as far as I know.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 05:19:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:19:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go
In-Reply-To: <00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060720192605152bc8b03d@msapiro>

Muhammad Al-Massari
>
>How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go. Doing it one by one is a real NIGHTMARE!!!
>
>(I have two other big lists too ... to be modified also!)


Patrick has already replied that you can do this with bin/withlist if
you have shell access to your Mailman installation, but I suspect you
don't or you'd be using bin/list_members in the first place, and this
wouldn't be an issue.

Assuming you don't have shell access, I'd use the
mailman-subscribers.py script referred to in the FAQ I mentioned
before -
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
- to obtain a .csv repersentation of the admin Membership list pages
and then import that into a spreadsheet and make a list of those
member addresses that are 'hidden'. Then I'd go to
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb> (also
mentioned in the FAQ) and get Jim Tittsler's unhide.py script and run
it with the appropriate modifications to the URL and list password and
the hidden member list as input.

Both these scripts will be slow for a 20,000 member list because of the
sheer volume of http transactions involved, but if you don't have
direct shell access to the Mailman installation, it beats doing it by
hand.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 05:35:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:35:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating configuration
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606071155q339dd646yd8fd4add4416bb8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060720354107342bc8b127@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/7/06, Ben Edwards (lists) <lists at videonetwork.org> wrote:
>> However how do I move the configuration?
>
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp


Unfortunately, this FAQ is in need of some revision/expansion (it's on
my list, but if anyone wants to take a stab at it, please do).

You have two choices to move the config. Either write the old config
with bin/config_list -o and import it to the new list with
bin/config_list -i, or (assuming you don't have a custom member
adaptor that stores member info outside of the list object) move the
list config, membership, passwords, member options, etc. all at once
simply by moving lists/<listname>/config.pck (and maybe any custom
templates in lists/<listname>/<lang>/).

If the source is pre-2.1.0, move the config.db, and if there's a
config.pck and a config.pck.last in the new lists/<listname>/
directory, remove them or move them aside or the config.db will be
ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Thu Jun  8 05:35:52 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 23:35:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLs in mailman after move
Message-ID: <44879B18.4030504@freestandards.org>

In moving from Debian to SuSE 10.0, the mailing lists' links like,

http://lists.example.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/test-list

do not work anymore because the actual link on the new server is

http://lists.example.org/mailman/admindb/test-list


I can take care of this via apache but there has to be a way to
do it via mailman.

Thanks,

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 05:49:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:49:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLs in mailman after move
In-Reply-To: <44879B18.4030504@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060720495106871bb57002@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>In moving from Debian to SuSE 10.0, the mailing lists' links like,
>
>http://lists.example.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/test-list
>
>do not work anymore because the actual link on the new server is
>
>http://lists.example.org/mailman/admindb/test-list
>
>
>I can take care of this via apache but there has to be a way to
>do it via mailman.


If necessary (probably shouldn't be), set the correct
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py.

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

is the default, and that should be correct.

Then run fix_url on all the lists - see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 06:10:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:10:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
>RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
>not prompt, but still notify.


Cool! Thank you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 06:17:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:17:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606071700r79723196le83a5abc46f1c45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060721174505468e70f5ef@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/7/06, McNutt, William R <mcnutt at utk.edu> wrote:
<snip>
>>             <utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1


Is utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu the MTA on the Mailman machine or is it
some MX MTA further upstream that also has to be told about the
cmats-oc at cls.coe.utk.edu address?


>A bad alias configuration is at the very top of my list for this
>issue. There's really no other reason this should be failing, since
>Mailman itself cannot generate such an error (as far as I know.)


Right. That bounce came from an MTA - Mailman never saw the post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 08:04:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 23:04:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
>  
> /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp
> Jun 07 09:28:34 2006 (2096) <fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov> smtp to testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

Your post was sent to 4 recipients.


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.105 seconds


Note: in the above and in what follows I have tried to remove (for 
readability) the 
<mailto:mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> and 
similar 'mailto:' links added by your MUA.

3 seconds later a single, mailman generated message was sent - maybe a 
notice to the list owner?


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.068 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:38 2006 (2096) <mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.084 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.090 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.094 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds


and another for a total of 7 Mailman generated messages, each to a 
single recipient?


> /var/mail/maillog
> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4490]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: from=<dud1 at domain.gov>, size=1806, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<fa3eb410418
> 1.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=domainmta1.domainpriv.gov [10.31.162.9]


The original post is received by the MTA


> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4492]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: to=<testlist at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailma
> n, pri=121806, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and delivered to testlist at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:34 domainwcs1 sendmail[4495]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: from=<testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov>, size=2990, class=-30, nr
> cpts=4, msgid=<fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


The post is received from Mailman for 4 recipients.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZYg
> 004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost


Some other message is received by the MTA from root at localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4500]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


and relayed to localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004500 Message accepted for delivery
> )


and accepted for delivery to testlist-bounces, so it appears to be a 
bounce (last 3 entries)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud3 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


The original message for 4 recipients (k57DSY8Z004495) is sent to 
dud3 at domain.gov (but this may refer to the bounce)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZUR
> 004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4506]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004506 Message accepted for delivery
> )


And another bounce relayed and accepted for delivery


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud2 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another 'Sent' to dud2 at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZoI
> 004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4501]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4512]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004512 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud1 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Another set of 4 culminating in a 'Sent' to dud1 at domain.gov, but here 
there is an additional entry (second of 5) which is actual delivery of 
the first bounce to the mailman wrapper.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZdU
> 004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4507]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4518]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004518 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud4 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another, now familiar set, I think the generation of the bounce of 
dud4 at domain.gov plus the delivery to mailman of the second bounce.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4513]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:36 domainwcs1 sendmail[4519]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and finally, the delivery to Mailman of the last two bounces.

So mailman is sending the post to dud1 at domain.gov, dud2 at domain.gov, 
dud3 at domain.gov and dud4 at domain.gov, the MTA is accepting the post and 
then ultimately bouncing all 4 addresses. This is an MTA configuration 
or other issue. The MTA (Sendmail) either can't deliver to these 
addresses or won't relay to them from localhost. This doesn't appear to 
be a Mailman issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From peter.adams at umb.edu  Thu Jun  8 14:27:20 2006
From: peter.adams at umb.edu (Peter C.S. Adams)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:27:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060721174505468e70f5ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0AD8FE8.27200%peter.adams@umb.edu>

Thus spake Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>, circa 6/8/2006 12:17 AM:
> That bounce came from an MTA - Mailman never saw the post.

Perhaps the machine running Mailman lacks an MX record in its DNS entry and
the MTA can't deliver mail to it?

     peter




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 16:19:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 07:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <52443.24.90.32.74.1149771945.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>from the qrunner log:
>Nov 15 17:00:14 2005 (2584) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart
>limit of 10, not restarting.
>
>what's this thing about maximum restart limit?!


What's in the log prior to this for the 10 deaths that required restart?

The idea is the master mailmanctl daemon watches the qrunner processes
and if one dies (for some, but not all reasons), the master restarts
it, but once it reaches the limit of 10 (coded in mailmanctl), it
stops the restarting on the theory that this is a "hard error" and we
don't want to loop forever on it.


>that's the last record before the entry of the new restart. right now it's
>running..
>
>now there is this huge and growing bounce-events-.pck file thought. i
>guess at some point the bouncer will process it?


Bounce runner processes the queued bounces, but rather than processing
them as they come and going through the list lock, load and save
process for each bounce, they are stored in the bounce-events-.pck and
that in turn is processed once every (default, controlled by
REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY) 15 minutes in list order so the list is only
locked, loaded and saved once.

I still don't know what the underlying issue is, possibly you have so
many bounces that the bounce-events-.pck reaches some size limitation.
What does the 'qrunner' log say about the deaths? What's in the
'error' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 16:24:43 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:24:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to connect my server to mailman?
In-Reply-To: <e335b7a20606061450q60ecf24k929069ab875f60ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e335b7a20606061450q60ecf24k929069ab875f60ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606080724h595060c9r47d936af5f50af97@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/6/06, Amir Helzer <amir.helzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> My server has user lists and other information in its own database, and I
> want to use mailman for mass email distribution (which my hosting forbids me
> to do on the website server). So, I want my cgi-bin scripts to be able to do
> management operations for my mailman lists, e.g.:
> * Subscribe new users, so that they don't even need to reply to ack (they
> already did it on my server)
> * Subscribe news users so that the need to reply to mailman's subscription
> email.
> * Remove users from the list
>

You should be able to craft POST data which can then be sent to your
mailman server's admin pages. Essentially, simulate data entry into,
e.g., the mass subscribe field, etc.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Thu Jun  8 18:23:54 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:23:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060608092354.2bd93001.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Mr. Sapiro:  

Any chance that might make it to the code base, or should I
hang on to this and simply patch everything that comes my
way?  

-- Hugh 

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:10:26 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> >
> >Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
> >RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
> >not prompt, but still notify.
> 
> 
> Cool! Thank you.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 18:29:42 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:29:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <20060608092354.2bd93001.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>
	<20060608092354.2bd93001.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606080929p6b83b8den2ca14b23ab380e2d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> Mr. Sapiro:
>
> Any chance that might make it to the code base, or should I
> hang on to this and simply patch everything that comes my
> way?

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1502441&group_id=103&atid=300103

It's been applied for 2.2. You'll still need to patch manually until
then, I think.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ookami at gmx.de  Thu Jun  8 19:01:20 2006
From: ookami at gmx.de (wolfgang pauli)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 19:01:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cronjobs (/bin/sh: mailman: command not found)
Message-ID: <20060608170120.31140@gmx.net>

Hi,

I had problems getting the cronjobs to work until I found something that looks like an error in the docs to me.
It says do "% crontab -u mailman crontab.in" to set up your cronjobs. But the crontab.in file includes cron commands like:
0 8 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

So it results in the error msg (email):
Subject: [Mailman Site List] Cron <mailman at grey> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
Body: /bin/sh: mailman: command not found

I fixed that my removing "mailman" from all commands in crontab.in. E.g.:
0 8 * * * /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

-- 


Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 19:25:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:25:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cronjobs (/bin/sh: mailman: command not found)
In-Reply-To: <20060608170120.31140@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060810251706714f288c70@msapiro>

wolfgang pauli wrote:
>
>I had problems getting the cronjobs to work until I found something that looks like an error in the docs to me.
>It says do "% crontab -u mailman crontab.in" to set up your cronjobs. But the crontab.in file includes cron commands like:
>0 8 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
>So it results in the error msg (email):
>Subject: [Mailman Site List] Cron <mailman at grey> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
>Body: /bin/sh: mailman: command not found
>
>I fixed that my removing "mailman" from all commands in crontab.in. E.g.:
>0 8 * * * /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs


You are dealing with someone's package and your issue is with the
packager, not with Mailman's documentation.

The standard GNU Mailman distribution crontab.in is intended to be
installed as you describe which puts it in /var/spool/cron/mailman and
it does NOT contain the extra 'mailman user' field because it is
always run as the user that installed it.

The crontab.in you have with the mailman user field is intended by the
packager who created it to be installed in /etc/cron.d/ as perhaps
/etc/cron.d/mailman. In this location it needs the user field to
specify the user to run as.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Thu Jun  8 21:49:08 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 15:49:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>
References: <52443.24.90.32.74.1149771945.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>

> I still don't know what the underlying issue is, possibly you have so
> many bounces that the bounce-events-.pck reaches some size limitation.
> What does the 'qrunner' log say about the deaths? What's in the
> 'error' log.


well BounceRunner died apparently short after i restarted everything
again. from the qrunner log:

Jun 08 06:00:57 2006 (7641) BounceRunner qrunner started.
........................................................
Jun 08 06:30:52 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 7641, sig: 9, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jun 08 06:31:05 2006 (8048) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Jun 08 06:43:12 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 8048, sig: 11, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jun 08 06:43:16 2006 (8159) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 8159, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
.................(repeated 10 time i guess).........................
Jun 08 06:44:14 2006 (7639) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart
limit of 10, not restarting.



the output from the error log for the same times is a bit longer so i'm
attaching it. there are no other error log after these...

thanks...




From kalin at el.net  Thu Jun  8 21:56:56 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 15:56:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <52443.24.90.32.74.1149771945.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>
	<52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <57932.24.90.32.74.1149796616.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> the output from the error log for the same times is a bit longer so i'm
> attaching it.

i guess no attachments.... ok.... here it is:

Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      main()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 230, in main
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      qrunner.run()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg =
email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
message_from_string
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return Parser(_class,
strict=strict).parsestr(s)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 61, in parse
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      root = self._class()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 46, in __init__
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      email.Message.Message.__init__(self)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): AttributeError :  'tuple' object has
no attribute 'Message'
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      main()
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 217, in main
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 106, in make_qrunner
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      __import__(modulename)
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      from Mailman import Utils
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      cre =
re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if not
sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      main()
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 217, in main
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 106, in make_qrunner
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      __import__(modulename)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 24, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEText.py", line 8, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMENonMultipart
import MIMENonMultipart
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMENonMultipart.py", line 8, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import MIMEBase
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEBase.py", line 7, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Message
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 15, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Utils
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 123, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      ecre = re.compile(r'''
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 225, in _compile
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_compile.compile(pattern,
flags)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 496, in compile
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_parse.parse(p, flags)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 665, in parse
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = _parse_sub(source, pattern, 0)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 308, in _parse_sub
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      itemsappend(_parse(source, state))
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 398, in _parse
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      if this in WHITESPACE:
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): TypeError :  iterable argument required
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      main()
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 217, in main
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 106, in make_qrunner
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      __import__(modulename)
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      from Mailman import Utils
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      cre =
re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if not
sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types






From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 22:13:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:13:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060813135405154f288bf9@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>> I still don't know what the underlying issue is, possibly you have so
>> many bounces that the bounce-events-.pck reaches some size limitation.
>> What does the 'qrunner' log say about the deaths? What's in the
>> 'error' log.
>
>
>well BounceRunner died apparently short after i restarted everything
>again. from the qrunner log:
>
>Jun 08 06:30:52 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 7641, sig: 9, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


sig 9 is a SIGKILL ?


>Jun 08 06:31:05 2006 (8048) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>Jun 08 06:43:12 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 8048, sig: 11, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


Sig 11 is a segment violation.


>the output from the error log for the same times is a bit longer so i'm
>attaching it. there are no other error log after these...

See next reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 22:39:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:39:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <57932.24.90.32.74.1149796616.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606081339160234f3a5a4da@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>i guess no attachments.... ok.... here it is:
>
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      main()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 230, in main
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      qrunner.run()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg, msgdata =
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg =
>email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
>message_from_string
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return Parser(_class,
>strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
>headersonly=headersonly)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
>firstbodyline)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
>headersonly=headersonly)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 61, in parse
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      root = self._class()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 46, in __init__
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      email.Message.Message.__init__(self)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): AttributeError :  'tuple' object has
>no attribute 'Message'



>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      main()
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 217, in main
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 106, in make_qrunner
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      __import__(modulename)
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      from Mailman import Utils
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      cre =
>re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if not
>sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
>be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types



>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      main()
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 217, in main
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 106, in make_qrunner
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      __import__(modulename)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 24, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEText.py", line 8, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMENonMultipart
>import MIMENonMultipart
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMENonMultipart.py", line 8, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import MIMEBase
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEBase.py", line 7, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Message
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 15, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Utils
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 123, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      ecre = re.compile(r'''
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 225, in _compile
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_compile.compile(pattern,
>flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 496, in compile
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_parse.parse(p, flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 665, in parse
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = _parse_sub(source, pattern, 0)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 308, in _parse_sub
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      itemsappend(_parse(source, state))
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 398, in _parse
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      if this in WHITESPACE:
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): TypeError :  iterable argument required



>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      main()
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 217, in main
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 106, in make_qrunner
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      __import__(modulename)
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      from Mailman import Utils
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      cre =
>re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if not
>sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
>be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types



There are four separate tracebacks above (I added a little whitespace
between them) and three distinct errors, all of which seem to be a
result of python internal data being clobbered.

Previously, I guessed this may have something to do with the sheer
volume of bounces in the bounce queue at this point. I still think
this is likely.

Here is my suggestion.

Stop Mailman - bin/mailmanctl stop

Abandon all the old queued bounces and remove the bounces queue to
shrink it - rm -rf qfiles/bounces

Remove the orphaned  bounce-events-*.pck files - rm
data/bounce-events-*.pck

Start Mailman - bin/mailmanctl start

Then go to
http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/trunk/mailman/contrib/
and download the latest 'mmdsr' and 'README.mmdsr' (If you have
Mailman 2.1.8, the latest version is in your contrib/ directory).

Install mmdsr and set up a cron to run it, so you can catch these kinds
of situations in the future before they become disastrous.
.
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu  Fri Jun  9 00:29:12 2006
From: oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu (Jennifer Oxelson)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 16:29:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] determine the sender's email address?
Message-ID: <4488A4B8.7010400@unidata.ucar.edu>

Hello,

How does Mailman recognize/determine the sender's email address?  E.g., 
FROM, REPLY-TO, RECEIVED, etc?

I see a similar question was asked before, but it appears that it was 
never answered:
[Mailman-Users] Recognize REPLY-TO as a subscribed user?
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-January/009105.html

Also, has anyone ever encountered any issues with spoofing when 
configuring the sender filters of a list to accept/reject addresses via 
a specified domain?  E.g., Mailman FAQ Entry #3.33:  How do I accept or 
reject all addresses from a particular domain?  
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.033.htp)

Thanks





From lhaynes at cherokeek12.org  Fri Jun  9 01:17:14 2006
From: lhaynes at cherokeek12.org (Lee Haynes)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
Message-ID: <IOEBJHNHGHJEPOGFKOFNKELOCKAA.lhaynes@cherokeek12.org>

When an email is posted to a list or Mailman generates an email, the message
is never delivered, and I receive an error in smtp-failure:

Low level smtp error: (60, 'Operation timed out'), msgid:
<mailman.2.1149803348.35306.all-to at lists.domain.org>

No information is logged by sendmail to maillog.

Outside of Mailman, mail on the server is functioning. I don't believe it to
be a name resolution problem; however, I could be mistaken. I visually
double-checked my hosts file and also made sure the server's name resolves
from the command line.

I also updated mm_cfg.py with a DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST - I
tried using the name and ip for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

I'm stumped. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

-Lee



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 01:32:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:32:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] determine the sender's email address?
In-Reply-To: <4488A4B8.7010400@unidata.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606081632160390fd85fe56@msapiro>

Jennifer Oxelson wrote:
>
>How does Mailman recognize/determine the sender's email address?  E.g., 
>FROM, REPLY-TO, RECEIVED, etc?


Quoting from Defaults.py

# Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by
looking at a
# set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a
member of
# the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable. 
The
# value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names
are
# case insensitive.
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')


The above is used to determine whether or not the post was sent by a
list member. If it is determined that none of the SENDER_HEADERS
addresses is a list member, then the sender for additional tests
(*_these_nonmembers) depends on USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER. If
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is No, it is the first address found in From: if
any, else Sender:. If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is Yes, it is the Sender: if
any, else first From:.


>Also, has anyone ever encountered any issues with spoofing when 
>configuring the sender filters of a list to accept/reject addresses via 
>a specified domain?  E.g., Mailman FAQ Entry #3.33:  How do I accept or 
>reject all addresses from a particular domain?  
>(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.033.htp)


Probably. It is easy enough to spoof the From: or other addresses. If I
know you accept any address @example.com, I can spoof that. As I note
above, the address which is matched against accept_these_nonmembers is
jenerally either From: or Sender: depending on the mm_cfg.py setting
of USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 01:40:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:40:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
In-Reply-To: <IOEBJHNHGHJEPOGFKOFNKELOCKAA.lhaynes@cherokeek12.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606081640030812fd85ffef@msapiro>

Lee Haynes wrote:

>When an email is posted to a list or Mailman generates an email, the message
>is never delivered, and I receive an error in smtp-failure:
>
>Low level smtp error: (60, 'Operation timed out'), msgid:
><mailman.2.1149803348.35306.all-to at lists.domain.org>
>
>No information is logged by sendmail to maillog.


You probably are not able to connect to your SMTP server on SMTPPORT at
SMTPHOST. The default settings are:

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0

0 for SMTPPORT means use the SMTP port = port 25. So if you haven't
changed these in mm_cfg.py, you are trying to connect to port 25 on
'localhost' and your SMTP server isn't answering.

If you've changed these, they're not correct. If you haven't, you
either have to tell your MTA to listen on localhost, port 25 of change
them to an address and port where the MTA is listening.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From eli.tuber at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 03:38:08 2006
From: eli.tuber at gmail.com (Eli Tuber)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
Message-ID: <ffbc31930606081838i152c6f9eldb63ea7b18dd365a@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
turning them back on.

Thanks


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 03:50:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:50:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <ffbc31930606081838i152c6f9eldb63ea7b18dd365a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060818500105623dd9f7b3@msapiro>

Eli Tuber" <eli.tuber at gmail.com>
   Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
>once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
>see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
>when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
>turning them back on.

No, but you can increase the value of N for a list.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Fri Jun  9 05:01:13 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:01:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
Message-ID: <20060609030113.GA30039@xmission.com>

Does Mailman recognize and somehow eliminate entries, addresses, which are
dead or no long in use? 

I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
dead. 

How does Mailman manage these? 

Dr. Scott S. Jones

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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 06:14:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:14:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <20060609030113.GA30039@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606082114430250071ac225@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>Does Mailman recognize and somehow eliminate entries, addresses, which are
>dead or no long in use?


Yes, if bounce processing is on for the list.


>I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
>for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
>dead.
>
>How does Mailman manage these?


In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From danielbk at ornl.gov  Fri Jun  9 06:22:41 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 00:22:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).  Is it normal to see the testlist-bounces?  I have set up a mailertable on the receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay to relay the domain.gov messages to domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov and also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.  I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
 
 
I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will not recognize the dud1 at domain.gov address but the domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov server should.  I have not overridden the default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".
 
By the way, I am truly sorry that I am so dense on this stuff.  You are doing a great job trying to guide me through the jungle.

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Thu 6/8/2006 2:04 AM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> 
> /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp
> Jun 07 09:28:34 2006 (2096) <fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov> smtp to testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

Your post was sent to 4 recipients.


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.105 seconds


Note: in the above and in what follows I have tried to remove (for
readability) the
<mailto:mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> and
similar 'mailto:' links added by your MUA.

3 seconds later a single, mailman generated message was sent - maybe a
notice to the list owner?


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.068 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:38 2006 (2096) <mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.084 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.090 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.094 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds


and another for a total of 7 Mailman generated messages, each to a
single recipient?


> /var/mail/maillog
> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4490]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: from=<dud1 at domain.gov>, size=1806, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<fa3eb410418
> 1.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=domainmta1.domainpriv.gov [10.31.162.9]


The original post is received by the MTA


> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4492]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: to=<testlist at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailma
> n, pri=121806, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and delivered to testlist at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:34 domainwcs1 sendmail[4495]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: from=<testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov>, size=2990, class=-30, nr
> cpts=4, msgid=<fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


The post is received from Mailman for 4 recipients.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZYg
> 004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost


Some other message is received by the MTA from root at localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4500]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


and relayed to localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004500 Message accepted for delivery
> )


and accepted for delivery to testlist-bounces, so it appears to be a
bounce (last 3 entries)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud3 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


The original message for 4 recipients (k57DSY8Z004495) is sent to
dud3 at domain.gov (but this may refer to the bounce)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZUR
> 004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4506]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004506 Message accepted for delivery
> )


And another bounce relayed and accepted for delivery


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud2 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another 'Sent' to dud2 at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZoI
> 004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4501]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4512]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004512 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud1 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Another set of 4 culminating in a 'Sent' to dud1 at domain.gov, but here
there is an additional entry (second of 5) which is actual delivery of
the first bounce to the mailman wrapper.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZdU
> 004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4507]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4518]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004518 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud4 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another, now familiar set, I think the generation of the bounce of
dud4 at domain.gov plus the delivery to mailman of the second bounce.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4513]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:36 domainwcs1 sendmail[4519]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and finally, the delivery to Mailman of the last two bounces.

So mailman is sending the post to dud1 at domain.gov, dud2 at domain.gov,
dud3 at domain.gov and dud4 at domain.gov, the MTA is accepting the post and
then ultimately bouncing all 4 addresses. This is an MTA configuration
or other issue. The MTA (Sendmail) either can't deliver to these
addresses or won't relay to them from localhost. This doesn't appear to
be a Mailman issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 07:23:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 22:23:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <448905BD.20702@value.net>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to
> testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for
> each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).


That's right. Then the MTA returns a bounce to testlist-bounces for each 
undeliverable address.


> Is it normal to
> see the testlist-bounces?


If there's a bounce.


> I have set up a mailertable on the
> receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov
> and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of
> Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay
> to relay the domain.gov messages to domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov and
> also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.
> I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I
> have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
> 
> 
> I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post
> the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay
> through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will
> not recognize the dud1 at domain.gov address but the
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov server should.  I have not overridden the
> default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".


Aha! DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the domain exposed to the world for 
mailing TO Mailman. It has nothing to do with what domain we connect to 
for sending from Mailman. That is controlled by SMTPHOST which defaults 
to 'localhost'. I'm assuming that domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov above is a 
typo and you mean domainmta1.domainpriv.gov or maybe 
domainmta.domainpriv.gov since that's what you seem to actually have for 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. So assuming the Sendmail you want to send (not 
receive) through is domainmta.domainpriv.gov, you want

SMTPHOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 20:09:34 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:09:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606082114430250071ac225@msapiro>
References: <20060609030113.GA30039@xmission.com>
	<PC1740200606082114430250071ac225@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606091109r7fcad50n941d14208a103455@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
> >for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
> >dead.
> >
> >How does Mailman manage these?
> In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce processing page.

To be a bit more precise, the way this works is that Mailman goes
ahead and sends messages to these addresses. If the bounce (that is,
the remove server sends a message back saying that the original
message was undeliverable), bounce processing takes over. In general,
after some number of bounces occur (not on the same day) within some
time period, the account will be disabled, and eventually deleted.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From KenneyW at easternct.edu  Fri Jun  9 20:03:37 2006
From: KenneyW at easternct.edu (KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services))
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:03:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
Message-ID: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF4@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>

Hello,

I am the administrator of our mailman list server and after creating a
new list for a list owner, it was noted that the list owner is not
receiving bounce notifications. I see mail errors as root indicating the
mail recipient is invalid for the delivery URL.

What should I, and/or the list owner do to ensure the owner gets a
bounce notification?

TIA,

Bill

William P. Kenney GSEC
Unix Systems Manager
Eastern Connecticut State University
(860) 465-4688
(860) 465-4675 fax



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 21:06:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:06:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF4@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606091206480421f0c0a595@msapiro>

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:
>
>I am the administrator of our mailman list server and after creating a
>new list for a list owner, it was noted that the list owner is not
>receiving bounce notifications. I see mail errors as root indicating the
>mail recipient is invalid for the delivery URL.
>
>What should I, and/or the list owner do to ensure the owner gets a
>bounce notification?


Is the owner receiving other notifications, e.g. held messages?

Is the 'owner' address correct on the admin General Options page?

Are the notices specifically turned on on the admin Bounce processing
page?

Can you be more specific about the errors you see, i.e. what specific
recipient address is invalid, where do you see these errors?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun  9 23:49:15 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:49:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060818500105623dd9f7b3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/8/06 6:50 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Eli Tuber" <eli.tuber at gmail.com>
>    Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
>      To: mailman-users at python.org
> 
>> Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
>> once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
>> see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
>> when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
>> turning them back on.
> 
> No, but you can increase the value of N for a list.
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp>

I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world has
changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.

  --John




From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Fri Jun  9 23:23:39 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 16:23:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
Message-ID: <OF7256B8F9.D1017B83-ON86257188.00730392-86257188.007582F6@us.ibm.com>


DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is set to thecheat.example.com while the hostname of my
machine is strongbad.example.com.  All emails come from strongbad.  I'm
running sendmail.  Masquerade and Masquerade_as are configured.  I've tried
everything.  All of the FAQ suggestions, the mailing list, usenet, and the
google.  I can't seem to get my mailman install to send mail with the
correct To-header.  I've even tried rebuilding the mailman RPM for RHEL4
with configure explicitly set to use thecheat, but to no avail.  Please
help before I give up on computers and take up subsistence farming.

Thanks in advance,

Tony
http://involution.com



From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Sat Jun 10 01:48:46 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 18:48:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
Message-ID: <OF9D2B4B72.AA524739-ON86257188.0082B911-86257188.0082CC20@us.ibm.com>


All of the emails sent by our server out to the mailing lists were using
the host name instead of the DNS A record for the Mailman VirtualHost. I
tried for days to fix this and eventually got the feeling that it was DNS
related. However, I still couldn't see why Sendmail would force the
To-header back to the canonical name when Mailman was setting it correctly.
Eventually, I happened across this email (
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1998-August/004971.html)
 on the dev list that solved the problem by manually editting sendmail.cf's
rulesets to bypass canonicalization. I'm sure this violates some RFC.
Although, the hack does indeed solve the problem. The actual wizardry was
to comment out the following line in sendmail.cf.


# pass to name server to make hostname canonical
# R$* $| $* < @ $* > $*         $: $2 < @ $[ $3 $] > $4



It's absolutely wrong to do this because if you edit sendmail.mc, and
restart sendmail, the cf file gets regenerated automatically which
obliterates the change. Is there a better way to fix this without violating
RFCs and changing sendmail rulesets? Note: I don't have access to the DNS
server.

Tony Perrie
Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
Fax: 512-838-2132



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 02:10:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:10:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world has
>changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
>owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.


Actually, the distributed default is 30, but your point is still valid.

I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
= 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
probably better for this anyway.

Other thoughts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Jun 10 02:17:26 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:17:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OF9D2B4B72.AA524739-ON86257188.0082B911-86257188.0082CC20@us.ibm.
	com>
References: <OF9D2B4B72.AA524739-ON86257188.0082B911-86257188.0082CC20@us.ibm.
	com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ac0afbf542038@[192.168.1.101]>

At 6:48 PM -0500 2006-06-09, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>           However, I still couldn't see why Sendmail would force the
>  To-header back to the canonical name when Mailman was setting it correctly.
>  Eventually, I happened across this email (
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1998-August/004971.html)
>   on the dev list that solved the problem by manually editting sendmail.cf's
>  rulesets to bypass canonicalization. I'm sure this violates some RFC.

	Yup.  The problem is, your server isn't the only one to perform 
canonicalization.  All other servers your machine talks to should do 
the same, which means that anything you do to eliminate 
canonicalization on your own machine should have absolutely no 
positive impact whatsoever.  You may think it does, but in fact 
everyone else will turn around and do to you exactly what your own 
server was doing.

>  It's absolutely wrong to do this because if you edit sendmail.mc, and
>  restart sendmail, the cf file gets regenerated automatically which
>  obliterates the change. Is there a better way to fix this without violating
>  RFCs and changing sendmail rulesets? Note: I don't have access to the DNS
>  server.

	I'm sorry, the only way to really fix this problem is to fix the 
DNS.  Even if you have complete and total control over your own 
machine, you're still hosed by every other machine on the Internet.

	You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Jun 10 02:37:04 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Jun 9, 2006 05:10:16 pm"
Message-ID: <20060610003705.5D0047AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

How about chunk size and by-letter or whole-list (to apply the chunk)?
I'm willing to bet that the admin of a 300 member list would like to
display by letter, but set the chuck size huge so they see an entire 
letter on one page.

> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.

That sounds good to me. In the case of small-ish lists, skimming 2 or
3 pages to find an email address is less likely to annoy than trying
to remember which letter to start with.

z!


From tmz at pobox.com  Sat Jun 10 02:42:06 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 20:42:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
References: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060610004206.GD22998@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web
> interface to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100,
> all) on the pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
> 
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk
> size = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two
> pages rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to
> find a particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member'
> function is probably better for this anyway.
> 
> Other thoughts?

I lean toward paginating without regard to the alphabet as well and
agree that finding a specific member is best done via the "find
member" search.

None of the lists I help manage are very large, all less than 2,000
members.  So those running larger lists may have good reasons for
preferring other defaults and options that I've never thought about.
And, of course, there are others that simply have different
preferences than I do even for the same size lists (or so I hear).

But it is a minor irritation every time I am in the web admin for a
list and just want to scan through it checking visually for things out
of the ordinary.  Fortunately, I have shell access (hell, root access)
everywhere I manage lists.  So I'm never unable to just open a
terminal and get the data I want.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may
be called.
    -- John Stuart Mill

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From eli.tuber at gmail.com  Sat Jun 10 04:02:12 2006
From: eli.tuber at gmail.com (Eli Tuber)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 22:02:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
References: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ffbc31930606091902l4728898dsfa3487adc6e2e610@mail.gmail.com>

I actually like the idea that the user can control the breakdown size and
the amount of members that are listed per page. Personally as long as the
list is sorted finding the users should not be very hard on a moderate size
list.

This is my first time posting on this users group. What would it take to
have this changes take place? I could really use them for my groups. :-)

Thanks
ET


On 6/9/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> John W. Baxter wrote:
> >
> >I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world
> has
> >changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
> >owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.
>
>
> Actually, the distributed default is 30, but your point is still valid.
>
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
>
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.
>
> Other thoughts?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/eli.tuber%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From danielbk at ornl.gov  Sat Jun 10 04:56:02 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 22:56:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<448905BD.20702@value.net>
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A70@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

I've got the basic mailing list functionality working now!!!  I have been silly enough to look over a typo in my mm_cfg.py file for a couple of days now (SMTP_HOST, not SMPT_HOST).  I still need to turn mm-handler back on but I do not think that will be too hard.  Here is a description of how I have it set up if anyone is interested.
 
NOTE:  One thing to remember is that all mail is sent to domain.gov while all servers actually belong to domainpriv.gov.
 
We have Sun Messenger installed on ServerA.  It is the MTA between our inside domain and the outside world.  Mail comes in from the world to ServerA and is sent to ServerB to be virus scanned.  The scanned message is sent back to ServerA.  If it is a user address, the message is stored on ServerC (the mail store).  If it is a mailing list address, the message is forwarded to ServerD.  ServerD uses Mailman and has Sendmail as its local MTA.  I configured the Sendmail mailertable to accept all domain.gov mail and route it to local for now (uses aliases in /etc/aliases file), but should change it to mailman:localhost when I turn mm-handler back on.  Thus, the mail is accepted at ServerD and sent to Mailman.  Mailman then sends the message to all list members via the MTA on ServerA, not the local Sendmail MTA (SMTP_HOST='ServerA').  Thus, all users get their mailing list message.
 
Thanks for all of the help!!!!  It all makes sense now, but it certainly didn't just a few days ago.
 
I'll check back in when I try to tweak the Mailman install.

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Fri 6/9/2006 1:23 AM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to
> testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for
> each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).


That's right. Then the MTA returns a bounce to testlist-bounces for each
undeliverable address.


> Is it normal to
> see the testlist-bounces?


If there's a bounce.


> I have set up a mailertable on the
> receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov
> and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of
> Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay
> to relay the domain.gov messages to domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov and
> also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.
> I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I
> have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
>
>
> I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post
> the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay
> through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will
> not recognize the dud1 at domain.gov address but the
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov server should.  I have not overridden the
> default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".


Aha! DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the domain exposed to the world for
mailing TO Mailman. It has nothing to do with what domain we connect to
for sending from Mailman. That is controlled by SMTPHOST which defaults
to 'localhost'. I'm assuming that domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov above is a
typo and you mean domainmta1.domainpriv.gov or maybe
domainmta.domainpriv.gov since that's what you seem to actually have for
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. So assuming the Sendmail you want to send (not
receive) through is domainmta.domainpriv.gov, you want

SMTPHOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'

in mm_cfg.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 16:53:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 07:53:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF5@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061007534709533b5a40e8@msapiro>

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:

>The owner is not receiving any notifications


Does the owner receive other notifications that might be enabled. I.e.
notifications of subscribe/unsubscribe, held messages, etc.?


>The owner address is correct
>
>The following is a smtp admin error:
>
>*******************
>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>      leb15 at psu.edu on 6/9/2006 10:52 AM
>            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
>message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
>directly to find out the correct address.
>            < ecsulsvr.easternct.edu #5.1.1 SMTP; 550 5.1.1
><leb15 at psu.edu>... User unknown
>
>*******************
>
>This tells me that the system is sending mail, the other 25 were sent
>from the system without error. The list owner can contact the individual
>to get an updated address.
>
>The main problem is that the list owner isn't notified of the issue with
>the address.
>
>The numeric values on the bounce processing page are default, all no/yes
>values are set to yes.


Owners do not receive notifications of recognized individual bounces.
Owners are only notified (if requested) when a bounce is unrecognized
or a member is disabled due to bounce or ultimately unsubscribed due
to bounce.

Check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if the bounces are being recorded.
If so, and if this has been going on for some time without the member
being disabled, consider adjusting the numeric settings to prevent
bounce info from going stale on this list.

It is also possible that VERP probes are enabled and there is an issue
with delivery to VERP-like addresses in your system. In this case, you
will see entries like "sending <listname> list probe to: <address>
(score 5.0 >= 5.0)" in the bounce log, followed by a reset of the
bounce score, but no disable. If this is the case, see the thread
"VERP active where it shouldn't" starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-June/051402.html>
for additional information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 18:02:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF6@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606100902140015abaf227d@msapiro>

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:

>This is a new list, so there haven't been many deliveries. The owner
>added the users herself and needs to know if anyone is actually
>receiving the mail from the list. She hasn't gotten anything from the
>server.
>
>When she asked if I could tell if the messages were being transmitted I
>had just received 4 smtp failure notifications as root on the system.
>Since her list has more than 4 users, I have to believe the rest went
>out.


Were these for 4 different addresses or 4 notices for 1 address. If
four different addresses, that modifies the details of what I say
below, but not the important message.

Anyway, from Mailman's point of view, the message 'went out' to all
recipients (unless there is some error in Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log
which I doubt), and subsequently, Mailman was notified that 4 messages
were not delivered to 1 recipient, or 1 message was not delivered to 4
recipients, or 2 messages were not delivered to 2 recipients, or ??


>I told her to add me to the list and send a test message out. If I
>receive it I'll know the system is working, if not I'll check with the
>network group to see if they have changed anything in the firewall.


Look in Mailman's 'bounce' log. You should see bounces recorded for the
four notices you received.

If so, after the 5th bounce for that user, the member's delivery will
be disabled and the owner will receive a 'disabled' notice with a copy
of the bounce, and after three weeks (and three notices to the
member), the member will be removed from the list and the owner will
be notified of that too.

You can also look in Mailman's 'smtp' log and see that posts are being
sent.

It seems as if posts are being sent to the entire list and one member
is bouncing. Ultimately, there is no way to know if the other members
are receiving the mail or not, but at least you know it is being
accepted by some remote SMTP server, and bounces are not being
returned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 20:48:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] If your list uses Topics, I need your help
Message-ID: <PC17402006061011485407810483a563@msapiro>

In Mailman 2.1.8 ane prior, there are several problems with Topics.

The help says that you can put keywords one per line in a topic regexp.
This does not work. Also, the Topics regexp is compiled in 'verbose'
mode which means that spaces which are intended to be significant in
the regexp must be inside a bracketed 'character class' or preceded by
a backslash, and hash mark ('#') which is not in a 'class' or preceded
by a backslash introduces a comment which is not part of the regexp.
This too is not mentioned in the help for Topics.

These things have caused problems for people wanting to use Topics.
Some people have figured out how to create topic regexps that work,
but it can be a tedious process to do this.

I propose to change this for Mailman 2.2. My thought is that topic
regexps will no longer be compiled in 'verbose' mode and that
multiline topic regexps will be joined with the OR operator ('|') when
compiled for use so that a topic regexp of, for example,

 one
 two
 three

will actually be equivalent to

 one|two|three

and will match a Subject: or Keywords: header/line containing any one
or more of the three words 'one', 'two' or 'three'.

The problem comes about with lists that have topic regexps which
currently span multiple lines and possible contain comments. An
example might be

 one|    # This is the first word in the list
 two|    # and the second
 three   # and the last, any one of which will match.

Clearly, I can't just join these lines with '|' and compile in
non-verbose mode as this would include the comments and
non-significant white space in the resulting pattern.

My proposal is to convert existing topic regexps to an equivalent,
single line, non-verbose regexp as the list is upgraded when the
instalation upgrades to 2.2, This would result in the above being
changed to

 one|two|three

which would be saved as the regexp for that Topic.

My question (the help I'm soliciting) is does anyone have a problem
with this? To the best of my ability to code it, the Topic would
continue to function exactly as before. The only visible change would
be that the contents of the Regexp box for that topic would change
from the multiline form with comments to a single line without
comments.

So, do you currently have any topic regexps on multiple lines and/or
with comments, and if so would you be disturbed if they were converted
to a single line with the comments and insignificant white space
stripped?

Also, if you have such, and the regexps are more complicated than the
above example, can you send the multiline regexp(s) to me for testing
(off list with subject "Mailman topic regexp" if you don't want to
post them).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 23:33:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:33:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <ffbc31930606091902l4728898dsfa3487adc6e2e610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061014332806870483a4eb@msapiro>

Eli Tuber wrote:

>I actually like the idea that the user can control the breakdown size and
>the amount of members that are listed per page. Personally as long as the
>list is sorted finding the users should not be very hard on a moderate size
>list.
>
>This is my first time posting on this users group. What would it take to
>have this changes take place? I could really use them for my groups. :-)


The most effective easy thing would be to visit the existing RFE at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>
and add your comments and support for the idea.

You could also add a comment at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>

The most effective but not easy thing is to implement it your self in a
style that is consistent with the existing Mailman base and submit it
as a patch. This requires in addition to the obvious knowledge of
Python programming, reading lots of Mailman code and the guides
"Python coding style guide for Mailman"
<http://barry.warsaw.us/software/STYLEGUIDE.txt> and "Style Guide for
Python Code" <http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 11 00:39:36 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 18:39:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
Message-ID: <448B4A28.9090807@yahoo.com>

When viewing a pipermail (MM 2.1.8) list archive by Date, is it normal 
for "Previous message" and "Next message" to navigate to the previous 
and next by Thread rather than by Date?

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 01:50:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <448B4A28.9090807@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061016501302656b1d2f36@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>When viewing a pipermail (MM 2.1.8) list archive by Date, is it normal 
>for "Previous message" and "Next message" to navigate to the previous 
>and next by Thread rather than by Date?


Yes. This is the way it works. There are periodic (monthly) index files
in thread, subject, author and date order, but there is only one HTML
file per message and that one file is linked from all four index
files, but the previous and next links are actually in the HTML
message file, and they are previous and next in thread regardless of
how you got to the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jun 11 04:13:34 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:13:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061016501302656b1d2f36@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061016501302656b1d2f36@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0b12c8f7291@[192.168.1.101]>

At 4:50 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Yes. This is the way it works. There are periodic (monthly) index files
>  in thread, subject, author and date order, but there is only one HTML
>  file per message and that one file is linked from all four index
>  files, but the previous and next links are actually in the HTML
>  message file, and they are previous and next in thread regardless of
>  how you got to the message.

	Ahh.  In which case, we should probably change the tag info to 
indicate that the previous and next message are by thread.  Having a 
"(by thread)" comment after the "previous" and "next" links would 
probably be sufficient.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From daevid at daevid.com  Sun Jun 11 04:39:16 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 19:39:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606091109r7fcad50n941d14208a103455@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c68d00$4d641980$450a0a0a@locutus>

Yeah, except the problem is that most servers just silently "accept" on
behalf of that person. Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
other big ISP? NO.

This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm subscription" request. 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504204&group_id=10
3&atid=100103

:(

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+daevid=daevid.com at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+daevid=daevid.com at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Patrick Bogen
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:10 AM
> To: Mark Sapiro
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
> 
> On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > >I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize 
> several email addresses
> > >for recipients who are long since moved, and whose 
> addresses are likely
> > >dead.
> > >
> > >How does Mailman manage these?
> > In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce 
> processing page.
> 
> To be a bit more precise, the way this works is that Mailman goes
> ahead and sends messages to these addresses. If the bounce (that is,
> the remove server sends a message back saying that the original
> message was undeliverable), bounce processing takes over. In general,
> after some number of bounces occur (not on the same day) within some
> time period, the account will be disabled, and eventually deleted.
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/daevid%40
daevid.com
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
01.027.htp
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 05:06:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 20:06:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <p06200700c0b12c8f7291@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	Ahh.  In which case, we should probably change the tag info to 
>indicate that the previous and next message are by thread.  Having a 
>"(by thread)" comment after the "previous" and "next" links would 
>probably be sufficient.


I'm ready to make the change, but I wonder about the actual appearance.
Here's an example of the current

# Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Brad seems to be suggesting something like

# Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
  (by thread)
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

I think I prefer something like

# Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 11 05:19:30 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 23:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448B8BC2.1080109@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
  > I think I prefer something like
> 
> # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
> # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
> # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

This example makes sense to me.

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 05:29:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 20:29:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <000301c68d00$4d641980$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061020293508597f5f865e@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:

>Yeah, except the problem is that most servers just silently "accept" on
>behalf of that person. Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
>other big ISP? NO.


Actually, I see bounces from AOL all the time for lots of reasons
ranging from "non-existent user" to "we didn't like a URL in the body
of your message". What they don't bounce is messages they accept and
put in a 'spam' folder.


>This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm subscription" request. 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504204&group_id=103&atid=100103


Which was just submitted as a bug and duplicates your RFE of a couple
of weeks ago at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495305&group_id=103&atid=350103>.

It doesn't really help to re-submit what is really a feature request as
a bug. It just clutters up the tracker and makes the task of fixing
things seem more daunting than it really is.

If you're just trying to ping us to see if we're paying attention, it
would be much better to add a comment to your original request.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Sun Jun 11 05:32:49 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
References: <000301c68d00$4d641980$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <001f01c68d07$b73f6330$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Are you serious, Daevid??

<<Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
other big ISP? NO.
>>

AOL = LOTS!!!

PITA!!

Ed

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jun 11 10:46:09 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 03:46:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200701c0b188ae3db3@[192.168.2.144]>

At 8:06 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I think I prefer something like
>
>  # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
>  # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
>  # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>  Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?

	Now that I've seen the options, I like your idea best.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 17:45:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:45:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <p06200701c0b188ae3db3@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606110845270156989688b7@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 8:06 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  I think I prefer something like
>>
>>  # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
>>  # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
>>  # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>
>>  Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?
>
>	Now that I've seen the options, I like your idea best.


It seems unanimous so I've committed the change in the Subversion trunk
for Mailman 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mail at onesir.com  Sun Jun 11 16:41:31 2006
From: mail at onesir.com (onesir mail)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:41:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
Message-ID: <E1FpR87-0006Sh-C6@s19.s19avahost.net>

Hi,

My apologies in advance if this proves to be a silly question - please 
point me to the silly answer.

I have used cPanel X to set up a couple of one-way announcement 
mailing lists using mailman.  I have no problems with the general 
operation of mailman.

The mailman generated domain mailing lists page contains the following 
line:- 

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
mailman at domain.com. (where domain is my own domain)

I have sent mail to this address but it seems to be lost in a black 
hole.  By default all unknown address e-mails sent to my domain end up 
in the webmaster inbox.

Does anyone know where mail sent to mailman at domain.com is routed?

Regards,


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 19:05:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:05:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
In-Reply-To: <E1FpR87-0006Sh-C6@s19.s19avahost.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606111005560281f53d7b31@msapiro>

onesir mail wrote:
>
>If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
>mailman at domain.com. (where domain is my own domain)
>
>I have sent mail to this address but it seems to be lost in a black 
>hole.  By default all unknown address e-mails sent to my domain end up 
>in the webmaster inbox.
>
>Does anyone know where mail sent to mailman at domain.com is routed?


mailman at domain.com is the site list for your mailman installation. It
is required that you have this list. In addition to being mentioned on
listinfo pages as you quote above, it is also the 'source' of password
reminders and certain other Mailman generated messages. This list
exists at your site or Mailman wouldn't run. You can see it's listinfo
page at something like <http:/domain.com/mailman/listinfo/mailman> and
you can administer it at <http:/domain.com/mailman/admin/mailman>
although at least initially, you'll probably need the site password to
log in.

The owner of this list should be set to the Mailman site administrator
who should also be a member of the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Sun Jun 11 20:03:20 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:03:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0B1A8F8.D01B%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/9/06 5:10 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.
> 
> Other thoughts?

I just put a supporting comment into the related RFE (782436).

However, we need to remember that we got to where we are because people
didn't like the old (1.0.x) way of doing this.  The page size choice might
have been the better way to fix that.

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 20:18:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <C0B1A8F8.D01B%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061111180003753f71ccf7@msapiro>

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>However, we need to remember that we got to where we are because people
>didn't like the old (1.0.x) way of doing this.  The page size choice might
>have been the better way to fix that.


Thanks for the history John. So far, nothing has been done towards an
implementation, but it is clear that something needs to be done.
Whether that something is just allowing control of members per page,
filling each page but the last or a combination is not yet clear.

I hope that interested people will add their ideas to the RFE
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=350103&aid=782436&group_id=103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sun Jun 11 20:59:47 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:59:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <448B8BC2.1080109@yahoo.com>
References: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
	<448B8BC2.1080109@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060611115907.07be3ca8@crimson-dragon.com>

Jim Popovitch sent the message below at 08:19 PM 6/10/2006:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   > I think I prefer something like
> >
> > # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
> > # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
> > # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>This example makes sense to me.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

And to me, it is clear and concise. It's also what I thought Brad 
meant when he proposed it.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 12 00:17:26 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:17:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606110845270156989688b7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606110845270156989688b7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448C9676.8050007@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> At 8:06 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>>  I think I prefer something like
>>>
>>>  # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
>>>  # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
>>>  # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>>
>>>  Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?
>> 	Now that I've seen the options, I like your idea best.
> 
> 
> It seems unanimous so I've committed the change in the Subversion trunk
> for Mailman 2.2.

Thanks Mark, Brad too for his input.

Question:  Where can I make this change today to MM 2.1.8?

Thx,

-Jim P.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 01:50:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:50:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <448C9676.8050007@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060611165022060989a61f97@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>Question:  Where can I make this change today to MM 2.1.8?


Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py

--- HyperArch.py	(revision 7893)
+++ HyperArch.py	(working copy)
@@ -493,7 +493,7 @@
             subject = self._get_subject_enc(self.prev)
             prev = ('<LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="%s">'
                     % (url_quote(self.prev.filename)))
-            prev_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Previous message:') +
+            prev_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Previous message (by thread):') +
                           ' <A HREF="%s">%s\n</A></li>'
                           % (url_quote(self.prev.filename),
                              self.quote(subject)))
@@ -515,7 +515,7 @@
             subject = self._get_subject_enc(self.next)
             next = ('<LINK REL="Next"  HREF="%s">'
                     % (url_quote(self.next.filename)))
-            next_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Next message:') +
+            next_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Next message (by thread):') +
                           ' <A HREF="%s">%s\n</A></li>'
                           % (url_quote(self.next.filename),
                              self.quote(subject)))


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From daevid at daevid.com  Mon Jun 12 07:36:21 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061020293508597f5f865e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002801c68de2$34fbf290$450a0a0a@locutus>

> >This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm 
> subscription" request. 
> >http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504
> 204&group_id=103&atid=100103
> 
> 
> Which was just submitted as a bug and duplicates your RFE of a couple
> of weeks ago at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495
> 305&group_id=103&atid=350103>.
> 
> It doesn't really help to re-submit what is really a feature 
> request as
> a bug. It just clutters up the tracker and makes the task of fixing
> things seem more daunting than it really is.
> 
> If you're just trying to ping us to see if we're paying attention, it
> would be much better to add a comment to your original request.

No, I actually did search for my previous entry, as I could swear I had
entered one, but couldn't find it. Honest Injun I looked via several key
words and even tried to find via my 'username'. So I thought perhaps I
THOUGHT I entered one, but it never actually got submitted or something
(like as in CGI error or timeout or who knows)...

Sorry for the duplicate entry. It was not my intention.

D



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 11:02:03 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:32:03 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606120202s4205bdbal65f0511f64bf5f3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ALL

I am a newbie to install GNU Mailman, I have downloaded mailman-2.1.8.tgz
Just wanted to know the step by step guide to install Mailman

Thank You

Regards

Kaushal


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jun 12 11:06:07 2006
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:06:07 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606120202s4205bdbal65f0511f64bf5f3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0606120202s4205bdbal65f0511f64bf5f3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230902c0b2debfad03@[203.53.37.182]>

>Hi ALL
>
>I am a newbie to install GNU Mailman, I have downloaded mailman-2.1.8.tgz
>Just wanted to know the step by step guide to install Mailman
>
>Thank You
>
>Regards
>
Hi again,
	The instructions are included in the document named Intsall 
within the archive you downloaded, but there are numerous guides 
available online - do a search for something like 'Step By Step 
installation Mailman'
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From lists at videonetwork.org  Mon Jun 12 13:11:42 2006
From: lists at videonetwork.org (Ben Edwards (lists))
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:11:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retreving main list password
Message-ID: <1150110702.5081.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have a server with mailman on it.  Is there a way of retrieving the
main list password?  

Ben




From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Mon Jun 12 15:40:01 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:40:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web-frontend on different server than
	mailserver
Message-ID: <448D6EB1.5090808@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hello,

i have a tricky problem:

Our mail- and webserver crashed and after a restore apache isn't running
yet - it will still take some time to fix it on the origin server (so
the web-frontend of mailman isn't working)- so we set up apache on a new
machine.
The problem is, that after the installation of mailman on the new
machine, mailman logicly looks on the localhost for lists etc.

What I want is (if possible) to use the mailman installation on the new
server, but to take the lists and configs from the origin server - if
this isn't possible - I would try to transfer everything to the new
server - but the problem is that I CAN'T TRANSFER the mailserver!!!

Incoming mails are still recieved by the origin server (postfix) an I
don't know how to tell postfix/mailman that mailman now is on a
different server in the LAN an it has to pass over all mailman commands
to the new server...

Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

Ivan




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 16:23:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:23:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <002801c68de2$34fbf290$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606120723420937cf35b433@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
>
>No, I actually did search for my previous entry, as I could swear I had
>entered one, but couldn't find it. Honest Injun I looked via several key
>words and even tried to find via my 'username'. So I thought perhaps I
>THOUGHT I entered one, but it never actually got submitted or something
>(like as in CGI error or timeout or who knows)...


Possibly you were searching only in bugs, not in feature requests. It
is possible to search the entire mailman tracker by clicking
"advanced" sext to the project (not the global) 'search' button, but
the detailed 'browse' search only searches the current category.


>Sorry for the duplicate entry. It was not my intention.


Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 16:41:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retreving main list password
In-Reply-To: <1150110702.5081.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606120741430796b540e3e7@msapiro>

Ben Edwards (lists) wrote:

>I have a server with mailman on it.  Is there a way of retrieving the
>main list password?  


You can't retrieve it, but you can set a new one with bin/change_pw or
by using the site password to access the list and change the list
password. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.008.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Mon Jun 12 16:59:24 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:59:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ac0afbf542038@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <OFA3FBA96F.563E2F56-ON8625718B.0051C1CC-8625718B.00525550@us.ibm.com>

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote on 06/09/2006 07:17:26 PM:

> You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
> and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.

Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is only on our
Intranet.

> You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.

So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?

Tony



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 17:25:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
In-Reply-To: <000801c68ddc$f9928b10$0201a8c0@sun>
Message-ID: <PC174020060612082507007849a98435@msapiro>

onesir mail wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>onesir mail wrote:

>> >Unfortunately lots of web-sites are co-hosted at this site all with a
>>>central mailman administration.  I expect users who send a message to
>>>mailman at mydomain.com expect the message to be routed to me.  It seems
>>>impractical for a couple of hundred distinct web-sites to share a
>>>central mailman admin list.  Oh well.
>>
>>
>> Yes, that is a problem when several domains share the same Mailman
>> installation.
>>
>> I suggest that you subscribe to the mailman list. The site
>> administration should allow any domain administrator to subscribe.
>> That way you will receive messages sent to mailman at mydomain.com, and
>> those sent to mailman at the.other.domains,com as well, and you can
>> filter out the others and see those of interest to you.
>
>I have applied to subscribe.  I suspect our list isn't actively monitored as 
>I haven't heard anything yet (12 hours).  There may well be privacy issues 
>with receiving mailman messages for other domains (one suspects that the 
>bulk of the traffic would be complaints).


I had another thought. You said you are on a cPanel installation. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
and understand from that that I may well not know what I'm talking
about, but cPanel has patched Mailman to support lists of the same
name in different domains. The site list is quite likely an area that
is handled differently, but you could try just creating a
mailman at mydomain.com list (which cPanel will create with an internal
name of mailman_mydomain.com) and see if it will receive mail sent to
the mailman at mydomain.com address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mail at onesir.com  Mon Jun 12 18:07:47 2006
From: mail at onesir.com (onesir mail)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:07:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
Message-ID: <E1Fpox9-0006k4-0h@s19.s19avahost.net>

Hi Mark,

Yes.  That solved the problem.  I used cPanel X to create a list 
called mailman in mydomain and I now receive messages sent to 
mailman at mydomain.com.

This is much more useful then having such messages disappear into a 
blackhole.

Thanks for your time and help.

Regards,

> onesir mail wrote:
> 
> >Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> >>onesir mail wrote:
> 
> >> >Unfortunately lots of web-sites are co-hosted at this site all 
with a
> >>>central mailman administration.  I expect users who send a 
message to
> >>>mailman at mydomain.com expect the message to be routed to me.  It 
seems
> >>>impractical for a couple of hundred distinct web-sites to share a
> >>>central mailman admin list.  Oh well.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, that is a problem when several domains share the same Mailman
> >> installation.
> >>
> >> I suggest that you subscribe to the mailman list. The site
> >> administration should allow any domain administrator to subscribe.
> >> That way you will receive messages sent to mailman at mydomain.com, 
and
> >> those sent to mailman at the.other.domains,com as well, and you can
> >> filter out the others and see those of interest to you.
> >
> >I have applied to subscribe.  I suspect our list isn't actively 
monitored as 
> >I haven't heard anything yet (12 hours).  There may well be privacy 
issues 
> >with receiving mailman messages for other domains (one suspects 
that the 
> >bulk of the traffic would be complaints).
> 
> 
> I had another thought. You said you are on a cPanel installation. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?
req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
> and understand from that that I may well not know what I'm talking
> about, but cPanel has patched Mailman to support lists of the same
> name in different domains. The site list is quite likely an area that
> is handled differently, but you could try just creating a
> mailman at mydomain.com list (which cPanel will create with an internal
> name of mailman_mydomain.com) and see if it will receive mail sent to
> the mailman at mydomain.com address.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. 
Dylan
> 
> 
> 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 12 18:29:15 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OFA3FBA96F.563E2F56-ON8625718B.0051C1CC-8625718B.00525550@us.ibm.
	com>
References: <OFA3FBA96F.563E2F56-ON8625718B.0051C1CC-8625718B.00525550@us.ibm.
	com>
Message-ID: <p06200703c0b346937214@[192.168.2.144]>

At 9:59 AM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>>  You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
>>  and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.
>
>  Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is only on our
>  Intranet.

	Is it the only server?  Can you guarantee that there will only 
ever be the one server?

>>  You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.
>
>  So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?

	No, dump the CNAME.  Use exclusively A records.  And make sure 
that the forward and reverse match -- if this means you need to have 
multiple reverse records, then do so.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 18:48:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web-frontend on different server
	thanmailserver
In-Reply-To: <448D6EB1.5090808@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606120948270390ff7533e1@msapiro>

IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt wrote:
>
>i have a tricky problem:
>
>Our mail- and webserver crashed and after a restore apache isn't running
>yet - it will still take some time to fix it on the origin server (so
>the web-frontend of mailman isn't working)- so we set up apache on a new
>machine.
>The problem is, that after the installation of mailman on the new
>machine, mailman logicly looks on the localhost for lists etc.
>
>What I want is (if possible) to use the mailman installation on the new
>server, but to take the lists and configs from the origin server


This is possible using NFS, but I have a hard time imagining how
setting it up and getting it working would be quicker than getting the
web server up on the original machine.


> - if
>this isn't possible - I would try to transfer everything to the new
>server - but the problem is that I CAN'T TRANSFER the mailserver!!!
>
>Incoming mails are still recieved by the origin server (postfix) an I
>don't know how to tell postfix/mailman that mailman now is on a
>different server in the LAN an it has to pass over all mailman commands
>to the new server...


In general, you need to have an MTA on the Mailman machine to deliver
mail to Mailman. You need to somehow configure Postfix on the original
machine to relay list mail to the new machine. How to do this is a
Postfix question that I don't know the answer to, unless your lists
have their own domain in which case you can change the DNS for that
domain to point to the Mailman machine.

Alternatively, you can configure Postfix on the old machine to deliver
to local mailboxes and use something like fetchmail on the new machine
to retrieve the mail and deliver it to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Jun 12 19:57:45 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:57:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each Message
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>

I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with about 90 Mailman lists on it, each of 
which generally has between 100 and 300 subscribers.

Occasionally, I get a subscriber who says that they are receiving two 
copies of each and every message posted to a given list.  It even 
happened to me for a while, on one small not very active list.

Currently I am working with a user, who is technically reliable, he 
is only subscribed to one list from one address, and has never been 
subscribed to any other of our lists.  He receives two copies of each 
message to the list he is subscribed too, and since it runs about 150 
messages a day, he is getting annoyed.  Others on the list do not 
have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so 
I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Dave



David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 20:01:05 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:01:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each
	Message
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606121101w9b879b1qfd6921bc09dba433@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/06, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> subscribed to any other of our lists.  He receives two copies of each
> message to the list he is subscribed too, and since it runs about 150
> messages a day, he is getting annoyed.  Others on the list do not
> have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so
> I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.
>
> Any ideas?
>

In the past, these symptoms have been caused by having client-side
filtering rules that inadvertantly duplicate the message. Could this
be the problem in your case?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Mon Jun 12 20:09:21 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:09:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each
 Message
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <C0B2FBE1.D058%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/12/06 10:57 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> Others on the list do not
> have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so
> I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.

Start by examining the Received: headers on the two copies of a duplicated
message.  The point where they diverge, reading bottom up, (if they do) is
the point at which the duplication happens.  If they don't diverge at all,
then the problem happens after the last recorded Received: header, meaning
as the messages go into his mailbox or after he retrieves them.

  --John




From chad at shire.net  Mon Jun 12 19:59:55 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:59:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each
	Message
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <C3F13989-8FF5-421D-9275-474A2E66DD38@shire.net>


On Jun 12, 2006, at 11:57 AM, David Andrews wrote:

> I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with about 90 Mailman lists on it, each of
> which generally has between 100 and 300 subscribers.
>
> Occasionally, I get a subscriber who says that they are receiving two
> copies of each and every message posted to a given list.  It even
> happened to me for a while, on one small not very active list.
>
> Currently I am working with a user, who is technically reliable, he
> is only subscribed to one list from one address, and has never been
> subscribed to any other of our lists.  He receives two copies of each
> message to the list he is subscribed too, and since it runs about 150
> messages a day, he is getting annoyed.  Others on the list do not
> have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so
> I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.

Compare the headers.  Check your MTA outgoing logs and match message  
id(s) to the instances in the log.  You should be able to tell if  
your end is sending it out more than once, most likely, or if his end  
is duplicating it (perhaps bad spam filtering?).

Chad


---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net





From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Mon Jun 12 20:36:07 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:36:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <p06200703c0b346937214@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.com>

I thought that Bind allows multiple aliases and CNAMEs for an IP address,
but only one reverse lookup.  Are you suggesting I should use multiple IP
addresses for the host?

Tony Perrie
Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
Fax: 512-838-2132

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote on 06/12/2006 11:29:15 AM:

> At 9:59 AM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:
>
> >>  You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
> >>  and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.
> >
> >  Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is only on
our
> >  Intranet.
>
>    Is it the only server?  Can you guarantee that there will only
> ever be the one server?
> h
> >>  You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.
> >
> >  So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?
>
>    No, dump the CNAME.  Use exclusively A records.  And make sure
> that the forward and reverse match -- if this means you need to have
> multiple reverse records, then do so.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.



From chad at shire.net  Mon Jun 12 22:17:34 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:17:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.com>
References: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <9B88D6FE-B1E6-4B4E-ADDF-A1241BD07998@shire.net>


On Jun 12, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Joseph Perrie wrote:

> I thought that Bind allows multiple aliases and CNAMEs for an IP  
> address,
> but only one reverse looku

You can have multiple reverse lookups

 > set type=ptr
 > 166.70.252.250
Server:         166.70.252.134
Address:        166.70.252.134#53

250.252.70.166.in-addr.arpa     name = mail.freestylefund.com.
250.252.70.166.in-addr.arpa     name = mail.shire.net.
 >



> p.  Are you suggesting I should use multiple IP
> addresses for the host?
>
> Tony Perrie
> Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
> 11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
> Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
> Fax: 512-838-2132
>
> Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote on 06/12/2006  
> 11:29:15 AM:
>
>> At 9:59 AM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:
>>
>>>>  You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
>>>>  and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.
>>>
>>>  Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is  
>>> only on
> our
>>>  Intranet.
>>
>>    Is it the only server?  Can you guarantee that there will only
>> ever be the one server?
>> h
>>>>  You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.
>>>
>>>  So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?
>>
>>    No, dump the CNAME.  Use exclusively A records.  And make sure
>> that the forward and reverse match -- if this means you need to have
>> multiple reverse records, then do so.
>>
>> --
>> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>>
>> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>>
>>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>>
>>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> chad%40shire.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 04:26:14 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:26:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.
	com>
References: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.
	com>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0b3d26236ae@[192.168.2.144]>

At 1:36 PM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>  I thought that Bind allows multiple aliases and CNAMEs for an IP address,
>  but only one reverse lookup.  Are you suggesting I should use multiple IP
>  addresses for the host?

	BIND doesn't care.  The DNS specification allows as many IP 
addresses as you want for a given name, and as many reverse records 
as you want for each IP address.

	That said, many applications cannot handle more than one reverse 
record for a given IP address, but that is the problem of the 
application -- BIND doesn't care.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jon at corporates.com  Tue Jun 13 09:24:25 2006
From: jon at corporates.com (jon lanclos)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 02:24:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web based interface not working
Message-ID: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>

I try and use the login of ...

<server.domain.tld>/mailman/admin/<listname>

I have a list called everyone and leasing. I cannot login as administrator
and edit the list, nor can I respond to administrative alerts  which are
sent to me as the administrator.

I'm getting admin mail which looks like this ...

----
The Everyone at mail.corporates.com mailing list has 6 request(s) waiting
for your consideration at:

    http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone
    
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

----

When I click on the link to go to the web interface - I get the following
message ...

Safari can?t open the page
?http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone? because it could not
connect to the server ?mail.corporates.com?.

Anyone have any suggestions? Please.

Jon @ corporates.com




From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 13 15:06:09 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:06:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
Message-ID: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

I may have a need to throttle the output of a list which sends out about 
22,000 emails when called upon. I have tried the milter-limit from Snert, 
and it seems to work, but since this is designed mostly for incoming-limits 
as opposed to outgoing, I'm not sure what the consequences are for Mailman.

I have run a test on this to verify some sense of proof-of-concept, but only 
a mild test, before questions starting being raised. I have taken the 
questions as far as possible with the milter-limit pros, and now need to 
confirm how Mailman might be handling this.

The scenario is like this: I set an output limit for the Mailman user 
through the milter (messages/time limit). I then send an announcement to the 
large-member list to be distributed. Mainman generates the outgoing email, 
and the milter takes over and throttles the output based on the 
messages/time limit setting. A lot of this depends on how Mailman generates 
the outgoing email and how it will respond to the temporary failures for 
retry.

This works on the very simple test of setting 2 messages per 10 minutes, and 
having sent 3 separate emails. The throttle worked (minus Mailman output). 
But what will Mailman do when I send to 20,000 and the milter starts 
temp-failing after the limit is reached? Does it see these as bounces? Will 
it insert the pending emails into the sendmail queue or fail?

Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?

Thanks for anything offered.


Steve Campbell
campbell at cnpapers.com
Charleston Newspapers




From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 15:12:49 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:12:49 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
Message-ID: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>

Hello,

Is it posible to configure mailman to edit mails waiting for approval ?

thx.
Haluk


From bernd at firmix.at  Tue Jun 13 15:17:00 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:17:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
[...]
> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?

Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
run?

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From f3402vy02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:10:42 2006
From: f3402vy02 at sneakemail.com (Michael)
Date: 13 Jun 2006 14:10:42 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin
Message-ID: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>

Hello,

I just installed mailman and now I want to create some lists, but I want to use mailman more or less as a distribution-list-admin-tool + mail-archive.
So I want to
- create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
- only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web-interface to do this?)
- no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to the list xxx ..."

is this possible? what option do I have to look for!

thanks for any help!

michi


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:41:16 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:41:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin
In-Reply-To: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
References: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130741p2ecbb8c5n689f25ea7da0158b@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 Jun 2006 14:10:42 -0000, Michael <f3402vy02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> - create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
http://<host>/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/add
Choose 'No' for 'Send welcome messages...' and 'Send notifications...'

> - only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web-interface to do this?)
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp

> - no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to the list xxx ..."
http://<host>/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/<listname>/general
'send_reminders' set to 'No'

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:44:26 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130744j4edc4517l74de1b3e123e84a6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Steve Campbell <campbell at cnpapers.com> wrote:
> But what will Mailman do when I send to 20,000 and the milter starts
> temp-failing after the limit is reached? Does it see these as bounces? Will
> it insert the pending emails into the sendmail queue or fail?
>

Assuming your MTA returns a failure code indicating a temporary
failure (a 400-series error? someone correct me if I'm wrong...),
mailman should drop the message into the 'retry' queue and try again
some time (fifteen minutes?) later. Realize, of course, that unless
your MTA is limiting by number of recipients, each mailman 'mail' may
include several hundred recipients (unless you've turned on
personalization. Which, for a 20,000 member list, probably isn't a
very good idea).

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:46:24 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:46:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
References: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> Is it posible to configure mailman to edit mails waiting for approval ?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp

(P.S. to our FAQ managing-type folks: A search for 'edit held' or
'edit held message' didn't bring up this FAQ entry, with the default
search settings. Switching to 'keywords (any)' worked alright. I'm not
sure if this is considered an issue.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:56:23 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:56:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web based interface not working
In-Reply-To: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>
References: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130756l2e065266uc182ae9bf7d77a14@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, jon lanclos <jon at corporates.com> wrote:
>     http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone
<snip>
> Safari can?t open the page
> ?http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone? because it could not
> connect to the server ?mail.corporates.com?.
>

Assuming that 'mail.corporates.com' is, in fact, the correct hostname
for your mail server, it would seem like you aren't running Apache (or
some other web server) to provide access to the web interface.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 17:13:13 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:13:13 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060613181313.779ee921.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:46:24 -0500
"Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> > Is it posible to configure mailman to edit mails waiting for approval ?
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp
> 
> (P.S. to our FAQ managing-type folks: A search for 'edit held' or
> 'edit held message' didn't bring up this FAQ entry, with the default
> search settings. Switching to 'keywords (any)' worked alright. I'm not
> sure if this is considered an issue.)
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> 


I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.
Forwarding mails and then reforwarding mail or editing the mails on filesystem,
is not very userfriedly and not practicable for our use.

thanks,
Haluk 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 17:16:59 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:16:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613181313.779ee921.hdu@qualigo.de>
References: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060613181313.779ee921.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130816w13c5e589gf89837a1f284415e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.

As far as I know, there is currently no way to do this. (The
previously linked FAQ entry corroborates this.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 17:23:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:23:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130823150781a3aa5b1c@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>(P.S. to our FAQ managing-type folks: A search for 'edit held' or
>'edit held message' didn't bring up this FAQ entry, with the default
>search settings. Switching to 'keywords (any)' worked alright. I'm not
>sure if this is considered an issue.)


Two things here.

We are all FAQ maintainers. The FAQ is maintained by the community on
the honor system, much like a wiki. The password is right there on the
bottom of every page.

Regarding search, I don't think this is an issue. If you search for
"edit held" as a simple string and the entry does not contain that
exact string (because it contains "edit a held message"), it won't
match. That's why you have the option to say your search entry is
individual words to match (Keywords any or all), or a regular
expression.

If you are suggesting that the term "Simple string" would better be
described as "Exact phrase" or something similar, you may be correct,
but getting this actually changed on python.org is a 'windmill' I'll
leave to someone else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Tue Jun 13 17:25:49 2006
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:25:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin
In-Reply-To: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
References: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <2415C978-BB6D-48E3-82A2-F542EED9D60B@canby.k12.or.us>

On Jun 13, 2006, at 7:10 AM, Michael wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just installed mailman and now I want to create some lists, but I  
> want to use mailman more or less as a distribution-list-admin-tool  
> + mail-archive.
> So I want to
> - create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
You can do that in the General Options page (Send welcome message to  
newly subscribed members option) or the Mass Subscription page.
> - only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web- 
> interface to do this?)
Set every member bit to "mod" in Member page. Please looking for help  
page on mailman python, I believe there is more options that you have  
to set for it to withheld every post except yours.
> - no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to  
> the list xxx ..."
Not sure what you meant by this question?
> is this possible? what option do I have to look for!
>
> thanks for any help!
>
> michi
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> phanh%40canby.k12.or.us
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 17:27:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606130816w13c5e589gf89837a1f284415e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130827100921a3aa5ba3@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
>> I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.
>
>As far as I know, there is currently no way to do this. (The
>previously linked FAQ entry corroborates this.)


But it is on the ToDo list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>. We know
that the methods in the FAQ are not a solution to the problem, but
currently that's all there is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 17:18:45 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>

At 3:17 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>  On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
>  [...]
>>  Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>
>  Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
>  should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
>  run?

	I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the 
first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take 
everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue. 
This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA) 
configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.

	Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing 
that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an 
additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.


	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of 
sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery 
Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a 
fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant 
period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding 
the picture for Mailman.


	And I'm sure there are other factors or issues to be considered, 
although I haven't thought of any others off the top of my head.


	This is a complex problem, which is why Mailman has not attempted 
to deal with this issue in the past.  If you're running a large list, 
I still firmly believe that you should be hosting that list at a 
provider where you are not required to do any throttling.

	If you do have to do throttling, then you're hosting your list at 
the wrong place.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 17:35:44 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:35:44 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606130827100921a3aa5ba3@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606130816w13c5e589gf89837a1f284415e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606130827100921a3aa5ba3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060613183544.3d612898.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:27:10 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> 
> >On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> >> I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.
> >
> >As far as I know, there is currently no way to do this. (The
> >previously linked FAQ entry corroborates this.)
> 
> 
> But it is on the ToDo list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>. We know
> that the methods in the FAQ are not a solution to the problem, but
> currently that's all there is.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

... so I must implemet it selfe four our use.

But its nice to know that there will be soon a professional solution. 

thank you very much,
Haluk 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 17:38:11 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <002a01c68efc$fd566c00$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<6fbe3da00606130744j4edc4517l74de1b3e123e84a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<002a01c68efc$fd566c00$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130838y8affb68m4928328c5f4a4ef8@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Steve Campbell <campbell at cnpapers.com> wrote:
> The failure code is 450 4.7.1. I would probably set the SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =
> "some very small number" also to allow only small amounts at one time.
>
> So, assuming that the milter works properly, and it takes one hundred loops
> for the milter to process the entire retry queue over a given time interval,
> would Mailman be OK with this? As I see it, the first run through the
> milter, 99% of the original email would still not go out, then the second
> run would be 98% of the original, etc. Is this going to cause Mailman to
> give up on some of the emails that are last in line and flag them in any
> way?

I think it should be alright. Mailman's logic says that, if it's a
temporary failure, AND none of the recipients could be delivered, AND
mm_cfg.DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD has passed (5 days, in my Defaults.py),
then the message will be discarded. The default DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT is
1 hour, so that gives you 120 chances. Shorten the retry to, say, 5
minutes, and you get 1440 chances. If you deliver, say, 25 mails per
five minutes (if you can configure it that way), then you get to send
36,000 mails. Overlapping mails might be a problem.

(All told, a better solution is to configure your MTA (even if it's an
MTA local to the mailman machine) to accept them all for delivery, and
then throttle it there. The MTA is better equipped for this, since
Mailman doesn't know about throttling, it's not going to blink if it
thinks it's the right idea to discard the message at some point.)

(P.S., please CC the list on all replies.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 17:40:10 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:40:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606130823150781a3aa5b1c@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606130823150781a3aa5b1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130840s65398f04hc8e02bb6bfda1b3@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> We are all FAQ maintainers. The FAQ is maintained by the community on
> the honor system, much like a wiki. The password is right there on the
> bottom of every page.
>
I never noticed it there. That would've been quite helpful the one or
two times I felt driven to tweak the FAQ.

>
> If you are suggesting that the term "Simple string" would better be
> described as "Exact phrase" or something similar, you may be correct,
> but getting this actually changed on python.org is a 'windmill' I'll
> leave to someone else.
>
Understood.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 13 17:39:56 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:39:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

Bernd,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
> [...]
>> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>
> Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
> should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
> run?

This originally sounded like a "too-simple-to-work" idea, but after thinking 
about it, it may be the best. If you mean QueueGroups with a separate runner 
for this particular list, then the milter would handle the throttle of the 
runner and relieve Mailman of the outgoing problems. It would really give me 
a little more control because of the sleep time of the queue runner along 
with the milter throttle. This will be a multiple-list server and only one 
or two lists would require the slowdown/pacing.

Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested 
without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would occur.

Thanks

Steve


>
> Bernd
> -- 
> Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
> mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
>          Embedded Linux Development and Services
>
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 17:42:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:42:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613183544.3d612898.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130842580953ec7b7213@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus wrote:
>
>... so I must implemet it selfe four our use.
>
>But its nice to know that there will be soon a professional solution. 


If you are going to do this yourself, the quickest way to get this into
the base is to contribute your changes back. While some of us may be
professional programmers, we are all just volunteers when it comes to
Mailman.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 17:49:27 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:49:27 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606130842580953ec7b7213@msapiro>
References: <20060613183544.3d612898.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<PC1740200606130842580953ec7b7213@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060613184927.6450eba2.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:42:58 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Haluk Durmus wrote:
> >
> >... so I must implemet it selfe four our use.
> >
> >But its nice to know that there will be soon a professional solution. 
> 
> 
> If you are going to do this yourself, the quickest way to get this into
> the base is to contribute your changes back. While some of us may be
> professional programmers, we are all just volunteers when it comes to
> Mailman.
>  
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


you are right !
May by I should then firt ask in Mailman Developers, if there is some on who is currently working 
on this task ....

regards,
Haluk 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 18:00:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:00:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613184927.6450eba2.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130900060531ec7b7039@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus 
>
>you are right !
>May by I should then firt ask in Mailman Developers, if there is some on who is currently working 
>on this task ....


There is an RFE at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1198375&group_id=103&atid=350103>.
It is currently unassigned, but it would certainly be worth asking on
Mailman Developers to see if anyone is now working on it or is
interested in working on it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at bergey.net  Tue Jun 13 18:51:33 2006
From: bob at bergey.net (Bob Bergey)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:51:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
Message-ID: <p06230916c0b49ca83309@[10.0.1.2]>

I have more than a dozen lists running in Mailman 2.1.4 on my Xserve, 
all running fine, except that now on just one list I'm unable to 
access the admin pages. The list is still sending messages okay, 
individual subscribers can access their subscription options, 
archives are fine, etc. -- but I get an error after trying to sign in 
with my admin password. It's processing the admin password, because 
if I intentionally type the wrong one, I get the authorization failed 
message. But if I type the correct password, I get a "Bug in Mailman 
2.1.4" message -- starts out like this:

------------begin copy------------

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a 
copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description 
of what happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
     main()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in main
     mlist.Save()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 526, in Save
     self.__save(dict)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 498, in __save
     os.unlink(fname_last)
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 
'/private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck.last'

------------end copy------------

Any suggestions on working around this? Admin pages for all other 
lists on the same server are working fine!

Bob
-- 

======================================================================
Bob Bergey -- 215-527-1048 -- Perkasie, PA     <mailto:bob at bergey.net>
Internet Services for the Printing Industry <http://www.printweb.org/>
Web Hosting & E-Mail Services:  BERGEY.NET    <http://www.bergey.net/>
======================================================================



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Tue Jun 13 19:09:54 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web based interface not working
In-Reply-To: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>
Message-ID: <C0B43F72.D0B2%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/13/06 12:24 AM, "jon lanclos" <jon at corporates.com> wrote:

> When I click on the link to go to the web interface - I get the following
> message ...
> 
> Safari can?t open the page
> ?http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone? because it could not
> connect to the server ?mail.corporates.com?.

In Terminal, type the command
host mail.corporates.com

Do you get back a sensible address?  From here, I get
# host mail.corporates.com
mail.corporates.com has address 216.61.158.217

but things might be set up so that you get a different, LAN-based address.

>From here, port 80 connections to 216.61.158.217 are immediately refused,
but that might very well make sense if use of that server is restricted.

# telnet 216.61.158.217 80
Trying 216.61.158.217...
telnet: connect to address 216.61.158.217: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

If Safari gets the same sort of response from its connection attempt (also a
telnet, although that's hidden from you), you are seeing the proper display
of the error by Safari.

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 19:21:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:21:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <p06230916c0b49ca83309@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131021550937ec7b7200@msapiro>

Bob Bergey wrote:

>I have more than a dozen lists running in Mailman 2.1.4 on my Xserve, 
>all running fine, except that now on just one list I'm unable to 
>access the admin pages. The list is still sending messages okay, 
>individual subscribers can access their subscription options, 
>archives are fine, etc. -- but I get an error after trying to sign in 
>with my admin password. It's processing the admin password, because 
>if I intentionally type the wrong one, I get the authorization failed 
>message. But if I type the correct password, I get a "Bug in Mailman 
>2.1.4" message -- starts out like this:
>
>------------begin copy------------
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a 
>copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description 
>of what happened. Thanks!
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in main
>     mlist.Save()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 526, in Save
>     self.__save(dict)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 498, in __save
>     os.unlink(fname_last)
>OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 
>'/private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck.last'
>
>------------end copy------------


Is there a /private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck.last file?
What are its permissions? Are they the same as
/private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck? How do these compare
with another list?

Mailman is in the process of saving the list config. It is in the last
step. It has saved the config to config.pck.tmp.host.pid and is trying
to do the equivalent of

rm config.pck.last
mv config.pck config.pck.last
mv config.pck.tmp.host.pid config.pck

and it gets the exception on the first step.

Are there more errors like this in Mailman's error log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Tue Jun 13 19:22:27 2006
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (Dave Stern)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:22:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Steve Campbell wrote:

> Bernd,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
>
>
>> On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>>
>> Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
>> should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
>> run?
>
> This originally sounded like a "too-simple-to-work" idea, but after thinking
> about it, it may be the best. If you mean QueueGroups with a separate runner
> for this particular list, then the milter would handle the throttle of the
> runner and relieve Mailman of the outgoing problems. It would really give me
> a little more control because of the sleep time of the queue runner along
> with the milter throttle. This will be a multiple-list server and only one
> or two lists would require the slowdown/pacing.
>
> Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested
> without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would occur.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>

Actually, that's exactly what we did. We had a tiny sun ultra10 and
ended up supporting a list of some 12,000 people. Aside from the 
standard tuning you'll read about in the Sendmail Performance Tuning
book by Christenson, I set up multiple queues limiting the maxquerunsize.

'Course now we're turning to linux and are considering using postfix 
instead but the theory is the same.

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 20:14:21 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:14:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec0b4ae5bc509@[192.168.2.144]>

At 1:22 PM -0400 2006-06-13, Dave Stern wrote:

>  'Course now we're turning to linux and are considering using postfix
>  instead but the theory is the same.

	Out-of-the-box, I believe that postfix is a better MTA to use for 
hosting mailing lists, because configuring sendmail to work well in 
that kind of environment can be tedious.  That said, the more 
filtering you do, the more I believe that sendmail can be made to 
outperform all other general-purpose MTAs on the planet.

	I currently use postfix at the two main sites that I help to 
administer (ntp.isc.org and python.org), and we've got quite a bit of 
filtering that we've set up, but I am confident that we could do at 
least as well (or better) if we were using sendmail instead.


	Of course, I'm a bit biased -- I was technical reviewer for 
Nick's book, and he was my co-author for a couple of invited talks I 
did on the subject of building large-scale e-mail systems, and he and 
I are now involved in another project.

	Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are all good MTAs.  For 99.9999% of 
what any site is likely to do, any of these programs should be more 
than adequate.  You should choose one of these programs based on your 
familiarity with the packages, the level of support you can get from 
your co-workers and the community, any requirements you may have for 
certain specific features, etc....


	But when considering switching hardware platforms, OSes, or MTAs, 
you should look at whether it makes sense to change all three of 
those factors at the same time, or if you should instead look at each 
one independently to see which one gives you the most bang for your 
buck.

	My guess is that Solaris 10 with ZFS on hardware of comparable 
performance (especially the I/O subsystem), will run rings around 
most anything else.  Postfix might be easier to maintain, and perform 
better out-of-the-box than sendmail, but if you're doing a lot of 
filtering (which most modern medium-to-large scale sites have to do 
in order to survive), then I strongly suspect that sendmail+milter is 
going to be able to be configured to meet or beat the performance you 
could get out of an equivalently configured postfix installation.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From peter.adams at umb.edu  Tue Jun 13 20:39:17 2006
From: peter.adams at umb.edu (Peter C.S. Adams)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec0b4ae5bc509@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <C0B47E95.276C7%peter.adams@umb.edu>

Thus spake Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>, circa 6/13/2006 2:14 PM:
> Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are all good MTAs.  For 99.9999% of
> what any site is likely to do, any of these programs should be more
> than adequate.

Brad, any thoughts on LSMTP from L-Soft?

Thanks,
   peter




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 21:10:43 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:10:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <C0B47E95.276C7%peter.adams@umb.edu>
References: <C0B47E95.276C7%peter.adams@umb.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200712c0b4bdd7661e@[192.168.2.144]>

At 2:39 PM -0400 2006-06-13, Peter C.S. Adams wrote:

>  Thus spake Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>, circa 6/13/2006 2:14 PM:
>>  Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are all good MTAs.  For 99.9999% of
>>  what any site is likely to do, any of these programs should be more
>>  than adequate.
>
>  Brad, any thoughts on LSMTP from L-Soft?

	Listserv is a very good mailing list server, probably one of the 
best on the planet.  But it is damn bloody expensive, as is LSMTP. 
But if you've got the money, I don't know of any better combination 
in this field.

	But that's only for mailing lists.  That doesn't do anything for 
general-purpose Internet e-mail activities.  Moreover, I don't know 
what kind of filtering they're doing on inbound processing, which is 
a very important factor for mailing lists these days.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ian at moiagroup.com  Tue Jun 13 20:55:02 2006
From: ian at moiagroup.com (Ian Johnson)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman locking up with "too many files open"
Message-ID: <448F0A06.4010706@moiagroup.com>


Hello,

I've been running a mailman list (for broadcast only) lately, and 
recently had a post that jammed up the system. Mailman would respond to 
other list requests, but the admin pages for the list in question would 
not appear, and the list itself was unresponsive. This is the error 
message that I see throughout the error log:

Jun 12 20:15:28 2006 qrunner(8679): libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared 
object file: Too many open files in system
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 270, in ?
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 230, in main
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 94, in _oneloop
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 158, in files
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): OSError :  [Errno 23] Too many open 
files in system: '/var/mailman/qfiles/news'
<mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
Three changes may have contributed to this problem:

1. list went from 4000 to 6800 members
2. the email sent out had a somewhat large attachement (~300k)
3. I recently turned on footer customization to allow user-specific 
unsubscribe instructions at the bottom.

It seems like I should either:
    1. increase max-open-file limit on system
   or
    2. turn off footer customization (if this would, in fact, solve the 
problem)

Any help or advice much appreciated.

Ian

-- 

Ian Johnson, MoiaGroup
ian at moiagroup.com
http://www.moiagroup.com
Phone: 520-628-1654
Fax: 520-628-1717
AOLIM, Yahoo: ianjohn27




From mail at ilovewhimsy.com  Tue Jun 13 21:27:43 2006
From: mail at ilovewhimsy.com (mail at ilovewhimsy.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments created by Mailman?
Message-ID: <20060613142743.oxnw9uxi5rco0o8c@ilovewhimsy.com>

I would be ever so grateful if someone can help me with this. I've  
spent many hours -- days, actually -- setting up a one-way newsletter.  
Everything now works fine, except -- when I send an HTML email,  
Mailman seems to duplicate my images (which I have NOT included as  
attachments--they're hosted on the Web) and send them along as  
attachments. I'm afraid that my subscribers won't even want to open my  
newsletter when they see what appear to be attachments. The files look  
like this:

    image6.gif (< 0.01 MB), image7.gif (< 0.01 MB), image8.gif (< 0.01  
MB), image9.gif (0.01 MB), image10.gif (< 0.01 MB), image11.jpg (0.02  
MB), image12.jpg (0.01 MB)

The file names you see here were created by the software. They DO NOT  
show up when I open a copy in my Outlook Express client--but I do get  
the paper clip attachment icon beside the email in the list view. I  
got these file names by sending a copy to my Hotmail account, where  
they do appear.

Since the newsletter is to advertise my latest artwork, I do need to  
send at least a couple of images!

I tried configuring the content filtering, but it's a bit over my  
head, and I only managed to strip the html.

Connie


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 13 22:09:24 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:09:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at><002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c68f25$43f8f970$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

David,

Thanks for the reply.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Stern" <dave at umiacs.umd.edu>
To: "Steve Campbell" <campbell at cnpapers.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>> Bernd,
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
>> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>>>
>>> Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
>>> should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
>>> run?
>>
>> This originally sounded like a "too-simple-to-work" idea, but after 
>> thinking
>> about it, it may be the best. If you mean QueueGroups with a separate 
>> runner
>> for this particular list, then the milter would handle the throttle of 
>> the
>> runner and relieve Mailman of the outgoing problems. It would really give 
>> me
>> a little more control because of the sleep time of the queue runner along
>> with the milter throttle. This will be a multiple-list server and only 
>> one
>> or two lists would require the slowdown/pacing.
>>
>> Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested
>> without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would 
>> occur.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Actually, that's exactly what we did. We had a tiny sun ultra10 and
> ended up supporting a list of some 12,000 people. Aside from the standard 
> tuning you'll read about in the Sendmail Performance Tuning
> book by Christenson, I set up multiple queues limiting the maxquerunsize.

I am seeing how the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE thing might work and replace the 
milter. There sure is a lot of sendmail configuration things to discover.

If you don't mind, can you explain some things for me, based on how you did 
this, please? I've been trying to read the Sendmail docs (I really need the 
Cookbook I think), and based on what I see:

1 - I could define the queue groups based on sender address, queueonly 
style, but then all of the queues are queueonly, as this is a 'global' 
option? The Delivery Mode is for all queues, defined once? Not a problem, 
though, as the differing queuerunners would handle the smaller lists just 
fine.
2 - The queuerunners are defined with a specific time interval somewhere in 
the sendmail config file, and Sendmail will run these without startup queue 
scripts? This one is really hazy for me as there are quite a few differing 
topics out there that don't really specify a Sendmail version. It appears 
the queues on 8.12 are quite different from 8.13, based on the facilities 
that Sendmail provides. I have upgraded one server to 8.13 just to see the 
differences.
3 - And finally, the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE  would only send out whatever it is 
set to until the next queue runner runs? The setting defines how many 
envelopes are processed until the next queue run and this becomes the 
throttle?

Thanks for any help

Steve
>
> 'Course now we're turning to linux and are considering using postfix 
> instead but the theory is the same.
>
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
>            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 22:32:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:32:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman locking up with "too many files open"
In-Reply-To: <448F0A06.4010706@moiagroup.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060613133229085979c426f8@msapiro>

Ian Johnson wrote:
>
>I've been running a mailman list (for broadcast only) lately, and 
>recently had a post that jammed up the system. Mailman would respond to 
>other list requests, but the admin pages for the list in question would 
>not appear, and the list itself was unresponsive. This is the error 
>message that I see throughout the error log:
>
>Jun 12 20:15:28 2006 qrunner(8679): libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared 
>object file: Too many open files in system
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
>line 230, in main
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 94, in _oneloop
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 158, in files
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): OSError :  [Errno 23] Too many open 
>files in system: '/var/mailman/qfiles/news'


It seems like there are missing lines in the above trace. Did you grep
on date?

Anyway, Switchboard is trying to obtain the contents of the 'news'
queue when the error occurs (this time - is it always this?).
Presumably, this is NewsRunner. It seems highly unlikely that this
specific occurrence has anything to do with a specific list.


>Three changes may have contributed to this problem:
>
>1. list went from 4000 to 6800 members
>2. the email sent out had a somewhat large attachement (~300k)
>3. I recently turned on footer customization to allow user-specific 
>unsubscribe instructions at the bottom.


None of these is likely to be the immediate cause.


>It seems like I should either:
>    1. increase max-open-file limit on system


What is the limit now?


>   or
>    2. turn off footer customization (if this would, in fact, solve the 
>problem)


I doubt this would help.

Have you tried 'mailmanctl restart'? How many runners are running? Do
you need to "clean up" from prior multiple starts? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 22:50:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:50:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments created by Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20060613142743.oxnw9uxi5rco0o8c@ilovewhimsy.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060613135010078179c42697@msapiro>

mail at ilovewhimsy.com wrote:
>  
>Everything now works fine, except -- when I send an HTML email,  
>Mailman seems to duplicate my images (which I have NOT included as  
>attachments--they're hosted on the Web) and send them along as  
>attachments. I'm afraid that my subscribers won't even want to open my  
>newsletter when they see what appear to be attachments. The files look  
>like this:
>
>    image6.gif (< 0.01 MB), image7.gif (< 0.01 MB), image8.gif (< 0.01  
>MB), image9.gif (0.01 MB), image10.gif (< 0.01 MB), image11.jpg (0.02  
>MB), image12.jpg (0.01 MB)
>
>The file names you see here were created by the software. They DO NOT  
>show up when I open a copy in my Outlook Express client--but I do get  
>the paper clip attachment icon beside the email in the list view. I  
>got these file names by sending a copy to my Hotmail account, where  
>they do appear.


You are emailing a "web page" including all it's content. I.e. the
links to the graphics are not being preserved as links to your web
site, but rather the content of those links is being included in the
mail. Whether or not these show as 'attachments' in addition to being
shown as images in the rendered HTML is a function of the email client
(MUA) used to read the mail. It has nothing to do with Mailman as you
can see from the hotmail copy (presumably sent directly, not via the
list).

You have to create your email with links to the content on your web
site, not with imbedded images. This is a function of how you create
the mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bernd at firmix.at  Tue Jun 13 23:38:23 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:38:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 10:18 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:17 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
> 
> >  On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
> >  [...]
> >>  Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
> >
> >  Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
> >  should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
> >  run?
> 
> 	I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the 

You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA
accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually
don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail
with a long list of rcpt-to:?).

> first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take 
> everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue. 
> This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA) 
> configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.

Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.
And if you do this "normally", you shouldn't need any throttling or
other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware.

> 	Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing 
> that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an 
> additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.

Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for
this like "number of proceses", etc. and I assume that other MTAs like
postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways).

> 	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of 
> sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery 
> Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a 
> fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant 
> period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding 
> the picture for Mailman.

Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).

> 	And I'm sure there are other factors or issues to be considered, 
> although I haven't thought of any others off the top of my head.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From bernd at firmix.at  Tue Jun 13 23:42:50 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:42:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <1150234970.3043.18.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 11:39 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
[...]
> Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested 
> without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would occur.

First you throw the 22.000 mail in the mail queue. And the normal queue
run will deliver these emails + all others in the queue. So you probably
want to limit the queue runner anyways (say not more than 100 - or
whatever works good enough - concurrent processes delivering email).

So the throttling is done within the MTA - your host is delivering
"only" 100 emails in parallel. If every mail takes around 10s, you need
around 36 minutes to deliver (or at least try to) all emails. YMMV ...

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun 14 00:00:22 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:00:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
Message-ID: <448F3576.9050805@freestandards.org>

I have been getting rid of lists lately and I need
to forward old lists to the new lists. I am using
mailman 2.1.6 and the forwards are not working.
I also recently upgraded the OS from Debian to SuSE 10.0.

Any ideas anyone??

Thanks,

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 00:12:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:12:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
In-Reply-To: <448F3576.9050805@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061315121305318ab4b420@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>I have been getting rid of lists lately and I need
>to forward old lists to the new lists. I am using
>mailman 2.1.6 and the forwards are not working.
>I also recently upgraded the OS from Debian to SuSE 10.0.


How are you forwarding? What's not working?

Note that if the new list has require_explicit_destination Yes, you
will probably need to put the old list address in acceptable_aliases
in order for a post to the old list to not be held for implicit
destination by the new list. (These settings are on Privacy
options...->Recipient filters.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu  Tue Jun 13 23:59:00 2006
From: nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu (Nathan K. Stazewski)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:59:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts aren't
	going out
Message-ID: <448F3524.7090900@swarthmore.edu>

I apologize if this is in the archives.  I searched for a while and 
couldn't find this issue.  I just did a fresh install of Mailman 2.1.8 
on OS X 10.4 (Tiger).  I have it to the point where I can create lists 
through the web interface and sign people up for the lists.   When I 
subscribe an address to a list (or create a new list) an e-mail is sent 
and received by the appropriate parties.  If I post to the listserv, 
though, no e-mail ever comes through.  I thought I'd improperly setup 
postfix until I noticed the other e-mails were being properly sent.  The 
mail server is apparently at least partially working, but I can't get a 
post through at all.  I've looked through the smtp and smtp-failure 
logs, and don't notice any obvious problems.  Anyone have any educated 
guesses as to some places that I should check (I'm not sure if this is a 
postfix problem or a mailman problem currently).  I can definitely 
provide my current configuration settings if anyone has any ideas, but 
I'm not even sure what would be helpful right now.

-- 
Nate



From hdu at qualigo.de  Wed Jun 14 00:25:34 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 01:25:34 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending attachment as link
Message-ID: <20060614012534.b26db53b.hdu@qualigo.de>

Hello,

can mailman change attachmets to links also for outgoing mails similar to the mail archive.
 
thx,
Haluk


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 00:37:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending attachment as link
In-Reply-To: <20060614012534.b26db53b.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061315372505008ab4b40d@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus wrote:
>
>can mailman change attachmets to links also for outgoing mails similar to the mail archive.


Yes. In the list's admin interface, set Non-digest
options->scrub_nondigest to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hdu at qualigo.de  Wed Jun 14 00:39:50 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 01:39:50 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending attachment as link
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061315372505008ab4b40d@msapiro>
References: <20060614012534.b26db53b.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<PC17402006061315372505008ab4b40d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060614013950.c7a8499e.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:37:25 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Haluk Durmus wrote:
> >
> >can mailman change attachmets to links also for outgoing mails similar to the mail archive.
> 
> 
> Yes. In the list's admin interface, set Non-digest
> options->scrub_nondigest to Yes.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


Why I didn't saw this !

thanks you very much :)

Haluk



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 00:41:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
	aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <448F3524.7090900@swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131541500109fb016ebf@msapiro>

Nathan K. Stazewski wrote:

>I just did a fresh install of Mailman 2.1.8 
>on OS X 10.4 (Tiger).  I have it to the point where I can create lists 
>through the web interface and sign people up for the lists.   When I 
>subscribe an address to a list (or create a new list) an e-mail is sent 
>and received by the appropriate parties.  If I post to the listserv, 
>though, no e-mail ever comes through.  I thought I'd improperly setup 
>postfix until I noticed the other e-mails were being properly sent.  The 
>mail server is apparently at least partially working, but I can't get a 
>post through at all.  I've looked through the smtp and smtp-failure 
>logs, and don't notice any obvious problems.  Anyone have any educated 
>guesses as to some places that I should check (I'm not sure if this is a 
>postfix problem or a mailman problem currently).  I can definitely 
>provide my current configuration settings if anyone has any ideas, but 
>I'm not even sure what would be helpful right now.


See both
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 00:36:01 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:36:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
	<1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>

At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>>  	I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the
>
>  You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA
>  accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually
>  don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail
>  with a long list of rcpt-to:?).

	Mailman can do that, depending on how you configure the 
MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter.

>>  first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take
>>  everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue.
>>  This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA)
>>  configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.
>
>  Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.

	True.

>  And if you do this "normally", you shouldn't need any throttling or
>  other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware.

	Also true.

>>  	Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing
>>  that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an
>>  additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.
>
>  Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for
>  this like "number of proceses", etc. and I assume that other MTAs like
>  postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways).

	Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the 
number of messages that are sent per period of time.  They control 
the number of a given set of processes you can have at any given 
period of time, but that has only the smallest impact on the number 
of messages sent per hour.

>>  	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of
>>  sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery
>>  Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a
>>  fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant
>>  period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding
>>  the picture for Mailman.
>
>  Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
>  enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).

	I'm not convinced.  If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and 
a limit of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a 
lot longer than four hours to get out all those messages.

	I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling 
because your provider requires it, that you are most definitely using 
the wrong provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 00:37:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:37:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150234970.3043.18.camel@gimli.at.home>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150234970.3043.18.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <p06200715c0b4ee60c667@[192.168.2.144]>

At 11:42 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>  First you throw the 22.000 mail in the mail queue. And the normal queue
>  run will deliver these emails + all others in the queue. So you probably
>  want to limit the queue runner anyways (say not more than 100 - or
>  whatever works good enough - concurrent processes delivering email).
>
>  So the throttling is done within the MTA - your host is delivering
>  "only" 100 emails in parallel. If every mail takes around 10s, you need
>  around 36 minutes to deliver (or at least try to) all emails. YMMV ...

	Read Nick's book.  Trust me, your mileage will most definitely vary.

	Controlling the number of processes doesn't help.  To make this 
effective, you really do need to have direct control over the number 
of messages sent per hour.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun 14 01:51:36 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:51:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061315121305318ab4b420@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061315121305318ab4b420@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448F4F88.3070706@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have been getting rid of lists lately and I need
>>to forward old lists to the new lists. I am using
>>mailman 2.1.6 and the forwards are not working.
>>I also recently upgraded the OS from Debian to SuSE 10.0.
> 
> 
> 
> How are you forwarding? What's not working?
> 
> Note that if the new list has require_explicit_destination Yes, you
> will probably need to put the old list address in acceptable_aliases
> in order for a post to the old list to not be held for implicit
> destination by the new list. (These settings are on Privacy
> options...->Recipient filters.)
> 

Thank you Mark. That worked. Do I also have to put the aliases,

old-list-admin
old-list-bounces
old-list-confirm
old-list-join
old-list-leave
old-list-owner
old-list-request
old-list-subscribe
old-list-unsubscribe

that point to,

new-list-admin
new-list-bounces
new-list-confirm
new-list-join
new-list-leave
new-list-owner
new-list-request
new-list-subscribe
new-list-unsubscribe

,respectively? Or does just old-list -> new-list suffice?

Thanks,

LDB



From kliu at real.com  Wed Jun 14 02:02:25 2006
From: kliu at real.com (Kinson Liu)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
Message-ID: <448F5211.5090203@real.com>

  Hi there,

The product of my company uses mailman and we have been receiving spams 
from time to time. The spams are not directly from spammers, but 
mailman-bounces and other valid list with -bounces at the end of the 
list name. We've been looking through bounce processing on the admin 
part, but it doesn't seem to be the solution of this question since it 
is only for disabling email accounts. Spam filter under privacy option 
seems the right place, but the two textareas do not make too much sense 
to me. Please help. One of the sample is pasted below.

Regards,

Kinson


*From:* mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org 
[mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org] *On Behalf Of *dacey 
aseria
*Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 7:38 AM
*To:* some-valid-email-list at helixcommunity.org
*Subject:* I'm not a follower... I'm a leader with the same idea

 

*Hearty reception,*


**untavirazolas[dot]com**


----

she sought in his face signs of the impression she was making on him. 
She tried to please him, not by her words only, but in her whole person. 
For his sake it was that she now lavished more care on her dress than 
before. She caught herself in reveries on what might have been, if she 
had not been married and he had been free. She blushed with emotion when 
he came into the room, she could not repress a smile of rapture when he 
said anything amiable to her. For several days now Countess Lidia 
Ivanovna had been in a state of intense excitement. She had learned that 
Anna and Vronsky were in Petersburg. Alexey Alexandrovitch must be saved 
from seeing her, he must be saved even from the torturing knowledge that 
that awful woman was in the same town with him, and that he might meet 
her any minute. Lidia Ivanovna made inquiries through her friends as to 
what those _infamous people_, as she called Anna and Vronsky, intended 
doing, and she endeavored so to guide every movement of her friend 
during those days that he could not come across them. The young 
adjutant, an acquaintance of Vronsky, through whom she obtained her 
information, and who hoped through Countess Lidia Ivanovna to obtain a 
concession, told her that they had finished their business and were 
going away next day. Lidia Ivanovna had already begun to calm down, when 
the next morning a note was brought her, the handwriting of which she 
recognized with horror. It was the handwriting of Anna Karenina. The 
envelope was of

 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kinson Liu* | Software Development Engineer | RealNetworks, Inc. | 
kliu at real.com | 206.892.6177


From bernd at firmix.at  Wed Jun 14 02:02:26 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:02:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
	<1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <1150243346.3043.58.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 17:36 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
[...]
> >>  	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of
> >>  sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery
> >>  Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a
> >>  fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant
> >>  period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding
> >>  the picture for Mailman.
> >
> >  Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
> >  enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).
> 
> 	I'm not convinced.  If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and 
> a limit of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a 
> lot longer than four hours to get out all those messages.

Sure. I calculated more mails per hour ....

> 	I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling 
> because your provider requires it, that you are most definitely using 
> the wrong provider.

Of course.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 02:11:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:11:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
In-Reply-To: <448F4F88.3070706@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061317114804795114bb4f@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>Thank you Mark. That worked. Do I also have to put the aliases,
>
>old-list-admin
>old-list-bounces
>old-list-confirm
>old-list-join
>old-list-leave
>old-list-owner
>old-list-request
>old-list-subscribe
>old-list-unsubscribe
>
>that point to,
>
>new-list-admin
>new-list-bounces
>new-list-confirm
>new-list-join
>new-list-leave
>new-list-owner
>new-list-request
>new-list-subscribe
>new-list-unsubscribe
>
>,respectively? Or does just old-list -> new-list suffice?


You definitely do not need

old-list-admin
old-list-bounces
old-list-confirm

admin is an old, deprecated address now a synonym for bounces, and
bounces and confirmations will all be to messages from new-list so you
dont need bounces or confirm.

Whether you want owner/request/join/subscribe depends on whether or not
you still want to support these functions for the old list, or if
people should be using the new list name for these.

I would put in aliases for leave/unsubscribe just to not cause
additional frustration for someone who wants to unsubscribe and still
thinks it's the old list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 02:26:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:26:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
In-Reply-To: <448F5211.5090203@real.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131726580229e8f633df@msapiro>

Kinson Liu wrote:
>
>The product of my company uses mailman and we have been receiving spams 
>from time to time. The spams are not directly from spammers, but 
>mailman-bounces and other valid list with -bounces at the end of the 
>list name. We've been looking through bounce processing on the admin 
>part, but it doesn't seem to be the solution of this question since it 
>is only for disabling email accounts. Spam filter under privacy option 
>seems the right place, but the two textareas do not make too much sense 
>to me. Please help. One of the sample is pasted below.


I'm sorry. I do not understand what your problem is.


>*From:* mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org 
>[mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org] *On Behalf Of *dacey 
>aseria
>*Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 7:38 AM
>*To:* some-valid-email-list at helixcommunity.org
>*Subject:* I'm not a follower... I'm a leader with the same idea


This looks like a Microsoft Outlook rendering of a message from the
'mailman' list posted to the list by "dacey aseria". This is the way
Outlook would show a message with

From: dacey aseria <user at example.com>

and

Sender: mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org

This would be the Sender in a message from the
mailman at lists.helixcommunity.org list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
for more info. The Sender is set to the list-bounces address to help
get actual bounces returned to the proper place.

Is dacey aseria a list member? It looks like someone has spammed your
list by spoofing the address of a list member. There is no good way to
deal with this in Mailman although Privacy option->Spam filters may
help. The real solution is to do spam filtering in the incoming MTA
before the mail ever gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kliu at real.com  Wed Jun 14 02:31:20 2006
From: kliu at real.com (Kinson Liu)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:31:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606131726580229e8f633df@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606131726580229e8f633df@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448F58D8.50008@real.com>

My question is simply why we are getting spams from 
mailman-bounces at doman.name ?

Kinson

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Kinson Liu wrote:
>   
>> The product of my company uses mailman and we have been receiving spams 
>>     
> >from time to time. The spams are not directly from spammers, but 
>   
>> mailman-bounces and other valid list with -bounces at the end of the 
>> list name. We've been looking through bounce processing on the admin 
>> part, but it doesn't seem to be the solution of this question since it 
>> is only for disabling email accounts. Spam filter under privacy option 
>> seems the right place, but the two textareas do not make too much sense 
>> to me. Please help. One of the sample is pasted below.
>>     
>
>
> I'm sorry. I do not understand what your problem is.
>
>
>   
>> *From:* mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org 
>> [mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org] *On Behalf Of *dacey 
>> aseria
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 7:38 AM
>> *To:* some-valid-email-list at helixcommunity.org
>> *Subject:* I'm not a follower... I'm a leader with the same idea
>>     
>
>
> This looks like a Microsoft Outlook rendering of a message from the
> 'mailman' list posted to the list by "dacey aseria". This is the way
> Outlook would show a message with
>
> From: dacey aseria <user at example.com>
>
> and
>
> Sender: mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org
>
> This would be the Sender in a message from the
> mailman at lists.helixcommunity.org list. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
> for more info. The Sender is set to the list-bounces address to help
> get actual bounces returned to the proper place.
>
> Is dacey aseria a list member? It looks like someone has spammed your
> list by spoofing the address of a list member. There is no good way to
> deal with this in Mailman although Privacy option->Spam filters may
> help. The real solution is to do spam filtering in the incoming MTA
> before the mail ever gets to Mailman.
>
>   

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kinson Liu* | Software Development Engineer | RealNetworks, Inc. | 
kliu at real.com | 206.892.6177


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 02:47:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:47:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
In-Reply-To: <448F58D8.50008@real.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131747250229e451755e@msapiro>

Kinson Liu wrote:
>
>My question is simply why we are getting spams from 
>mailman-bounces at doman.name ?

And my question then is are these spams being delivered from your
mailman list to the subscribers of that list or are they just spam
that happens to spoof mailman-bounces at doman.name as the originator.

If they are coming from your mailman list, the Sender: will be
mailman-bounces at doman.name just as any post from any of your lists has
a Sender: of listname-bounces at doman.name so that bounces can be
returned there and processed.

If they are not coming from your list, then Mailman is not involved,
and someone is just spoofing mailman-bounces at doman.name as the
originator.

If your question is why is the mail being shown as

From: mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org On Behalf Of dacey aseria

instead of just as

From: dacey aseria

see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From campbell at cnpapers.com  Wed Jun 14 14:58:00 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:58:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

Brad, and all,

Firstly, thanks, for all the responses on an OT type question. I have 
learned quite a bit.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>
>>>  I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the

Does this mean using a second sendmail.cf or more like a second queue 
runner?
>>
>>  You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA
>>  accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually
>>  don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail
>>  with a long list of rcpt-to:?).
>
> Mailman can do that, depending on how you configure the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS 
> parameter.

>
>>>  first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take
>>>  everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue.
>>>  This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA)
>>>  configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.
>>
>>  Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.

But if my list has 22,000 members, isn't that what I am doing? Or is it 
dependent on the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter, as mentioned above? I'm not clear 
on your train of thought.
>
> True.
>
>>  And if you do this "normally", you shouldn't need any throttling or
>>  other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware.

Right now, hardware is fine. This all came about because of mail list 
software (not Mailman) that does a few things it shouldn't be doing. 
Firstly, it's running on a dedicated web server. This was sort of out of my 
control. When the list starts outputting, the web sites suffer, but do not 
fail to respond. Secondly, the mail list software does not seem to handle 
bounce conditions. When the list sends to non-existent members, bounces are 
returned through one of our primary MX gateways, which tend to clog it up. 
Thirdly, a lot of the above bounces are from AOL, Verizon, etc, which have 
deemed the list sort of abusive, and do not accept mail from the list, even 
though this is purely a subscription type mailing, so I wanted to switch to 
Mailman for the bounce handling, and throttle so as not to infuriate the 
AOLs and Verizons. >
> Also true.
>
>>>  Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing
>>>  that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an
>>>  additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.
>>
>>  Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for
>>  this like "number of proceses", etc. and I assume that other MTAs like
>>  postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways).
>
> Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the number of 
> messages that are sent per period of time.  They control the number of a 
> given set of processes you can have at any given period of time, but that 
> has only the smallest impact on the number of messages sent per hour.

Does this include the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE, which I interpret as number of 
envelops to send per queue runner instance?
>
>>>  You would also need to make sure that the first instance of
>>>  sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery
>>>  Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a
>>>  fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant
>>>  period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding
>>>  the picture for Mailman.

Another sendmail question - how do you snuff the DSN for a sendmail 
instance? Wouldn't the queueonly delivery method do that, or is there a 
problem after that?
>>
>>  Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
>>  enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).
>
> I'm not convinced.  If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and a limit 
> of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a lot longer than 
> four hours to get out all those messages.
>
> I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling because your 
> provider requires it, that you are most definitely using the wrong 
> provider.
>

Our network bandwidth provider does not limit our output, and this is not 
the case at all.

Thanks for all the answers and questions.

Steve

> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 15:05:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 06:05:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
In-Reply-To: <20060614010045.44ce31b6.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061406050500934a8eade2@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>Suffice it to say, I've followed these directions, yet I'm still
>getting the 404.  What am I doing wrong?


What is the 'Alias /pipermail/' directive in your httpd.conf?

What is the path to Mailman's archives/ directory?

What do the following show?

ls -l /path/to/archives/
ls -l /path/to/archives/private/
ls -l /path/to/archives/public/

What URI gives the 404?

What's in the apache error-log file for this 404?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 19:27:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:27:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>

At 8:58 AM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:

>>>   Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.
>
>  But if my list has 22,000 members, isn't that what I am doing?

	Maybe, but not necessarily.

>                                                                 Or is
>  it dependent on the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter, as mentioned above?

	Yes, it is.  If you have VERP and/or personalization turned on, 
then you are actually sending a unique copy of each message to each 
recipient, and the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter does not come into play.

>                        Secondly, the mail list software does not seem to
>  handle bounce conditions.

	That's bad news.  Really bad.

>                            When the list sends to non-existent members,
>  bounces are returned through one of our primary MX gateways, which tend
>  to clog it up.

	Mailing list traffic should be independent of your main mail 
servers.  If the recipient machines are acting correctly, none of 
their bounces should be going back to the main mail servers, and 
mailing list traffic should not affect them.

>                 Thirdly, a lot of the above bounces are from AOL, Verizon,
>  etc, which have deemed the list sort of abusive, and do not accept mail
>  from the list, even though this is purely a subscription type mailing, so
>  I wanted to switch to Mailman for the bounce handling, and throttle so as
>  not to infuriate the AOLs and Verizons.

	If your mailing list software is not handling bounces properly, 
then I think I would have probably declared it to be spam-ish myself. 
That said, now that you've annoyed AOL and others, you're not going 
to get on their good side just by switching to Mailman.  You'll also 
need to get on their "whitelist" system.

>>  Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the number
>>  of messages that are sent per period of time.  They control the number of
>>  a given set of processes you can have at any given period of time, but
>>  that has only the smallest impact on the number of messages sent per hour.
>
>  Does this include the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE, which I interpret as number
>  of envelops to send per queue runner instance?

	Yes, but if each envelope is to 500 people (or less), then you'll 
need to set your MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE to an appropriately small number. 
More importantly, you'll need to make sure that you never allow more 
than one queue runner to be running at a time, and no more than one 
queue runner to be run per hour (or whatever).

	This is not likely to clear your mail queues in a reasonable 
period of time, and the actual amount of mail throughput per hour 
will be exceptionally bursty.  Even then, it will only approximate 
the real controls that you want, which is the number of recipients 
that are delivered per hour, and only in the vaguest possible manner.


	Trust me, if you're actually going to do throttling, you need to 
do it in a better and more controlled way.

>  Another sendmail question - how do you snuff the DSN for a sendmail
>  instance? Wouldn't the queueonly delivery method do that, or is there
>  a problem after that?

	The best way to do that is to change the period of time after 
which sendmail would generate a DSN for a given message based on how 
long that message has been in the queue.  You do this by changing the 
sendmail.cf.

>  Our network bandwidth provider does not limit our output, and this is not
>  the case at all.

	In that case, with a more intelligent configuration and a better 
mailing list manager, I don't think you're going to need throttling.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Wed Jun 14 21:02:52 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:02:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

Brad,

Ok, I've went around the world with this one, so maybe a fresh start is in 
order. I'm sure everyone is getting tired of seeing these "Throttling 
output" messages, especially the ones that don't digest. The more I think 
about it, the less complex it really becomes, thanks to all of the replies. 
So here is what I'm thinking and if someone steps on any point, sobeit, and 
I'll just about give up on this one.

1.   Set up a Mailman list in a normal fashion.
2.   Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but 
create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure 
this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of 
possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I 
hope this is do-able.
3   Run a sendmail qrunner with the specific -q option along with the 
proper -OMaxQueueRunSize option. This would point to the normal mqueue 
directory, or wherever Mailman puts the output files. This is fairly tunable 
upon a few runs. The MAX_SMTP_RCPTS config, -q, and -O commandline options 
should be enough.
4.   Let the dept. that set this up resolve the AOL/Verizon thing. The IT 
dept didn't have  much 'request for input' on this one.
5.   Move all of this to it's own server.

Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped 
command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what. But 
all of this doesn't require a milter, is common sendmail stuff, and a slight 
change in the way Mailman handles the outgoing files (or maybe not). No 
queuegroups necessary either.

Don't know why it didn't hit me originally.

Thanks, and maybe this will go away if anyone can tell me about #2.

Steve






From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 21:52:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:52:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>

At 3:02 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:

>  2.   Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but
>  create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure
>  this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of
>  possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I
>  hope this is do-able.

	This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to 
"fix" within Mailman.

>  5.   Move all of this to it's own server.

	That's a pretty big point.  Mailing list servers should not be 
dependent on the normal mail servers, and vice-versa.

	In fact, I suspect that once you move the mailing list handling 
onto a separate server, all the need for any kind of throttling will 
go away completely.

>  Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped
>  command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what.

	It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying 
the configuration file.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Wed Jun 14 22:43:51 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:43:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Steve Campbell" <campbell at cnpapers.com>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> At 3:02 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>>  2.   Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, 
>> but
>>  create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not 
>> sure
>>  this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a 
>> lot of
>>  possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so 
>> I
>>  hope this is do-able.
>
> This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to "fix" within 
> Mailman.

I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory. 
I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its 
own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner 
with a few sendmail configs.
>
>>  5.   Move all of this to it's own server.
>
> That's a pretty big point.  Mailing list servers should not be dependent 
> on the normal mail servers, and vice-versa.
>
> In fact, I suspect that once you move the mailing list handling onto a 
> separate server, all the need for any kind of throttling will go away 
> completely.

Along with switching to Mailman, of course, to finally handle bounces.

>
>>  Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail 
>> alias/piped
>>  command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what.
>
> It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the 
> configuration file.

I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!!

Thanks all for the many replies (and great patience), and helping me 
understand a little more of how Mailman works.

Steve


>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
> 




From hdu at qualigo.de  Wed Jun 14 22:43:06 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:43:06 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] post with members name
Message-ID: <20060614234307.448d0b30.hdu@qualigo.de>

Hello,

Is ist posible to use the members name from mailman, than 
the name providet by the email-client, for posting ?

I tried to set alias for mailman but when sending a mail the 
name stored in the e-mail client has a higher priority.

thanks,
Haluk


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 23:05:02 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:05:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>
	<001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <p06200724c0b6263dde56@[192.168.2.144]>

At 4:43 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:

>>  This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to "fix"
>>  within Mailman.
>
>  I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory.

	It has it's own internal queue directory, yes.  But it does not 
deliver directly to the MTA mqueue directory, no.  Instead, it hands 
the message off to the MTA that it is configured to use -- usually 
port 25 on the "localhost".

>  I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its
>  own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner
>  with a few sendmail configs.

	Not correct.  The easiest way would be to run two copies of the 
MTA on your machine.  One copy listens on port 25, and runs normally. 
This is for inbound mail.

	The other copy of sendmail listens on a different port (maybe 
port 26) on the "localhost" interface only, and on the command-line 
you give it a different configuration file to work from -- that 
configuration file causes the second copy of sendmail to work in 
"queueonly" mode, does not have any queue runners, and has a 
different mqueue directory.  You then control the queue runners for 
that second instance of sendmail yourself.

	You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this 
second copy of sendmail.


	I still think that this is not a good configuration for doing 
throttling, because you have only indirect controls over the number 
of message deliveries that occur in a given unit of time.

	The milter technique would be a much more direct method of 
control over throttling.

>>  It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying
>>  the configuration file.
>
>  I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!!

	Yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From mdbiker at goldray.com  Wed Jun 14 23:18:54 2006
From: mdbiker at goldray.com (Harold Goldstein)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:18:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>

i am an administrator (but i didn't install it nor do i have access to the 
server) of an announcement only mailing list.

despite having 3 addresses listed as administrator and moderator, we have 
only been able to use one address to post. that was ok till last week when 
we were subject to a spoofing attack appearing to come from that address.

i removed that address, having forgotten about the problem in posting from 
the others. now i cannot post to the list at all even though i returned the 
removed address.

for each i get back a "this is an announcement list - send your email to 
xxxx for posting" and now even xxxx cannot post.

so the problem is that even though listed as admin/mod i cannot post.
(i can get around this by holding posts and then approving them but i'd 
rather post directly)

thanks

                                                               harold ...
------------------------------------------------------------
  Harold Goldstein - mdbiker at goldray.com ~~,__o   ~^^
  Goldray Consulting:  http://goldray.com/ ~_-\  < ,   ~  o \
  Web Development/Internet Training         (*)/ (*)  ~  / {   \
  Save The Apes: http://bushmeat.net/                     /   { o}
amber for everyone - http://amberlady.com - fossil bugs too  

From bob at morsemedia.net  Wed Jun 14 19:43:11 2006
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Bob Morse)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:43:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved servers, lists not working
Message-ID: <C0B598BF.30678%bob@morsemedia.net>

I moved a bunch of accounts from one server to another. Everything
transferred, lists, archives, settings, etc. But when subscribers send an
email to any of the lists they messages don't get distributed,  or in the
case of moderated lists, the messages don't go in to the moderator que.




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:02:21 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <p06230917c0b4a5d25910@10.0.1.2>
References: <p06230916c0b49ca83309@10.0.1.2>
	<6fbe3da00606130957n5508863cp346d220f18cb87b@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230917c0b4a5d25910@10.0.1.2>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606141602h22290151h1ac64b4ada9275c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Bob Bergey <bob at bergey.net> wrote:
> At 11:57 AM -0500 on 6/13/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> >  http://rentzsch.com/macosx/mailmanWorkaround
> Wow -- that's exactly my problem! Thanks for the tip -- I'll try it
> later today.

Let us know how it goes.

> I'm a little scared to upgrade -- still running OS 10.3.9 on my
> Xserve, and have been reluctant to upgrade Mailman, mainly because
> I'm just not familiar with the process. Have you upgraded Mailman on
> an Xserve, and had any problems?
I haven't; all of our machines are Debian GNU/Linux. The upgrade
should be fairly standard, but don't take my word for it. If you can,
it might be wiser to try the upgrade on a different machine (another,
similar Xserve, but one you don't rely on for a functional mailman) to
get the feel of it.

P.S., Please CC the list on all replies.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:06:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:06:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/06, Harold Goldstein <mdbiker at goldray.com> wrote:
> i am an administrator (but i didn't install it nor do i have access to the
> server) of an announcement only mailing list.
>
> despite having 3 addresses listed as administrator and moderator, we have
> only been able to use one address to post. that was ok till last week when
> we were subject to a spoofing attack appearing to come from that address.

The 'administrator' and 'moderator' addresses aren't considered when
determining if a message is to be allowed.

Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to
'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy
Options' in the web interface.

ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved:
<list admin password>' (this is better, since it's totally proof
against spoofing. Man-in-the-middle attacks, however, can
theoretically intercept your mail on the way to the server, and get
the password out of it. FYI.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:06:51 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:06:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved servers, lists not working
In-Reply-To: <C0B598BF.30678%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C0B598BF.30678%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606141606y46c2282al5a5ff29808fe7a57@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/06, Bob Morse <bob at morsemedia.net> wrote:
> I moved a bunch of accounts from one server to another. Everything
> transferred, lists, archives, settings, etc. But when subscribers send an
> email to any of the lists they messages don't get distributed,  or in the
> case of moderated lists, the messages don't go in to the moderator que.

Can you check the various mailman and MTA logs to see if the mails are
even reaching mailman?

This sounds like an MTA setting to me. Aliases not set or not being obeyed?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mdbiker at goldray.com  Thu Jun 15 01:38:20 2006
From: mdbiker at goldray.com (Harold Goldstein)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:38:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614193615.02990520@mail.goldray.com>

thanks for your response

>Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to 
>'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy
>Options' in the web interface.

hmmm ... ok ... but why would i be considered a 'non-member' ... i never 
would have guessed to use this.

>ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: <list 
>admin password>' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing.

an excellent approach ... i take it that the <> characters ARE included in 
the above??

thanks again

                                                               harold ...
------------------------------------------------------------
  Harold Goldstein - mdbiker at goldray.com ~~,__o   ~^^
  Goldray Consulting:  http://goldray.com/ ~_-\  < ,   ~  o \
  Web Development/Internet Training         (*)/ (*)  ~  / {   \
  Save The Apes: http://bushmeat.net/                     /   { o}
amber for everyone - http://amberlady.com - fossil bugs too  

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 01:47:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:47:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] post with members name
In-Reply-To: <20060614234307.448d0b30.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606141647030515839b1f46@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus wrote:
>
>Is ist posible to use the members name from mailman, than 
>the name providet by the email-client, for posting ?
>
>I tried to set alias for mailman but when sending a mail the 
>name stored in the e-mail client has a higher priority.


It's not a matter of priority. Unless the list is anonymous, Mailman
doesn't change the From: header in the post at all.

The member's real name is stored if provided and can be reported on
some member lists. Beyond that, it is only provided in a header/footer
replacement variable if the list is personalized and in the To: header
if personalize is Full.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 01:58:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:58:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614193615.02990520@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061416585907034e0480ba@msapiro>

Harold Goldstein wrote:

>thanks for your response
>
>>Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to 
>>'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy
>>Options' in the web interface.
>
>hmmm ... ok ... but why would i be considered a 'non-member' ... i never 
>would have guessed to use this.


Or, just turn off your "mod" flag in the membership list (assuming you
are a member).


>
>>ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: <list 
>>admin password>' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing.
>
>an excellent approach ... i take it that the <> characters ARE included in 
>the above??


No, they aren't. And this is a better method because it is spoof proof.
I.e. allow no one to post just because of who they claim to be -
require the password.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp>.


Also note that to use the "Approved: pw" as a first line, it must be in
a plain text part which is the first plain text part of the message.
Also, prior to Mailman 2.1.7, it must not be in any other parts such
as a text/html alternative part, or it will leak to the list.

The better method is to add it as an actual header, but many people's
MUA's will not do this conveniently or at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Jun 15 01:49:25 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:49:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614193615.02990520@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <C0B60AB5.1E9E2%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/14/06 6:38 PM, Harold Goldstein at mdbiker at goldray.com wrote:

>> ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: <list
>> admin password>' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing.
> 
> an excellent approach ... i take it that the <> characters ARE included in
> the above??

No they are not. Just
Approved: password

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From campbell at cnpapers.com  Thu Jun 15 02:59:44 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (campbell at cnpapers.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:59:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p06200724c0b6263dde56@[192.168.2.144]>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>
	<001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200724c0b6263dde56@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <1150333184.4490b1004ec14@perdition.cnpapers.net>

Quoting Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>:

> At 4:43 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:
> 
> >>  This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to "fix"
> >>  within Mailman.
> >
> >  I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue
> directory.
> 
> 	It has it's own internal queue directory, yes.  But it does not 
> deliver directly to the MTA mqueue directory, no.  Instead, it hands 
> the message off to the MTA that it is configured to use -- usually 
> port 25 on the "localhost".

It eventually ends up there in mqueue, I saw, but I couldn't see how. I did know
that there is a nice array defined in Defaults.py, and the input and output
queues are in and out respectively. I also say an SMTPPORT config there, but
wasn't sure if these could be overridden by site/list mm_cfg.py files.
> 
> >  I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its
> >  own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner
> >  with a few sendmail configs.
> 
> 	Not correct.  The easiest way would be to run two copies of the 
> MTA on your machine.  One copy listens on port 25, and runs normally. 
> This is for inbound mail.

> 
> 	The other copy of sendmail listens on a different port (maybe 
> port 26) on the "localhost" interface only, and on the command-line 
> you give it a different configuration file to work from -- that 
> configuration file causes the second copy of sendmail to work in 
> "queueonly" mode, does not have any queue runners, and has a 
> different mqueue directory.  You then control the queue runners for 
> that second instance of sendmail yourself.
> 
> 	You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this 
> second copy of sendmail.
> 
I'm assuming you mean separate sendmail.cf files here when you say 'copy'. I'd
have to think how the second one would differ, and that just running instances
of sendmail configured on the command line wouldn't cut it (much like
MailScanner does, if you're familiar with it's startup scripts).

> 
> 	I still think that this is not a good configuration for doing 
> throttling, because you have only indirect controls over the number 
> of message deliveries that occur in a given unit of time.
> 
> 	The milter technique would be a much more direct method of 
> control over throttling.

OK, I guess I need to sit down and try out these both. I'm going to set up a
test box tomorrow, and see how both works. Of course, I can't simulate the load
it should generate, but for now, I just want to make sure I can do it, period. I
know I can get the milter working, but will have to play with the thousands of
config options for sendmail.
> 
> >>  It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying
> >>  the configuration file.

Easy for you to say. I have read the Bat Book 2e scantilly, but you know how it
is if you don't need something right away - you usually forget it.

The test box will be running 8.13, which is new here, so a few new options.


> >
> >  I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!!
> 
> 	Yes.

I sure didn't get much right on the last post, huh?

Thanks very much. You are much too kind and patient.

Steve
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
> 




-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 04:28:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:28:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150333184.4490b1004ec14@perdition.cnpapers.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060614192800053153fe4473@msapiro>

Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>It eventually ends up there in mqueue, I saw, but I couldn't see how. I did know
>that there is a nice array defined in Defaults.py, and the input and output
>queues are in and out respectively. I also say an SMTPPORT config there, but
>wasn't sure if these could be overridden by site/list mm_cfg.py files.


You can override in mm_cfg.py anything that's in Defaults.py, although
sometimes it's tricky because if A is defined in Defaults.py and then
later used in the definition of B in Defaults.py, changing A alone in
mm_cfg.py won't affect the definition of B. A more concrete example is
the definition of QUEUE_DIR in Defaults.py followed by definitions of
INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR, etc. in terms of QUEUE_DIR. Changing
QUEUE_DIR alone in mm_cfg.py won't change any actual paths to the
queue directories because they have already been defined in terms of
the original QUEUE_DIR. If you wanted to change them, you would also
need to redefine INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR, etc. in mm_cfg.py.

Note that some things in Defaults.py should not be overridden unless
you really know what you're doing, but anything preceding the notation

#####
# Nothing below here is user configurable.  Most of these values are in
this
# file for internal system convenience.  Don't change any of them or
override
# any of them in your mm_cfg.py file!
#####

should be OK to change as required.

Just for completeness here, as I think you've moved beyond this in your
thinking, but here's how outgoing mail works.

Outgoing messages are placed in the 'out' queue. This entry is one file
(queue entry) per message and contains a list of all the recipients
for that message. It is a Python pickle and is only intelligible to
Python in a Mailman context.

This queue entry is picked up by OutgoingRunner which calls
DELIVERY_MODULE (normally SMTPDirect) to deliver it. SMTPDirect sorts
the recipient list by domain and breaks it into chunks of size = 1 if
personalization or VERP is being done, otherwise of size <=
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. Then for each chunk, the message is decorated
(Headers/footers, possibly personalized ard added) and delivered to
the SMTP server at SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in an SMTP transaction with
one MAIL FROM, chunk size RCPT TOs and one DATA, and then the process
repeats until all chunks are processed. If the message or any
recipients are refused at this level for a "non-permanent" error, the
message is put in the retry queue with the new (undelivered)
recipients. If recipients are refused for a "permanent" error, it is
treated as a bounce for those recipients.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun 15 04:59:55 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:59:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150333184.4490b1004ec14@perdition.cnpapers.net>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>
	<001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200724c0b6263dde56@[192.168.2.144]>
	<1150333184.4490b1004ec14@perdition.cnpapers.net>
Message-ID: <p06200725c0b67c520b80@[192.168.2.144]>

At 8:59 PM -0400 2006-06-14, campbell at cnpapers.com wrote:

>                                                 I also say an SMTPPORT
>  config there, but wasn't sure if these could be overridden by site/list
>  mm_cfg.py files.

	The definition of SMTPPORT and SMTPHOST are for the entire 
server, and cannot be over-ridden on a per-list basis.

>>  	You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this
>>  second copy of sendmail.
>>
>  I'm assuming you mean separate sendmail.cf files here when you say 'copy'.

	There are separate sendmail.cf files, yes.  But since there is 
just one sendmail binary, you end up running two instances of 
sendmail -- one for each different version of the sendmail.cf file.

	I used the term "second copy of sendmail", when it might have 
been more accurate to say "second instance of sendmail".  The meaning 
is the same, or at least that was the intent.

>>  	The milter technique would be a much more direct method of
>>  control over throttling.
>
>  OK, I guess I need to sit down and try out these both. I'm going to set up a
>  test box tomorrow, and see how both works. Of course, I can't simulate the
>  load it should generate, but for now, I just want to make sure I can do it,
>  period.

	That's a very good idea.  Make sure you understand how things 
work before you try to use them in earnest.

>>  >>  It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying
>>  >>  the configuration file.
>
>  Easy for you to say. I have read the Bat Book 2e scantilly, but you know
>  how it is if you don't need something right away - you usually forget it.

	I was technical reviewer for that book, and I can tell you that 
Bryan Costales and Eric Allman both keep copies on their desks 
because even they can't remember everything.  You shouldn't chastise 
yourself for failing to be able to do what they can't do themselves.

>  The test box will be running 8.13, which is new here, so a few new options.

	Yup.

>>  >  I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!!
>>
>>  	Yes.
>
>  I sure didn't get much right on the last post, huh?

	Close enough.  ;)

>  Thanks very much. You are much too kind and patient.

	I do my best.  Sometimes I do better than others.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ldb at freestandards.org  Thu Jun 15 06:17:30 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:17:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
Message-ID: <4490DF5A.8050303@freestandards.org>

Jun 14 20:49:14 2006 (19227) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: 
japanese.euc-jp
Jun 14 20:49:14 2006 (19227) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
     self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 152, in process
     deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 356, in bulkdeliver
     msgtext = msg.as_string()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 208, in as_string
     g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
     self._write(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
     self._dispatch(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
     meth(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 197, in _handle_text
     payload = cset.body_encode(payload)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Charset.py", line 386, in body_encode
     s = self.convert(s)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Charset.py", line 269, in convert
     return unicode(s, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
LookupError: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp



I have the above error in my logs. I need this Japanese encoding but my SuSE 
10.0 dist does not stock it. Where can I find it so mailman can work with my 
Japanese mailing lists?

Thanks,

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 06:38:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:38:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <4490DF5A.8050303@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606142138060906eeb771b0@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>LookupError: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp
>
>
>
>I have the above error in my logs. I need this Japanese encoding but my SuSE 
>10.0 dist does not stock it. Where can I find it so mailman can work with my 
>Japanese mailing lists?


The euc-jp codecs are included in a standard Mailman distribution and
installed $prefix/pythonlib/japanese by the standard install. If they
are not in your Mailman and you have a SuSE packaged Mailman, this
would be a SuSE packaging issue.

You can download the current Mailman 2.1.8 tarball which includes
JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 in the misc/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Thu Jun 15 06:52:41 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:52:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606142138060906eeb771b0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606142138060906eeb771b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4490E799.2000607@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>LookupError: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp
>>
>>
>>
>>I have the above error in my logs. I need this Japanese encoding but my SuSE 
>>10.0 dist does not stock it. Where can I find it so mailman can work with my 
>>Japanese mailing lists?
> 
> 
> 
> The euc-jp codecs are included in a standard Mailman distribution and
> installed $prefix/pythonlib/japanese by the standard install. If they
> are not in your Mailman and you have a SuSE packaged Mailman, this
> would be a SuSE packaging issue.
> 
> You can download the current Mailman 2.1.8 tarball which includes
> JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 in the misc/ directory.
> 

How do i get my current mailman SuSE installation o recognize the 
JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11?

Thanks,

LDB



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 09:23:46 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:53:46 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-2.1.8
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606150023s241399f5s53756376606871e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ALL

I have installed Mailman-2.1.8 by reading the mailman-install.pdf, I
am done with the web server configuration, Just out of curiosity I
checked

http://www.mydomain.com/mailman

I am not getting the mailman web interface :-(

Not Found

The requested URL /mailman was not found on this server.
Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat) Server at mydomain.com Port 81

I am wondering did i miss something

Thanks

Kaushal


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 15:44:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 06:44:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606150023s241399f5s53756376606871e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060615064455017135da0222@msapiro>

Kaushal Shriyan wrote:
>
>I have installed Mailman-2.1.8 by reading the mailman-install.pdf, I
>am done with the web server configuration, Just out of curiosity I
>checked
>
>http://www.mydomain.com/mailman
>
>I am not getting the mailman web interface :-(


Are you getting it at http://my.domain.com/mailman/listinfo ?

I don't think this is covered in the install document (note to self -
add it). If you want the 'mailman' URL to go to the listinfo overview,
you need something like

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   http://my.domain.com/mailman/listinfo

in httpd.conf.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 16:40:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 07:40:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <4490E799.2000607@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606150740480828a569cc8c@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>How do i get my current mailman SuSE installation o recognize the 
>JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11?


What's in your current bin/paths.py? In particular, does it contain

import japanese

?

Does your Mailman installation contain a 'pythonlib/' subdirectory in
the same directory as bin/, Mailman/, etc? Does it contain a
'japanese/' subdirectory?

If you have everything but the pythonlib/japanese/ directory, you can
unpack the JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11.tar.gz, cd to the unpack directory
and run

python ./setup.py build

This will create a 'build/' subdir which contains a lib*/ subdir which
contains a 'japanese/' subdir which you can move to Mailman's
pythonlib/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 16:49:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 07:49:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606150740480828a569cc8c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061507493700786ba4ee93@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If you have everything but the pythonlib/japanese/ directory, you can
>unpack the JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11.tar.gz, cd to the unpack directory
>and run
>
>python ./setup.py build
>
>This will create a 'build/' subdir which contains a lib*/ subdir which
>contains a 'japanese/' subdir which you can move to Mailman's
>pythonlib/ directory.


Or you can run

python ./setup.py install

either after or instead of 'python ./setup.py build', and that will
install the codecs in python's site-packages/ directory, and they will
be available to Mailman there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zebrina at studiointrepid.com  Thu Jun 15 20:12:02 2006
From: zebrina at studiointrepid.com (Zebrina - Studio Intrepid)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:12:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie needs help - bug and upgrade issue
Message-ID: <004501c690a7$47ad5d80$6401a8c0@deathsvision>

OK, Hi... I hope I got the correct list to send to,

My name is Zebrina and I got handed a server to keep up a bunch of websites.

I am a graphic designer who took over a server so that I wouldn't loose space for the websites and photography assignments I do for clients.

There is one person using Mailman 2.1.4 and for a year it's worked perfectly.  All of a sudden they get the Bug error - http://lists.imaginestudios.org/mailman/admin on one of the two lists they use, the other one works fine.

I have never used Mailman, nor do I know anything about it.  I would like help, teaching or I can offer a small amount to have some help fixing this issue.

Please, help, if anyone has the time and knowledge.  This is not my area of expertise and the person who knew this stuff is the one who left me with the server.

Thanks so much,
Zebrina


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 17:40:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 08:40:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie needs help - bug and upgrade issue
In-Reply-To: <004501c690a7$47ad5d80$6401a8c0@deathsvision>
Message-ID: <PC174020060615084010023442353d74@msapiro>

Zebrina - Studio Intrepid wrote:
>
>There is one person using Mailman 2.1.4 and for a year it's worked perfectly.  All of a sudden they get the Bug error - http://lists.imaginestudios.org/mailman/admin on one of the two lists they use, the other one works fine.
>
>I have never used Mailman, nor do I know anything about it.  I would like help, teaching or I can offer a small amount to have some help fixing this issue.

The list configuration file for the problem list is corrupt.

There is a mailman installation somewhere on the server - the default
location is /usr/local/mailman/, but it could be anywhere. In this
directory is a lists/ directory and in that are at least 3
subdirectories, 'mailman/' and one each with names = to the two list
names. Each of these contains a few files including config.pck and
config.pck.last. It is these (or at least the config.pck) that are
corrupt for the problem list.

The first thing to try is for the problem list do

mv config.pck config.pck.back

This may fix the problem, but it may not. If the problem still exists,
the next best thing is to have a recent backup from just before the
problem started and restore the config.pck file from that.

If you don't have that, it is a serious problem because everything -
list config, member list, member options, etc. - is all in that file
and no where else, and you are going to have to start over with an
empty, default list. You may be able to extract information from the
corrupt file with something like

strings config.pck

or

strings config.pck.back

or

strings config.pck.last

but it will be tedious to put that information in a form usable for
configuring a list and adding members.

I hope you understand the above. If you don't, you will have to find
someone locally who does understand it to help you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From magic at mind.net  Thu Jun 15 19:21:31 2006
From: magic at mind.net (Robert Lane)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:21:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you add a list of addresses to mailman list?
Message-ID: <4491971B.6030205@mind.net>

I have tried to search for this and figure it out from the edit options,
but I am at a loss how to do this.

We have a list of emails from our professional association in an Excel
spreadsheet.

I want to subscribe the 200+ members to our membership mail list.  How
can I do this?

Thanks!



From PDICKSON at fredco-md.net  Thu Jun 15 20:06:02 2006
From: PDICKSON at fredco-md.net (Dickson, Paul)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:06:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail problems with initial configuration.
Message-ID: <0FAE0D15DC46C0419C00583797484BB9012810C3@nt1s21z.nt1.local>

I'm using the most recent mailman

Sendmail 2.0.x  most recent

Sendmail and mailman are running on RH linux E 3.0 rev3

 

Reports to my self as the list admin come to me fine, but replies don't.
They used to bounce until I edited my aliases file as such(just to test
if that was the issue)

 

test2-request:  mailman

test2:          mailman

test2-bounces:  mailman

 

Now they just disappear of into another land.  I don't see them in the
sendmail queue or in my exchange server queue.

 

I have noticed that mailman doesn't have a mail file under
/var/spool/mail, and am wondering if that is the missing piece and how
to create it.  I've tried manually mailing mailman from the command line
to see that would create it, but it does not.

 

 

Does anyone have any idea where I can look?  I've read the manual a few
times looking for things I might have missed, and looked through the faq
for related issues to no avail.

 

-Paul  



From nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu  Thu Jun 15 20:47:31 2006
From: nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu (Nathan K. Stazewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:47:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
 aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606131541500109fb016ebf@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606131541500109fb016ebf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4491AB43.5040005@swarthmore.edu>

Thank you to Mark and Dan Phillips for pointing me in the direction of 
the proper FAQ section (as I grin sheepishly).  I've looked into those 
suggestions but don't think they're my problem.  If I send an e-mail 
from my mailman machine (using OS X's Mail program which is using 
localhost for smtp), the e-mail is sent to the list and goes out to all 
of the list recipients.  If I send out an e-mail from another computer, 
the e-mail never seems to reach mailman.  I started wondering if port 25 
was open, so I did a test.  I have the old (working) mailman machine 
available to me so I plugged that in and scanned its ports between 20 
and 30.  Both ports 22 and 25 were open on the machine.  I then plugged 
the new machine back in and scanned the same ports...this time finding 
only port 22 open.  I found some web pages saying that the issue would 
be a commented out line within postfix's master.cf file...

smtp      inet  n   -   n   -   -   smtpd



...but that line is not commented out.  This port definitely seems to be 
the issue (as it's the only difference I can find between the two 
machines) but I figured I'd see if there was something else I could be 
missing.  Basically right now my mailman machine accepts local mail but 
nothing else.

Nathan K. Stazewski
Assistant Director
Alumni Relations
Swarthmore College
Swarthmore, PA  19081
610-957-6103
Fax: 610-328-7796
http://www.swarthmore.edu 



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Nathan K. Stazewski wrote:
>
>   
>> I just did a fresh install of Mailman 2.1.8 
>> on OS X 10.4 (Tiger).  I have it to the point where I can create lists 
>> through the web interface and sign people up for the lists.   When I 
>> subscribe an address to a list (or create a new list) an e-mail is sent 
>> and received by the appropriate parties.  If I post to the listserv, 
>> though, no e-mail ever comes through.  I thought I'd improperly setup 
>> postfix until I noticed the other e-mails were being properly sent.  The 
>> mail server is apparently at least partially working, but I can't get a 
>> post through at all.  I've looked through the smtp and smtp-failure 
>> logs, and don't notice any obvious problems.  Anyone have any educated 
>> guesses as to some places that I should check (I'm not sure if this is a 
>> postfix problem or a mailman problem currently).  I can definitely 
>> provide my current configuration settings if anyone has any ideas, but 
>> I'm not even sure what would be helpful right now.
>>     
>
>
> See both
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
> and
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.
>
>   


From PDICKSON at fredco-md.net  Thu Jun 15 21:10:59 2006
From: PDICKSON at fredco-md.net (Dickson, Paul)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:10:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail problems with initial configuration.
Message-ID: <0FAE0D15DC46C0419C00583797484BB9012810CD@nt1s21z.nt1.local>

OK, I've completely wiped out my config and started fresh.. I think I'm
close, but it seems like sendmail doesn't know the mailman account is
local...

 

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

 

      Subject:            RE: confirm
affb1f576f9792270f8f1e49b06ee0149abc5e60

      Sent:                 6/15/2006 3:09 PM

 

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

 

      test-request at lists.fredco-md.net on 6/15/2006 3:10 PM

            The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but did
not report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.  If it
still fails, contact your system administrator.

            < lists.fredco-md.net #5.0.0 X-Unix; 2>

 

Myaliases table now looks like this regarding this list:

 

 

## mailman mailing list

mailman:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"

mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"

mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"

mailman-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"

mailman-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"

mailman-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"

mailman-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"

mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
mailman"

mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
mailman"

 

 

test:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

test-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"

test-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"

test-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"

test-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"

test-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"

test-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"

test-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"

test-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"

test-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
mailman"

 

________________________________

From: Dickson, Paul 
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:06 PM
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: mail problems with initial configuration.

 

I'm using the most recent mailman

Sendmail 2.0.x  most recent

Sendmail and mailman are running on RH linux E 3.0 rev3

 

Reports to my self as the list admin come to me fine, but replies don't.
They used to bounce until I edited my aliases file as such(just to test
if that was the issue)

 

test2-request:  mailman

test2:          mailman

test2-bounces:  mailman

 

Now they just disappear of into another land.  I don't see them in the
sendmail queue or in my exchange server queue.

 

I have noticed that mailman doesn't have a mail file under
/var/spool/mail, and am wondering if that is the missing piece and how
to create it.  I've tried manually mailing mailman from the command line
to see that would create it, but it does not.

 

 

Does anyone have any idea where I can look?  I've read the manual a few
times looking for things I might have missed, and looked through the faq
for related issues to no avail.

 

-Paul  



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun 15 21:10:25 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:10:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
 aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <4491AB43.5040005@swarthmore.edu>
References: <PC1740200606131541500109fb016ebf@msapiro>
	<4491AB43.5040005@swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0b760b592bb@[192.168.1.101]>

At 2:47 PM -0400 2006-06-15, Nathan K. Stazewski wrote:

>                                                           I then plugged
>  the new machine back in and scanned the same ports...this time finding
>  only port 22 open.  I found some web pages saying that the issue would
>  be a commented out line within postfix's master.cf file...
>
>  smtp      inet  n   -   n   -   -   smtpd
>
>  ....but that line is not commented out.  This port definitely seems to be
>  the issue (as it's the only difference I can find between the two
>  machines) but I figured I'd see if there was something else I could be
>  missing.

	This is a firewall problem.  You need to configure the firewall 
on the new machine to allow incoming SMTP connections on port 25. 
However, that is a subject that is completely outside the scope of 
this mailing list.

	When it comes to operating-system specific issues like firewall 
configurations, there's not much we can do to help you.  You need to 
use the mailing lists, newsgroups, and other support services that 
are specific to those OSes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 21:43:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:43:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail problems with initial configuration.
In-Reply-To: <0FAE0D15DC46C0419C00583797484BB9012810CD@nt1s21z.nt1.local>
Message-ID: <PC174020060615124357067142353f58@msapiro>

Dickson, Paul wrote:
> 
>
>Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>
> 
>
>      Subject:            RE: confirm
>affb1f576f9792270f8f1e49b06ee0149abc5e60
>
>      Sent:                 6/15/2006 3:09 PM
>
> 
>
>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
> 
>
>      test-request at lists.fredco-md.net on 6/15/2006 3:10 PM
>
>            The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but did
>not report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.  If it
>still fails, contact your system administrator.
>
>            < lists.fredco-md.net #5.0.0 X-Unix; 2>
>
> 
>
>Myaliases table now looks like this regarding this list:
>
> 
>
> 
>
>## mailman mailing list
>
>mailman:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>
>mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
<snip>


Good!


>test:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>
>test-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>
>test-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
<snip>

No. These should be

>test:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
>
>test-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
>
>test-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"


but that doesn't really explain the 'undeliverable' because the message
to test-request should have been delivered albeit on behalf of the
wrong list.

So, It might be a group mismatch error or some other problem. Check
your sendmail log to see if there's more detail. Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 21:51:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:51:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you add a list of addresses to mailman
	list?
In-Reply-To: <4491971B.6030205@mind.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060615125108010942353cf5@msapiro>

Robert Lane wrote:
>
>We have a list of emails from our professional association in an Excel
>spreadsheet.
>
>I want to subscribe the 200+ members to our membership mail list.  How
>can I do this?

Export the names and addresses from the Excel spreadsheet in a plain,
ascii text file wiht one name and address per line in one of the
formats described at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>.
Then go to the admin Membership Management...->Mass Subscription page,
browse to the file (or paste the list into the text box), set the
options and submit.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From AriMR at bear.com  Thu Jun 15 22:03:22 2006
From: AriMR at bear.com (Rabinowitz, Ari (Exchange))
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:03:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
	aren'tgoing out
Message-ID: <E688853EC60D2441B4BA35E47CB53036117BFF61@whexchmb03.bsna.bsroot.bear.com>

Try checking to see if postfix is configured to only listen on the loop-back interface (localhost 127.0.0.1).  You should check the inet_interfaces value in main.cf.  If it says
inet_interfaces = localhost then that is probably your problem.  Change it to inet_interfaces = all (or just comment out the line since the default is all) and do a postfix reload.  Then try the port scan again.

Ari Rabinowitz, one of the Email postmasters at Bear Stearns
212-272-6518
  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+arimr=bear.com at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+arimr=bear.com at python.org] On 
> Behalf Of Nathan K. Stazewski
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:48 PM
> To: Mark Sapiro
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails 
> but posts aren'tgoing out
> 
> Thank you to Mark and Dan Phillips for pointing me in the 
> direction of 
> the proper FAQ section (as I grin sheepishly).  I've looked 
> into those 
> suggestions but don't think they're my problem.  If I send an e-mail 
> from my mailman machine (using OS X's Mail program which is using 
> localhost for smtp), the e-mail is sent to the list and goes 
> out to all 
> of the list recipients.  If I send out an e-mail from another 
> computer, 
> the e-mail never seems to reach mailman.  I started wondering 
> if port 25 
> was open, so I did a test.  I have the old (working) mailman machine 
> available to me so I plugged that in and scanned its ports between 20 
> and 30.  Both ports 22 and 25 were open on the machine.  I 
> then plugged 
> the new machine back in and scanned the same ports...this 
> time finding 
> only port 22 open.  I found some web pages saying that the 
> issue would 
> be a commented out line within postfix's master.cf file...
> 
> smtp      inet  n   -   n   -   -   smtpd
> 
> 
> 
> ...but that line is not commented out.  This port definitely 
> seems to be 
> the issue (as it's the only difference I can find between the two 
> machines) but I figured I'd see if there was something else I 
> could be 
> missing.  Basically right now my mailman machine accepts 
> local mail but 
> nothing else.
> 
> Nathan K. Stazewski
> Assistant Director
> Alumni Relations
> Swarthmore College
> Swarthmore, PA  19081
> 610-957-6103
> Fax: 610-328-7796
> http://www.swarthmore.edu 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > Nathan K. Stazewski wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> I just did a fresh install of Mailman 2.1.8 
> >> on OS X 10.4 (Tiger).  I have it to the point where I can 
> create lists 
> >> through the web interface and sign people up for the 
> lists.   When I 
> >> subscribe an address to a list (or create a new list) an 
> e-mail is sent 
> >> and received by the appropriate parties.  If I post to the 
> listserv, 
> >> though, no e-mail ever comes through.  I thought I'd 
> improperly setup 
> >> postfix until I noticed the other e-mails were being 
> properly sent.  The 
> >> mail server is apparently at least partially working, but 
> I can't get a 
> >> post through at all.  I've looked through the smtp and 
> smtp-failure 
> >> logs, and don't notice any obvious problems.  Anyone have 
> any educated 
> >> guesses as to some places that I should check (I'm not 
> sure if this is a 
> >> postfix problem or a mailman problem currently).  I can definitely 
> >> provide my current configuration settings if anyone has 
> any ideas, but 
> >> I'm not even sure what would be helpful right now.
> >>     
> >
> >
> > See both
> > 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
> > and
> > 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.
> 021.htp>.
> >
> >   
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/arimr%40bear.com
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
> 01.027.htp
> 
***********************************************************************
Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, 
offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer 
account or account activity contained in this communication.
***********************************************************************


From magic at mind.net  Thu Jun 15 22:16:17 2006
From: magic at mind.net (Robert Lane)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:16:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't figure out if I set up mail list correct
Message-ID: <4491C011.6040307@mind.net>

I set up a mail list. (I think) I tried to set it up so everyone rejects 
if they send to the list. 

We want to be able to have just one person send to members, but in one 
direction only.

I then set it so the moderate required was NOT checked on my own email 
address.

If I then send an email to the list using that email should it be going 
out to everyone on the list?

I haven't seen anything come through from it so I am wondering if I have 
a problem at my host or if I set it up wrong. It does show up in the 
archive, but nothing has come through the email.




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 15 22:27:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:27:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't figure out if I set up mail list correct
In-Reply-To: <4491C011.6040307@mind.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061513273301563910a2bd@msapiro>

Robert Lane wrote:
>
>We want to be able to have just one person send to members, but in one 
>direction only.


See the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.


>I haven't seen anything come through from it so I am wondering if I have 
>a problem at my host or if I set it up wrong. It does show up in the 
>archive, but nothing has come through the email.


If the post is in the archive, it reached the list and was accepted. If
it didn't get sent out, there are many possible reasons.

Is this a new list on a working mailman installation or a new
installation? It could be the members are all set for digests or have
delivery disabled or outgoing mail from Mailman isn't working or ???

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

Let us know whether this is a new installation on your server, a
working installation on your server or an installation hosted
elsewhere?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Thu Jun 15 22:56:40 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:56:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't figure out if I set up mail list correct
In-Reply-To: <4491C011.6040307@mind.net>
References: <4491C011.6040307@mind.net>
Message-ID: <4491C988.2050005@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Robert Lane schrieb:
> I set up a mail list. (I think) I tried to set it up so everyone rejects 
> if they send to the list. 
> 
> We want to be able to have just one person send to members, but in one 
> direction only.
> 
> I then set it so the moderate required was NOT checked on my own email 
> address.
> 
> If I then send an email to the list using that email should it be going 
> out to everyone on the list?
> 
> I haven't seen anything come through from it so I am wondering if I have 
> a problem at my host or if I set it up wrong. It does show up in the 
> archive, but nothing has come through the email.

Hello Robert,

maybe you have the setting, that you (and maybe also anybody else) does 
not recieve a copy of the own message sent to the list - you can check 
this in the first option of your membership administration.

Best wishes,
Ivan






From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Thu Jun 15 22:57:38 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:57:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you add a list of addresses to mailman
 list?
In-Reply-To: <4491971B.6030205@mind.net>
References: <4491971B.6030205@mind.net>
Message-ID: <4491C9C2.1070107@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Robert Lane schrieb:
> I have tried to search for this and figure it out from the edit options,
> but I am at a loss how to do this.
> 
> We have a list of emails from our professional association in an Excel
> spreadsheet.
> 
> I want to subscribe the 200+ members to our membership mail list.  How
> can I do this?
> 
> Thanks!

Hello Robert,

when you click in the "member-administration" (I translate from the
german  interface, so it may be named different in the english gui), you
can add  you members - copy them fist into a text file and pay attention
to add only one e-mail adress per line - that's the way to add a mass of
adresses.
There is also the possibility to add directly from a file - but I think
it won't work with excel, maybe .csv-format or .txt ...

Good luck,
Ivan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jun 16 00:25:32 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:25:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061507493700786ba4ee93@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061507493700786ba4ee93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4491DE5C.1070702@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>>If you have everything but the pythonlib/japanese/ directory, you can
>>unpack the JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11.tar.gz, cd to the unpack directory
>>and run
>>
>>python ./setup.py build
>>
>>This will create a 'build/' subdir which contains a lib*/ subdir which
>>contains a 'japanese/' subdir which you can move to Mailman's
>>pythonlib/ directory.
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can run
> 
> python ./setup.py install
> 
> either after or instead of 'python ./setup.py build', and that will
> install the codecs in python's site-packages/ directory, and they will
> be available to Mailman there.
> 

Thanks Mark ..

LDb



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun 16 02:35:41 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:35:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
 aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <E688853EC60D2441B4BA35E47CB53036117BFF61@whexchmb03.bsna.bsroot.bear.com>
Message-ID: <C0B74AED.D166%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/15/06 1:03 PM, "Rabinowitz, Ari (Exchange)" <AriMR at bear.com> wrote:

> Try checking to see if postfix is configured to only listen on the loop-back
> interface (localhost 127.0.0.1).  You should check the inet_interfaces value
> in main.cf.  If it says
> inet_interfaces = localhost then that is probably your problem.  Change it to
> inet_interfaces = all (or just comment out the line since the default is all)
> and do a postfix reload.  Then try the port scan again.
> 

netstat -ln -p tcp
works in Mac OS X.  One should expect to see either 0.0.0.0.25 (Postfix
listening on all active addresses), or 127.0.0.1.25 (which the experiment
using localhost showed is working) plus at least one other suitable IP
address.25

If Postfix is listening, then either its logs will have useful information
or more likely the firewall needs attention.

(My usual netstat -ln produced between 2 and 3 screens of output in my
44-line window, hence the -p to reduce output.  Apple passes LOTS of stuff
around via sockets.)

  --John (who no longer has Postfix active on his Mac OS X machines)




From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jun 16 02:55:39 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:55:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <4491DE5C.1070702@freestandards.org>
References: <PC17402006061507493700786ba4ee93@msapiro>
	<4491DE5C.1070702@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <4492018B.9010105@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If you have everything but the pythonlib/japanese/ directory, you can
>>>unpack the JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11.tar.gz, cd to the unpack directory
>>>and run
>>>
>>>python ./setup.py build
>>>
>>>This will create a 'build/' subdir which contains a lib*/ subdir which
>>>contains a 'japanese/' subdir which you can move to Mailman's
>>>pythonlib/ directory.
>>
>>
>>
>>Or you can run
>>
>>python ./setup.py install
>>
>>either after or instead of 'python ./setup.py build', and that will
>>install the codecs in python's site-packages/ directory, and they will
>>be available to Mailman there.
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks Mark ..
> 
> LDb
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40example.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

Back again .. The posts are working but the admin. interface page is not working
and it is displaying the following message in the browser ...


Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback 
and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster 
can find this information in the Mailman error logs.


I tried to

	cp euc_jp.py EUC-JP

then restart mailman but it not work.

Any idea?

Here are the /var/lib/mailman/logs/errors:

Jun 15 17:46:26 2006 admin(17989): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(17989): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
admin(17989): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(17989): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(17989):     main()
admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 60, in main
admin(17989):     i18n.set_language(language)
admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 35, in set_language
admin(17989):     language)
admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 465, in translation
admin(17989):     t = _translations.setdefault(key, class_(open(mofile, 'rb')))
admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 177, in __init__
admin(17989):     self._parse(fp)
admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 324, in _parse
admin(17989):     tmsg = unicode(tmsg, self._charset)
admin(17989): LookupError: unknown encoding: EUC-JP
admin(17989): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(17989): sys.version     =   2.4.1 (#1, Sep 13 2005, 00:39:20)
[GCC 4.0.2 20050901 (prerelease) (SUSE Linux)]
admin(17989): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(17989): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(17989): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(17989): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(17989): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(17989): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(17989):   HTTP_COOKIE: 
lsb-discuss+admin=280200000069c8de9144732800000062343864343933326463373035613733313266343033633265663830303736393565643264633031
admin(17989):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.54 (Linux/SUSE)
admin(17989):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(17989):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.0.54 (Linux/SUSE) Server at 
lists.example.org Port 80</address>
admin(17989):
admin(17989):   REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(17989):   HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300
admin(17989):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(17989):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(17989):   HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
admin(17989):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; 
rv:1.8.0.3) Gecko/20060425 SUSE/1.5.0.3-7 Firefox/1.5.0.3
admin(17989):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
admin(17989):   HTTP_REFERER: http://lists.example.org/mailman/listinfo
admin(17989):   SERVER_NAME: lists.example.org
admin(17989):   REMOTE_ADDR: 72.21.10.146
admin(17989):   PATH_TRANSLATED: /srv/www/htdocs/mylist
admin(17989):   SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(17989):   SERVER_ADDR:
admin(17989):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /srv/www/htdocs
admin(17989):   HTTP_PRAGMA: no-cache
admin(17989):   PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman
admin(17989):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
admin(17989):   SERVER_ADMIN: [no address given]
admin(17989):   HTTP_HOST: lists.example.org
admin(17989):   HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: no-cache
admin(17989):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo/mylist
admin(17989):   HTTP_ACCEPT: 
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
admin(17989):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(17989):   REMOTE_PORT: 46417
admin(17989):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5
admin(17989):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate
admin(17989):   PATH_INFO: /mylist



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Jun 16 04:28:56 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:28:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
 aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <C0B74AED.D166%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <C0B78198.1EB90%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/15/06 7:35 PM, John W. Baxter at jwblist3 at olympus.net wrote:

> netstat -ln -p tcp
> works in Mac OS X.  One should expect to see either 0.0.0.0.25 (Postfix
> listening on all active addresses), or 127.0.0.1.25 (which the experiment
> using localhost showed is working) plus at least one other suitable IP
> address.25

Not so fast. I have postfix running on my Macintosh and my output of netstat
-ln -p tcp shows nothing for port 25.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 05:05:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <4492018B.9010105@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061520054102963910a351@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>Back again .. The posts are working but the admin. interface page is not working
>and it is displaying the following message in the browser ...
>
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback 
>and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster 
>can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>
>
>I tried to
>
>	cp euc_jp.py EUC-JP
>
>then restart mailman but it not work.
>
>Any idea?
>
>Here are the /var/lib/mailman/logs/errors:
>
>Jun 15 17:46:26 2006 admin(17989): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(17989): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
>admin(17989): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(17989): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>admin(17989):     main()
>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 60, in main
>admin(17989):     i18n.set_language(language)
>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 35, in set_language
>admin(17989):     language)
>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 465, in translation
>admin(17989):     t = _translations.setdefault(key, class_(open(mofile, 'rb')))
>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 177, in __init__
>admin(17989):     self._parse(fp)
>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 324, in _parse
>admin(17989):     tmsg = unicode(tmsg, self._charset)
>admin(17989): LookupError: unknown encoding: EUC-JP


Did you add "import japanese" to bin/paths.py or was it already there?

If you added it, you also have to add it to scripts/paths.py and
cron/path.py, and for completeness, tests/paths.py if you have a
tests/ directory, but that is only needed if you run any of the
tests/* scripts.

Also, you needed to do a 'bin/mailmanctl restart' at some point, but I
suspect you may have done that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jun 16 05:14:40 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:14:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061520054102963910a351@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061520054102963910a351@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44922220.1030805@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
>>Back again .. The posts are working but the admin. interface page is not working
>>and it is displaying the following message in the browser ...
>>
>>
>>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6
>>
>>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>
>>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback 
>>and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster 
>>can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>>
>>
>>I tried to
>>
>>	cp euc_jp.py EUC-JP
>>
>>then restart mailman but it not work.
>>
>>Any idea?
>>
>>Here are the /var/lib/mailman/logs/errors:
>>
>>Jun 15 17:46:26 2006 admin(17989): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>admin(17989): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
>>admin(17989): [----- Traceback ------]
>>admin(17989): Traceback (most recent call last):
>>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>>admin(17989):     main()
>>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 60, in main
>>admin(17989):     i18n.set_language(language)
>>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 35, in set_language
>>admin(17989):     language)
>>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 465, in translation
>>admin(17989):     t = _translations.setdefault(key, class_(open(mofile, 'rb')))
>>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 177, in __init__
>>admin(17989):     self._parse(fp)
>>admin(17989):   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/gettext.py", line 324, in _parse
>>admin(17989):     tmsg = unicode(tmsg, self._charset)
>>admin(17989): LookupError: unknown encoding: EUC-JP
> 
> 
> 
> Did you add "import japanese" to bin/paths.py or was it already there?
> 
> If you added it, you also have to add it to scripts/paths.py and
> cron/path.py, and for completeness, tests/paths.py if you have a
> tests/ directory, but that is only needed if you run any of the
> tests/* scripts.
> 
> Also, you needed to do a 'bin/mailmanctl restart' at some point, but I
> suspect you may have done that.
> 


Sorry never answered your question. Yes, i added it. I also added the additional 
ones as well and restarted.

Now, I just the browser error but I get NOTHING in the error log.

Thanks,

LDB



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Jun 16 05:38:21 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:38:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
 aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <4f09c4cc65e92768d8df74e50619afc2@zerobyzero.ca>
Message-ID: <C0B791DD.1EBCF%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/15/06 10:13 PM, Peter Tattersall at ptatters at zerobyzero.ca wrote:

> 
> On 15-Jun-06, at 10:28 PM, Larry Stone wrote:
>> Not so fast. I have postfix running on my Macintosh and my output of
>> netstat
>> -ln -p tcp shows nothing for port 25.
>> 
> 
> I have the identical setup. netstat -ln -p tcp doesn't show sockets. Try
>      netstat -al -p tcp
> which will does.

Thanks. That -a does make the difference. From the man page:
-a    With the default display, show the state of all sockets; normally
           sockets used by server processes are not shown.

> How did you set up postfix? Do you have the mailman alias setup? If you
> are using postfix enabler, you should have something like
>      alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
> hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> entered under Custom Postfix properties in the Mail Server pane.

I know we're getting a little far from mailman so I'll keep this short.
While I used Postfix Enabler to get Postfix set up, once set up, I started
editing the /etc/postfix/main.cf file directly. Somewhere along the way,
something I added started causing Postfix Enabler to crash when reading the
current configuration. But once Postfix Enabler has the initial setup done,
there's really no reason to use it to make changes as it won't help you with
anything that goes in the Custom section and that's where all the good stuff
goes.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From ptatters at zerobyzero.ca  Fri Jun 16 05:13:33 2006
From: ptatters at zerobyzero.ca (Peter Tattersall)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:13:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
	aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <C0B78198.1EB90%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <C0B78198.1EB90%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <4f09c4cc65e92768d8df74e50619afc2@zerobyzero.ca>


On 15-Jun-06, at 10:28 PM, Larry Stone wrote:

> On 6/15/06 7:35 PM, John W. Baxter at jwblist3 at olympus.net wrote:
>
>> netstat -ln -p tcp
>> works in Mac OS X.  One should expect to see either 0.0.0.0.25 
>> (Postfix
>> listening on all active addresses), or 127.0.0.1.25 (which the 
>> experiment
>> using localhost showed is working) plus at least one other suitable IP
>> address.25
>
> Not so fast. I have postfix running on my Macintosh and my output of 
> netstat
> -ln -p tcp shows nothing for port 25.
>

I have the identical setup. netstat -ln -p tcp doesn't show sockets. Try
     netstat -al -p tcp
which will does. I get something like this:

tcp4       0      0  *.submission           *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.smtp                 *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp46      0      0  *.ssh                  *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.23052                *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.*                    *.*                    
CLOSED
tcp4       0      0  *.ipp                  *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.*                    *.*                    
CLOSED
tcp4       0      0  *.svrloc               *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.*                    *.*                    
CLOSED
tcp4       0      0  *.*                    *.*                    
CLOSED
tcp4       0      0  *.afpovertcp           *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp46      0      0  *.afpovertcp           *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.printer              *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.pop3s                *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.pop3                 *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.imaps                *.*                    
LISTEN
tcp4       0      0  *.imap                 *.*                    
LISTEN

which shows something is listening on smtp and submission (ports 25 and 
587). If you use
    netstat -aln -p tcp
you get the port numbers instead of the services.

How did you set up postfix? Do you have the mailman alias setup? If you 
are using postfix enabler, you should have something like
     alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, 
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
entered under Custom Postfix properties in the Mail Server pane.

Peter Tattersall
http://www.zerobyzero.ca/Weathertop/
http://www.zerobyzero.ca/Starstruck/
L'Osservatore Ponte di Legno
43 49 N 79 34 W



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 05:59:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:59:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <44922220.1030805@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061520593800627ab9ee84@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> Did you add "import japanese" to bin/paths.py or was it already there?
>> 
>> If you added it, you also have to add it to scripts/paths.py and
>> cron/path.py, and for completeness, tests/paths.py if you have a
>> tests/ directory, but that is only needed if you run any of the
>> tests/* scripts.
>> 
>> Also, you needed to do a 'bin/mailmanctl restart' at some point, but I
>> suspect you may have done that.
>> 
>
>
>Sorry never answered your question. Yes, i added it. I also added the additional 
>ones as well and restarted.
>
>Now, I just the browser error but I get NOTHING in the error log.


You may have a syntax error (typo) in scripts/paths.py. Try just running

python scripts.paths.py

It should exit without printing anything. If there's an error, it will
print an exception.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From doug at sbscomp.net  Fri Jun 16 06:08:59 2006
From: doug at sbscomp.net (Douglas G. Phillips)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:08:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via SMTP
Message-ID: <001f01c690fa$99af15d0$0100a8c0@endurance>

I've run up against a strange problem working with a client's server.  They're running QMail and Mailman on a RedHat 9 box, using the Plesk 7.0 reloaded management panel.  After they ran the up2date command, as well as using the management panel to update the software on the box, the mailing lists stopped working.

The only error that I can find is in the mailman error logs (sample here):
Jun 15 19:51:55 2006 (13082) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port smtp

QMail is started via an /etc/init.d script that executes the qmail-start binary.  I can telnet to the SMTP port fine from localhost, and it accepts mail just fine.

All of the places suggested in the documentation I've been able to find don't exist or aren't being used (as far as I can tell).

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

From doug at sbscomp.net  Fri Jun 16 06:13:56 2006
From: doug at sbscomp.net (Douglas G. Phillips)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:13:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via SMTP
Message-ID: <000b01c690fb$4add0e70$0100a8c0@endurance>

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Douglas G. Phillips 
  To: "Mailman Users ML" 
  Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:08 PM
  Subject: Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via SMTP


  I've run up against a strange problem working with a client's server.  They're running QMail and Mailman on a RedHat 9 box, using the Plesk 7.0 reloaded management panel.  After they ran the up2date command, as well as using the management panel to update the software on the box, the mailing lists stopped working.

  The only error that I can find is in the mailman error logs (sample here):
  Jun 15 19:51:55 2006 (13082) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port smtp

  QMail is started via an /etc/init.d script that executes the qmail-start binary.  I can telnet to the SMTP port fine from localhost, and it accepts mail just fine.

  All of the places suggested in the documentation I've been able to find don't exist or aren't being used (as far as I can tell).

  Any suggestions?

  Thanks.

From doug at sbscomp.net  Fri Jun 16 06:15:01 2006
From: doug at sbscomp.net (Douglas G. Phillips)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:15:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via SMTP
Message-ID: <001301c690fb$71fa54e0$0100a8c0@endurance>

Just a followup on this that I forgot to add: Messages sent to the list are received by qmail and processed by mailman.  They appear in the list archives, but they are not re-sent to the members of the mailing list.

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Douglas G. Phillips 
  To: "Mailman Users ML" 
  Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:08 PM
  Subject: Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via SMTP


  I've run up against a strange problem working with a client's server.  They're running QMail and Mailman on a RedHat 9 box, using the Plesk 7.0 reloaded management panel.  After they ran the up2date command, as well as using the management panel to update the software on the box, the mailing lists stopped working.

  The only error that I can find is in the mailman error logs (sample here):
  Jun 15 19:51:55 2006 (13082) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port smtp

  QMail is started via an /etc/init.d script that executes the qmail-start binary.  I can telnet to the SMTP port fine from localhost, and it accepts mail just fine.

  All of the places suggested in the documentation I've been able to find don't exist or aren't being used (as far as I can tell).

  Any suggestions?

  Thanks.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 06:42:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:42:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via SMTP
In-Reply-To: <001301c690fb$71fa54e0$0100a8c0@endurance>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606152142180328d29a93da@msapiro>

Douglas G. Phillips wrote:

>Just a followup on this that I forgot to add: Messages sent to the list are received by qmail and processed by mailman.  They appear in the list archives, but they are not re-sent to the members of the mailing list.


That's consistent. The problem affects outgoing mail only.



>  The only error that I can find is in the mailman error logs (sample here):
>  Jun 15 19:51:55 2006 (13082) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port smtp


Mailman's OutgoingRunner is reporting that it called
SMTPDirect.process() to send the message and the SMTP connect called
in that module raised a socket.error exception.

This is not quite the situation described at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>,
but the debugging techniques described there and in the referenced
list posts should help.


>  QMail is started via an /etc/init.d script that executes the qmail-start binary.  I can telnet to the SMTP port fine from localhost, and it accepts mail just fine.


Are you telnetting to 'localhost' by name? As the 'mailman' user?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Fri Jun 16 08:47:31 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:17:31 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060615064455017135da0222@msapiro>
References: <6b16fb4c0606150023s241399f5s53756376606871e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020060615064455017135da0222@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606152347t315d9d5bm4f2ff113036df3ca@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/15/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Kaushal Shriyan wrote:
> >
> >I have installed Mailman-2.1.8 by reading the mailman-install.pdf, I
> >am done with the web server configuration, Just out of curiosity I
> >checked
> >
> >http://www.mydomain.com/mailman
> >
> >I am not getting the mailman web interface :-(
>
>
> Are you getting it at http://my.domain.com/mailman/listinfo ?
>
> I don't think this is covered in the install document (note to self -
> add it). If you want the 'mailman' URL to go to the listinfo overview,
> you need something like
>
> RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   http://my.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
>
> in httpd.conf.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

Hi

When i hit http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/admin I am getting

Mailman CGI error!!!
The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being
stored in your syslog:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but
the system's web server executed the CGI script as
group "apache".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'.

How do i proceed

Thanks

Kaushal


From dan at f-box.org  Fri Jun 16 11:18:04 2006
From: dan at f-box.org (Daniel Bartlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:18:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "faking" one user of a list
Message-ID: <4492774C.1060209@f-box.org>

Hi there,
There is a list that I run and have a slightly political situation. It
has been requested that one user on the list is "faked" into thinking
they are still on the list. So that they receive their own mails and the
rest of the lists mails. And the their mail can go into the archive. But
it should not go to the rest of the list. Basically "faking" them into
thinking that their emails are getting sent out.

Anyone got any ideas on this one? I know it's a little odd.

Cheers,
Daniel.


From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jun 16 12:49:14 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 06:49:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061520593800627ab9ee84@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061520593800627ab9ee84@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44928CAA.8050603@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>>Did you add "import japanese" to bin/paths.py or was it already there?
>>>
>>>If you added it, you also have to add it to scripts/paths.py and
>>>cron/path.py, and for completeness, tests/paths.py if you have a
>>>tests/ directory, but that is only needed if you run any of the
>>>tests/* scripts.
>>>
>>>Also, you needed to do a 'bin/mailmanctl restart' at some point, but I
>>>suspect you may have done that.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Sorry never answered your question. Yes, i added it. I also added the additional 
>>ones as well and restarted.
>>
>>Now, I just the browser error but I get NOTHING in the error log.
> 
> 
> 
> You may have a syntax error (typo) in scripts/paths.py. Try just running
> 
> python scripts.paths.py
> 
> It should exit without printing anything. If there's an error, it will
> print an exception.
> 

No exceptions.


Actually, when I added "import japanese" to cron/paths.py, scripts/paths.py and 
tests/paths.py, ALL my lists admin. interface links were
unaccessible.


Thanks,

LDB



From doug at sbscomp.net  Fri Jun 16 15:01:18 2006
From: doug at sbscomp.net (Douglas G. Phillips)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:01:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOLVED: Re: Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via
	SMTP
References: <PC1740200606152142180328d29a93da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002901c69144$f6c55910$0100a8c0@endurance>

Thanks for your reply Mark.  The problem was that the /etc/hosts file
was set to 600 for the permissions.  Resetting to 755 worked great.
Now I've run into another problem, but I've found plenty of info on
that.

Thanks again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Douglas G. Phillips" <doug at sbscomp.net>; "Mailman Users ML"
<mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect via
SMTP


> Douglas G. Phillips wrote:
>
> >Just a followup on this that I forgot to add: Messages sent to the
list are received by qmail and processed by mailman.  They appear in
the list archives, but they are not re-sent to the members of the
mailing list.
>
>
> That's consistent. The problem affects outgoing mail only.
>
>
>
> >  The only error that I can find is in the mailman error logs
(sample here):
> >  Jun 15 19:51:55 2006 (13082) Cannot connect to SMTP server
localhost on port smtp
>
>
> Mailman's OutgoingRunner is reporting that it called
> SMTPDirect.process() to send the message and the SMTP connect called
> in that module raised a socket.error exception.
>
> This is not quite the situation described at
>
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>
,
> but the debugging techniques described there and in the referenced
> list posts should help.
>
>
> >  QMail is started via an /etc/init.d script that executes the
qmail-start binary.  I can telnet to the SMTP port fine from
localhost, and it accepts mail just fine.
>
>
> Are you telnetting to 'localhost' by name? As the 'mailman' user?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.
Dylan
>
>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 16:38:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:38:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606152347t315d9d5bm4f2ff113036df3ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606160738320062afd1463e@msapiro>

Kaushal Shriyan wrote:
>
>When i hit http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/admin I am getting
>
>Mailman CGI error!!!
>The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being
>stored in your syslog:
>
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
>wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but
>the system's web server executed the CGI script as
>group "apache".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
>script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'.
>
>How do i proceed


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>

Also, if you think the above "Group mismatch error" message could be
more clear as to the solution to the problem, let us know how.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 16:48:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:48:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "faking" one user of a list
In-Reply-To: <4492774C.1060209@f-box.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060616074808056275ca379a@msapiro>

Daniel Bartlett wrote:

>There is a list that I run and have a slightly political situation. It
>has been requested that one user on the list is "faked" into thinking
>they are still on the list. So that they receive their own mails and the
>rest of the lists mails. And the their mail can go into the archive. But
>it should not go to the rest of the list. Basically "faking" them into
>thinking that their emails are getting sent out.
>
>Anyone got any ideas on this one? I know it's a little odd.


It's more than a little odd. I would think the appropriate solution to
this would be between the list community and the user. If it were my
list, I would insist that this be resolved in some other way than by
deception.

That said however, you could only do this by modifying/creating code.
Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py is one place it could be done. It could
also be done in a custom handler
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From PDICKSON at fredco-md.net  Fri Jun 16 16:54:09 2006
From: PDICKSON at fredco-md.net (Dickson, Paul)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:54:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail not seeing 'mailman' as a local account,
	and bouncing it back and forth between my servers until failure.
Message-ID: <0FAE0D15DC46C0419C00583797484BB9012810EE@nt1s21z.nt1.local>

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

 

      test-request at lists.fredco-md.net on 6/16/2006 10:53 AM

            A configuration error in the e-mail system caused the
message to bounce between two servers or to be forwarded between two
recipients.  Contact your administrator.

            < mailgw1.fredco-md.net #5.3.5 SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config
error>

 

Any ideas?



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 16:58:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:58:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <44928CAA.8050603@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061607584309212b95e784@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> You may have a syntax error (typo) in scripts/paths.py. Try just running
>> 
>> python scripts.paths.py
>> 
>> It should exit without printing anything. If there's an error, it will
>> print an exception.
>> 
>
>No exceptions.
>
>
>Actually, when I added "import japanese" to cron/paths.py, scripts/paths.py and 
>tests/paths.py, ALL my lists admin. interface links were
>unaccessible.


I would be surprised if any of the web interface is now accessible. All
the web Ggi scripts are run through scripts/driver which imports
scripts/paths.py which presumably is the only thing that changed, and
is what's causing the problem.

What does scripts/paths.py now contain?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 17:05:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:05:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail not seeing 'mailman' as a local
	account,
	and bouncing it back and forth between my servers until failure.
In-Reply-To: <0FAE0D15DC46C0419C00583797484BB9012810EE@nt1s21z.nt1.local>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606160805020718972d4350@msapiro>

Dickson, Paul wrote:

>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
> 
>
>      test-request at lists.fredco-md.net on 6/16/2006 10:53 AM
>
>            A configuration error in the e-mail system caused the
>message to bounce between two servers or to be forwarded between two
>recipients.  Contact your administrator.
>
>            < mailgw1.fredco-md.net #5.3.5 SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config
>error>


This is a Sendmail configuration issue. Other than the fact that this
mail is ultimately intended for Mailman, Mailman is not involved at
all. You might have more success using resources, lists, etc. that are
devoted to Sendmail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From slc at publicus.net  Fri Jun 16 16:59:44 2006
From: slc at publicus.net (Steven Clift)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:59:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Most "secure" settings
Message-ID: <034b01c69155$8166bf40$6600a8c0@publicus>


Assuming that encrypted e-mail is a red "watch me" flag in countries which
limit political freedoms, what would be the best settings for an e-mail list
to protect the participants from retribution?

My initial thoughts:

1. Private list, invite-only.
2. No archive.
3. Replace From: Name/e-mail with group address - can you do that?
4. Add some disclaimers about best use of the forum, like use of names,
speaking in code for censored words, etc.

What would you add? 

Can the list act as an anonymizer of sorts so that only the message body of
posts are sent out and all the header stuff stripped out?

Is there a good way to tell if the list is being blocked or filtered by a
countries firewalls?

I am most worried about someone's computer or webmail account being
compromised with the e-mail in-box leading back to people.

Thanks,
S Clift
Web:  http://publicus.net




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 16 19:03:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:03:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Most "secure" settings
In-Reply-To: <034b01c69155$8166bf40$6600a8c0@publicus>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606161003120062f65b7a2a@msapiro>

Steven Clift wrote:
>
>Assuming that encrypted e-mail is a red "watch me" flag in countries which
>limit political freedoms, what would be the best settings for an e-mail list
>to protect the participants from retribution?
>
>My initial thoughts:
>
>1. Private list, invite-only.
>2. No archive.
>3. Replace From: Name/e-mail with group address - can you do that?


Yes. The anonymous_list setting controls this.


>4. Add some disclaimers about best use of the forum, like use of names,
>speaking in code for censored words, etc.
>
>What would you add? 


Don't know.


>Can the list act as an anonymizer of sorts so that only the message body of
>posts are sent out and all the header stuff stripped out?


Not really. When you set anonymous_list to Yes, the From: is replaced
with the list address and Sender: and Reply-To: are removed, but
that's it. The Message-ID: remains and that can reveal the originating
domain. All the Received: headers remain and that may reveal the
originating IP.

It would be easy enough to modify the code to address all this, but it
would require code modification or a custom handler
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>.


>Is there a good way to tell if the list is being blocked or filtered by a
>countries firewalls?


Only if they 'reject' or 'bounce' the message.


>I am most worried about someone's computer or webmail account being
>compromised with the e-mail in-box leading back to people.


If you made a custom handler to remove all but minimal, 'safe' headers,
you'd be pretty secure in terms of the information in the outbound
message assuming posters didn't include signatures or other
identification in the body of the post. Then you'd only have to worry
about the 'bad guys' getting access to the logs on your server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Thiep.Duong at am.necel.com  Fri Jun 16 21:10:36 2006
From: Thiep.Duong at am.necel.com (Thiep Duong)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:10:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setup mailman question
Message-ID: <4493022C.1020703@am.necel.com>

I am setting up a mailman server, so far it working fine.
We want to simplify thing by routing all -bounces -owner
to a single email address 'sysadmin at am.necel.com'
How do we do that?

In the mail received:

From: poster
Sender: list-bounces at am.necel.com  <= how can I change it
         to list at am.necel.com  (no -bounces)
Reply To: list at am.necel.com

Thanks in advance for the answer.

Thiep


From md69 at md69.co.uk  Fri Jun 16 21:29:54 2006
From: md69 at md69.co.uk (Martin Dennett)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:29:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Mailman User options page]
Message-ID: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>



Hi

Is there any way I can amend the HTML behind the page to force a field 
to be made mandatory? I'm thinking of the name field - once a user 
enters their options page, I would like them not to be able to leave it 
until they have filled their name in. I know it could be circumvented by 
just closing the browser window, but most of the users of my list 
wouldn't think of that ;-)

Rgds

Martin Dennett




From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Fri Jun 16 23:52:03 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:52:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setup mailman question
In-Reply-To: <4493022C.1020703@am.necel.com>
References: <4493022C.1020703@am.necel.com>
Message-ID: <BD42D506-6B4A-448A-9DF3-634A38F50846@openinfo.co.uk>


On 16 Jun 2006, at 20:10, Thiep Duong wrote:

> I am setting up a mailman server, so far it working fine.
> We want to simplify thing by routing all -bounces -owner
> to a single email address 'sysadmin at am.necel.com'
> How do we do that?

For -owner just set what e-mail address you want in the second field  
of each list's General Option page of the web admin GUI or set it  
when you create the list from the command line.

My approach is to have a list called defadmin and have that as the  
owner address for lists we do not have administered individually;  
usually because none of the users associated with the list are either  
interested in the task or competent to perform it. We then just  
subscribe some lucky sys admins addresses to the defadmin list.

For -bounces aliases you could simply redefine the per list aliases  
to whatever you want in your MTA aliases database. This alias  
redefinition could be automated but beware; if you direct all the per- 
list bounces to the same alias outside of Mailman you will lose  
Mailman's automated bounce processing which you probably do not want  
to do: see the Bounce Processing page of the web admin GUI.

>
> In the mail received:
>
> From: poster
> Sender: list-bounces at am.necel.com  <= how can I change it
>          to list at am.necel.com  (no -bounces)

See towards the end of this FAQ entry for a hack to manipulate the  
Sender: header on outgoing messages:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp

> Reply To: list at am.necel.com

See options under the heading "Reply-To: header munging" on the  
General Option page of the web admin GUI.

>
> Thanks in advance for the answer.
>
> Thiep



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 00:17:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:17:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Mailman User options page]
In-Reply-To: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606161517310390548d9125@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>Is there any way I can amend the HTML behind the page to force a field 
>to be made mandatory? I'm thinking of the name field - once a user 
>enters their options page, I would like them not to be able to leave it 
>until they have filled their name in. I know it could be circumvented by 
>just closing the browser window, but most of the users of my list 
>wouldn't think of that ;-)


The template for the user options page, named options.html, can be
edited as described at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>,
or it can be edited per list via the "Edit the public HTML pages and
text files" link on the web admin pages, but I suspect you're wanting
to edit the actual HTML generated by the <mm-fullname-box> tag.

This is somewhat tricky as that tag generates the entire 'input' tag
for that entry in the form including the current value of 'fullname'.
You can't just replace the <mm-fullname-box> tag in the template with
whatever HTML you want because then you'd lose the current value to
pre-fill the box, so you have to actually edit the code in
Mailman/Cgi/Options.py to provide the replacement you want, and if
you're going to edit Options.py, you might as well just edit it to
require the full name be provided.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jun 17 04:16:19 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:16:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061607584309212b95e784@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061607584309212b95e784@msapiro>
Message-ID: <449365F3.7010007@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>>You may have a syntax error (typo) in scripts/paths.py. Try just running
>>>
>>>python scripts.paths.py
>>>
>>>It should exit without printing anything. If there's an error, it will
>>>print an exception.
>>>
>>
>>No exceptions.
>>
>>
>>Actually, when I added "import japanese" to cron/paths.py, scripts/paths.py and 
>>tests/paths.py, ALL my lists admin. interface links were
>>unaccessible.
> 
> 
> 
> I would be surprised if any of the web interface is now accessible. All
> the web Ggi scripts are run through scripts/driver which imports
> scripts/paths.py which presumably is the only thing that changed, and
> is what's causing the problem.
> 
> What does scripts/paths.py now contain?
> 

# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

# This file becomes paths.py which is installed in may directories.  By
# importing this module, sys.path gets `hacked' so that the $prefix/Mailman
# directory is inserted at the start of that list.  That directory really
# contains the Mailman modules in package form.  This file exports two
# attributes that other modules may use to get the absolute path to the
# installed Mailman distribution.

import sys
import os
import japanese

# some scripts expect this attribute to be in this module
prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman'
exec_prefix = '${prefix}'

# work around a bogus autoconf 2.12 bug
if exec_prefix == '${prefix}':
     exec_prefix = prefix

# Hack the path to include the parent directory of the $prefix/Mailman package
# directory.
sys.path.insert(0, prefix)

# We also need the pythonlib directory on the path to pick up any overrides of
# standard modules and packages.  Note that these must go at the front of the
# path for this reason.
sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(prefix, 'pythonlib'))

# Include Python's site-packages directory.
sitedir = os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'lib', 'python'+sys.version[:3],
                        'site-packages')
sys.path.append(sitedir)



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 04:52:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:52:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <449365F3.7010007@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606161952230015057cdf26@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> What does scripts/paths.py now contain?
>> 
>
># -*- python -*-
>
># Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>#
># This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
># modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
># as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
># of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
>#
># This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
># but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
># MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
># GNU General Public License for more details.
>#
># You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
># along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
># Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.
>
># This file becomes paths.py which is installed in may directories.  By
># importing this module, sys.path gets `hacked' so that the $prefix/Mailman
># directory is inserted at the start of that list.  That directory really
># contains the Mailman modules in package form.  This file exports two
># attributes that other modules may use to get the absolute path to the
># installed Mailman distribution.
>
>import sys
>import os
>import japanese


This (import japanese) needs to be at the end after the sys.path
manipulations.  I gave you the wrong info for testing this. It should
have been

python -S scripts/paths.py


>
># some scripts expect this attribute to be in this module
>prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman'
>exec_prefix = '${prefix}'
>
># work around a bogus autoconf 2.12 bug
>if exec_prefix == '${prefix}':
>     exec_prefix = prefix
>
># Hack the path to include the parent directory of the $prefix/Mailman package
># directory.
>sys.path.insert(0, prefix)
>
># We also need the pythonlib directory on the path to pick up any overrides of
># standard modules and packages.  Note that these must go at the front of the
># path for this reason.
>sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(prefix, 'pythonlib'))
>
># Include Python's site-packages directory.
>sitedir = os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'lib', 'python'+sys.version[:3],
>                        'site-packages')
>sys.path.append(sitedir)
>



-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 17 07:10:48 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:10:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp matching with very long Subject lines
Message-ID: <44938ED8.7040205@yahoo.com>

I have a problem with a mailing list where "out of the office" regexp 
matches are sometimes failing to block emails to the list due to the 
Subject actually containing a line wrap.  An example from the header is 
this:

  Subject: Re:[list] Bobby Painintheass and Susie Givingyouhell are out
        of the office on vacation this week

Is there any way to match against a Subject that might have a new line 
anywhere in the text?

Tia,

-Jim P.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 07:38:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:38:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp matching with very long Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <44938ED8.7040205@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606162238590781ef698388@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>I have a problem with a mailing list where "out of the office" regexp 
>matches are sometimes failing to block emails to the list due to the 
>Subject actually containing a line wrap.  An example from the header is 
>this:
>
>  Subject: Re:[list] Bobby Painintheass and Susie Givingyouhell are out
>        of the office on vacation this week
>
>Is there any way to match against a Subject that might have a new line 
>anywhere in the text?


Is this is the context of header_filter_rules or something else? Also
what Mailman version?

Starting in 2.1.6, folded headers are unfolded by replacing the
new-line and following white space character with a single space which
"should" give "the correct thing" assuming the above for example is
new-line followed by tab followed by 'of'.

You could always use a pattern like

   '\sout\s+of\s+(the\s+)?office\s'

which will match whitespace, followed by 'out', followed by 1 or more
whitespace characters, followed by 'of', followed by some whitespace,
followed by 0 or one occurrences of 'the' and some whitespace,
followed by 'office' and whitespace.

See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 17 08:31:10 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:31:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp matching with very long Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606162238590781ef698388@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606162238590781ef698388@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4493A1AE.2040002@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I have a problem with a mailing list where "out of the office" regexp 
>> matches are sometimes failing to block emails to the list due to the 
>> Subject actually containing a line wrap.  An example from the header is 
>> this:
>>
>>  Subject: Re:[list] Bobby Painintheass and Susie Givingyouhell are out
>>        of the office on vacation this week
>>
>> Is there any way to match against a Subject that might have a new line 
>> anywhere in the text?
> 
> 
> Is this is the context of header_filter_rules or something else? Also
> what Mailman version?

Yes, header_filter_rules, and this is MM 2.1.8.

> Starting in 2.1.6, folded headers are unfolded by replacing the
> new-line and following white space character with a single space which
> "should" give "the correct thing" assuming the above for example is
> new-line followed by tab followed by 'of'.
> 
> You could always use a pattern like
> 
>    '\sout\s+of\s+(the\s+)?office\s'
> 
> which will match whitespace, followed by 'out', followed by 1 or more
> whitespace characters, followed by 'of', followed by some whitespace,
> followed by 0 or one occurrences of 'the' and some whitespace,
> followed by 'office' and whitespace.
> 
> See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

Thanks, I'll give that a look over tomorrow.

-Jim P.





From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jun 17 15:54:48 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:54:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606161952230015057cdf26@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606161952230015057cdf26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <449409A8.7010606@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>>What does scripts/paths.py now contain?
>>>
>>
>># -*- python -*-
>>
>># Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>#
>># This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
>># modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
>># as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
>># of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
>>#
>># This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
>># but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
>># MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
>># GNU General Public License for more details.
>>#
>># You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
>># along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
>># Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.
>>
>># This file becomes paths.py which is installed in may directories.  By
>># importing this module, sys.path gets `hacked' so that the $prefix/Mailman
>># directory is inserted at the start of that list.  That directory really
>># contains the Mailman modules in package form.  This file exports two
>># attributes that other modules may use to get the absolute path to the
>># installed Mailman distribution.
>>
>>import sys
>>import os
>>import japanese
> 
> 
> 
> This (import japanese) needs to be at the end after the sys.path
> manipulations.  I gave you the wrong info for testing this. It should
> have been
> 
> python -S scripts/paths.py
> 
> 
> 
>># some scripts expect this attribute to be in this module
>>prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman'
>>exec_prefix = '${prefix}'
>>
>># work around a bogus autoconf 2.12 bug
>>if exec_prefix == '${prefix}':
>>    exec_prefix = prefix
>>
>># Hack the path to include the parent directory of the $prefix/Mailman package
>># directory.
>>sys.path.insert(0, prefix)
>>
>># We also need the pythonlib directory on the path to pick up any overrides of
>># standard modules and packages.  Note that these must go at the front of the
>># path for this reason.
>>sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(prefix, 'pythonlib'))
>>
>># Include Python's site-packages directory.
>>sitedir = os.path.join(sys.prefix, 'lib', 'python'+sys.version[:3],
>>                       'site-packages')
>>sys.path.append(sitedir)
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

Since I put it at the end. It is seemingly working now. So I have placed,

import japanese

at the end of sys.path in the files {cron,tests,bin,scripts/paths.py and
it works.

Thanks Mark,

LDB



From todd.williams at ecaminc.com  Sat Jun 17 16:21:29 2006
From: todd.williams at ecaminc.com (Todd C. Williams)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 07:21:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding nonmembers emails
Message-ID: <000d01c69219$538e4bf0$b102a8c0@ecaminc.com>

I have volunteered to train people on the use of Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
for PMI Portland (http://www.pmi-portland.org/).  
 
I do not understand the "Privacy options." "Sender filters", entry "List of
non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically discarded".  I
have entered an address and set the option "Should messages from
non-members, which are automatically discarded, be forwarded to the list
moderator?" to "no" and the administrators and moderators still get notices.

 
What am I missing.
 
Cheers,
  Todd C. Williams
    eCameron, Inc.
    www.ecaminc.com <http://www.ecaminc.com/> 
    Office: 1-360-834-7361
    Hand Ph: 1-360-521-9051



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 17:00:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 08:00:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding nonmembers emails
In-Reply-To: <000d01c69219$538e4bf0$b102a8c0@ecaminc.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061708002102964185975d@msapiro>

Todd C. Williams wrote:

>I have volunteered to train people on the use of Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
>for PMI Portland (http://www.pmi-portland.org/).  
> 
>I do not understand the "Privacy options." "Sender filters", entry "List of
>non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically discarded".  I
>have entered an address and set the option "Should messages from
>non-members, which are automatically discarded, be forwarded to the list
>moderator?" to "no" and the administrators and moderators still get notices.

Notices that say that the post from the address in
discard_these_nonmembers was auto discarded, or some other notice?

There are 4 possible actions to be taken on a post from a non-member.

Accept - accept the post for the list
Hold - hold the post for review by a moderator - notify the
       owners/moderators in a daily summary and also immediately if
       General Options->admin_immed_notify is Yes. Also notify the
       poster of the hold.
Reject - do not accept the message but notify the poster.
Discard - do not accept the post and do not notify the poster.

The lists Privacy options...->Sender filters->*_these_nonmembers are
lists of non-member addresses and regular expressions matching
non-member addresses. The corresponding action will be applied to
posts from a non-member address that matches one of these lists.

Posts from non-member addresses that don't match one of the lists are
handled according to Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott.e.thomson at gmail.com  Sat Jun 17 18:53:49 2006
From: scott.e.thomson at gmail.com (Scott Thomson)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:53:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
Message-ID: <416494190606170953p7f8c846egc3e93bc96f61b764@mail.gmail.com>

So I upgraded mailman and sendmail yesterday, I'm running RHEL3 on a machine
out at serverbeach.  The latest mailman is 2.1.5 via Red Hat Network.

Now that I've upgraded to the latest versions of both available via up2date,
I'm getting errors when sending to a list.

This is what is in my /error log for mailman.

Jun 17 03:53:02 2006 (27701) SHUNTING:
1150530781.4040949+b05e0d8630edf39d7052ae94e9689917b1edabdf
Jun 17 03:54:21 2006 mailowner(4097): Traceback (most recent call last):
mailowner(4097):   File "/var/mailman/scripts/owner", line 67, in ?
mailowner(4097):      main()
mailowner(4097):   File "/var/mailman/scripts/owner", line 62, in main
mailowner(4097):      toowner=1)
mailowner(4097):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line
126, in enqueue
mailowner(4097):      fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
mailowner(4097): IOError :  [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/mailman/qfiles/in/1150530861.4845021+b8057e80f0ff22e8f65d4d330
7e5f08a97a1e1a3.pck.tmp'
Jun 17 05:05:20 2006 (27520) No such list "sunday2002-l": (a whole lot of
these errors)


Any ideas?

Scott Thomson


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 19:49:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 10:49:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <416494190606170953p7f8c846egc3e93bc96f61b764@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060617104914059312e2287f@msapiro>

Scott Thomson wrote:

>So I upgraded mailman and sendmail yesterday, I'm running RHEL3 on a machine
>out at serverbeach.  The latest mailman is 2.1.5 via Red Hat Network.
>
>Now that I've upgraded to the latest versions of both available via up2date,
>I'm getting errors when sending to a list.
>
>This is what is in my /error log for mailman.
>
>Jun 17 03:53:02 2006 (27701) SHUNTING:
>1150530781.4040949+b05e0d8630edf39d7052ae94e9689917b1edabdf
>Jun 17 03:54:21 2006 mailowner(4097): Traceback (most recent call last):
>mailowner(4097):   File "/var/mailman/scripts/owner", line 67, in ?
>mailowner(4097):      main()
>mailowner(4097):   File "/var/mailman/scripts/owner", line 62, in main
>mailowner(4097):      toowner=1)
>mailowner(4097):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line
>126, in enqueue
>mailowner(4097):      fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
>mailowner(4097): IOError :  [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/mailman/qfiles/in/1150530861.4845021+b8057e80f0ff22e8f65d4d330
>7e5f08a97a1e1a3.pck.tmp'


Clearly there is some permissions issue on at least the 'in' queue if
not all the qfiles/ directories.

Try running 'bin/check_perms -f' as root. You may need to run it more
than once until it runs error free.


>Jun 17 05:05:20 2006 (27520) No such list "sunday2002-l": (a whole lot of
>these errors)


Does this list exist? Is there a lists/sunday2002-l/ directory? This is
a 'normal' error if someone tries to access a non-existent list via
the web interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 21:59:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:59:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <416494190606171207q424e40ddkb1998d9553e50e16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060617125908062512e22899@msapiro>

Scott Thomson wrote:
>
>Thanks for the ideas, now I feel like I'm getting closer to the issue.
>
>check_perms came up clean, all the files in the in dir match these
>permissions.
>
>2302ff99d3a89dc936c9e66497cb08201f0.pck
>-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman     10043 Jun 17 14:08
>1150567685.345078+9eff67
>
>/var/mailman/qfiles//in looks like this:
>
>drwxrws---    2 root     mailman     16384 Jun 17 14:54 in
>
>Should that be owned by root or by mailman like everything else in that
>directory?  The virgin directory is also owned by root.


Sometimes the owner is root and sometimes mailman depending on just how
it was created. It's not important. The group is the important thing.
It should always be mailman and /var/mailman/mail/mailman and all the
files in /var/mailman/cgi-bin should be group mailman and SETGID.
check_perms would have caught any problems here.

Are you running SeLinux or anything else that would impose additional
access controls?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott.e.thomson at gmail.com  Sat Jun 17 22:25:37 2006
From: scott.e.thomson at gmail.com (Scott Thomson)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:25:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060617125908062512e22899@msapiro>
References: <416494190606171207q424e40ddkb1998d9553e50e16@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020060617125908062512e22899@msapiro>
Message-ID: <416494190606171325k485b6e4fk71a23982b1701001@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/17/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Scott Thomson wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for the ideas, now I feel like I'm getting closer to the issue.
> >
> >check_perms came up clean, all the files in the in dir match these
> >permissions.
> >
> >2302ff99d3a89dc936c9e66497cb08201f0.pck
> >-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman     10043 Jun 17 14:08
> >1150567685.345078+9eff67
> >
> >/var/mailman/qfiles//in looks like this:
> >
> >drwxrws---    2 root     mailman     16384 Jun 17 14:54 in
> >
> >Should that be owned by root or by mailman like everything else in that
> >directory?  The virgin directory is also owned by root.
>
>
> Sometimes the owner is root and sometimes mailman depending on just how
> it was created. It's not important. The group is the important thing.
> It should always be mailman and /var/mailman/mail/mailman and all the
> files in /var/mailman/cgi-bin should be group mailman and SETGID.
> check_perms would have caught any problems here.
>
> Are you running SeLinux or anything else that would impose additional
> access controls?



Not to my knowlege.  Any other ideas?

This is the bounce message we're getting by the way:

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

      ga-stream at lists.uua.org on 6/16/2006 5:28 PM
            The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but did not
report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.  If it still
fails, contact your system administrator.
            < sb1.uua.org #5.0.0 X-Unix; 1>


--
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 23:11:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:11:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <416494190606171325k485b6e4fk71a23982b1701001@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606171411430421b9d15f90@msapiro>

Scott Thomson wrote:
>
>This is the bounce message we're getting by the way:
>
>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>      ga-stream at lists.uua.org on 6/16/2006 5:28 PM
>            The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but did not
>report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.  If it still
>fails, contact your system administrator.
>            < sb1.uua.org #5.0.0 X-Unix; 1>


That's consistent with the traceback in your original post. The
traceback showed that the 'owner' script which would have been trying
to store a message to somelist-owner at ... could not create the queue
entry in the qfiles/in/ directory. It died and the wrapper reported
this back to the MTA.

Your original post showed that the message was shunted:

Jun 17 03:53:02 2006 (27701) SHUNTING:
1150530781.4040949+b05e0d8630edf39d7052ae94e9689917b1edabdf

Is there a file named
1150530781.4040949+b05e0d8630edf39d7052ae94e9689917b1edabdf
.pck in qfiles/shunt?

Also, as I look more closely at the original traceback, it is unusual
in that entries usually only have the pid and yours say 'mailowner
(pid)', and I don't know what 'mailowner' is.

What do your sendmail aliases for Mailman look like? Normally, they all
pipe to /var/mailman/mail/mailman with different arguments. Do yours
pipe to other commands like maybe /var/mailman/mail/mailowner? If so,
is the file(s) group Mailman and SETGID?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 23:26:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:26:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606171411430421b9d15f90@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606171426380968b9d161ae@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Also, as I look more closely at the original traceback, it is unusual
>in that entries usually only have the pid and yours say 'mailowner
>(pid)', and I don't know what 'mailowner' is.
>
>What do your sendmail aliases for Mailman look like? Normally, they all
>pipe to /var/mailman/mail/mailman with different arguments. Do yours
>pipe to other commands like maybe /var/mailman/mail/mailowner? If so,
>is the file(s) group Mailman and SETGID?


The light finally dawns :-)

You upgraded from 2.0.x and you didn't change your Mailman aliases for
Sendmail. See item 2 in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
for an example of what the aliases should look like. Or, you can run
bin/genaliases to print a list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gerrit.bosch at hometa.biz  Sat Jun 17 23:35:59 2006
From: gerrit.bosch at hometa.biz (Gerrit Bosch)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 23:35:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] port number
Message-ID: <999c8127dd8e3a70a7f4f610ac9f7c41@hometa.biz>

Hello,

Sorry to bother you out there with this newbie question:
Is it possible to change the portnumber for the webinterface to 
anything else than 80?
Thus avoiding interference with another webserver on the  same subnet.

Couldn't find the answer in the FAQ's.

Thanks,
Gerrit Bosch.
ideeinbeeld.nl



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 17 23:54:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:54:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] port number
In-Reply-To: <999c8127dd8e3a70a7f4f610ac9f7c41@hometa.biz>
Message-ID: <PC174020060617145439031212e2277f@msapiro>

Gerrit Bosch wrote:
>
>Sorry to bother you out there with this newbie question:
>Is it possible to change the portnumber for the webinterface to 
>anything else than 80?
>Thus avoiding interference with another webserver on the  same subnet.


To make the links on the Mailman web pages include the port, you need
to add the port to DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN by putting something like the
following in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = http://%s:8080/mailman/

(using port 8080 for example, and assuming no other change to the
default).

This will suffice for new lists, but for existing lists you need to run
fix_url to update the list and also bin/arch to fix absolute links in
the list's archives.

Run

bin/fix_url.py

standalone to get its usage, and

bin/arch --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott.e.thomson at gmail.com  Sun Jun 18 03:57:29 2006
From: scott.e.thomson at gmail.com (Scott Thomson)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:57:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors after upgrade via up2date to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606171426380968b9d161ae@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606171411430421b9d15f90@msapiro>
	<PC1740200606171426380968b9d161ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <416494190606171857h40803bd4jf5d5f4418e3c3985@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm, well, after going through the FAQ, I think its working again, for some
reason restarting it with mailmanctl instead of service mailman restart
seems to have done the trick.  At least I think thats what fixed it, I could
be wrong about that.....

Thanks for your help Mark!

Scott

On 6/17/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >Also, as I look more closely at the original traceback, it is unusual
> >in that entries usually only have the pid and yours say 'mailowner
> >(pid)', and I don't know what 'mailowner' is.
> >
> >What do your sendmail aliases for Mailman look like? Normally, they all
> >pipe to /var/mailman/mail/mailman with different arguments. Do yours
> >pipe to other commands like maybe /var/mailman/mail/mailowner? If so,
> >is the file(s) group Mailman and SETGID?
>
>
> The light finally dawns :-)
>
> You upgraded from 2.0.x and you didn't change your Mailman aliases for
> Sendmail. See item 2 in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
> for an example of what the aliases should look like. Or, you can run
> bin/genaliases to print a list.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Sun Jun 18 07:55:23 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:55:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] port number
In-Reply-To: <999c8127dd8e3a70a7f4f610ac9f7c41@hometa.biz>
References: <999c8127dd8e3a70a7f4f610ac9f7c41@hometa.biz>
Message-ID: <15A1BCA6-686B-46DE-ACF6-FAD3C3EF004D@openinfo.co.uk>


On 17 Jun 2006, at 22:35, Gerrit Bosch wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Sorry to bother you out there with this newbie question:
> Is it possible to change the portnumber for the webinterface to
> anything else than 80?

See under heading "Non-standard web server ports" on:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

and then read the rest of the FAQ entry.

> Thus avoiding interference with another webserver on the  same subnet.

>
> Couldn't find the answer in the FAQ's.
>
> Thanks,
> Gerrit Bosch.
> ideeinbeeld.nl
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> r.barrett%40openinfo.co.uk
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From joe at netmusician.org  Sun Jun 18 17:09:09 2006
From: joe at netmusician.org (Joe Auty)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:09:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Python FreeBSD port problem
Message-ID: <C80E8E56-729D-452D-A239-0617AB495D8A@netmusician.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

When I try to startup the Mailport FreeBSD port via its rc script, I  
get the following:


... snipped all sorts of stuff ....

Traceback (most recent call last):
Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
     Traceback (most recent call last):
     Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
import getopt
   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
import getopt
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
ImportError    ImportErrorTraceback (most recent call last):
: import getopt
:   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
No module named getoptImportErrorNo module named getopt
:
import getopt
No module named getoptImportError
: No module named getopt



This same port works on another FreeBSD machine of mine. I've posed  
this question to the FreeBSD Questions list, but I seem to have  
baffled some, which is why I thought I would post this question here.  
I hope this appropriate to post here.

Anything I can try? I'm sort of flying blindly here....




- -----------
Joe Auty
NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
http://www.netmusician.org
joe at netmusician.org


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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 18 18:41:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:41:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Python FreeBSD port problem
In-Reply-To: <C80E8E56-729D-452D-A239-0617AB495D8A@netmusician.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606180941100453d1d6f9cf@msapiro>

Joe Auty wrote:
>
>When I try to startup the Mailport FreeBSD port via its rc script, I  
>get the following:
>
>
>... snipped all sorts of stuff ....
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?



First it seems some configuration step may have been missed. <prefix>
should have been replaced with a path - probably /usr/local/mailman/.


>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
>Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>


Likewise <exec-prefix>


<snip>
>import getopt
>No module named getoptImportError
>: No module named getopt


What happens if you gave a 'python' command and then type

import getopt

at the '>>>' prompt. It should just return another '>>>' prompt to
which you type control-D to exit. If it gives any error, something is
wrong with your python installation. 


>This same port works on another FreeBSD machine of mine. I've posed  
>this question to the FreeBSD Questions list, but I seem to have  
>baffled some, which is why I thought I would post this question here.  
>I hope this appropriate to post here.


We probably can't be much help either. The output you posted seems
'interleaved' and is not too intelligible without knowing what is
being run. In general, we are not able to help much with 3rd party
packages when the problem is with the package rather than the
underlying Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Mon Jun 19 02:30:20 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:30:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
Message-ID: <4495F01C.7030403@freestandards.org>

I have a message in the vette directory labeled:

	Message has implicit destination

The user whom sent it subscribes to the list. How do I resolve?

Thanks,

LDB



From joe at netmusician.org  Mon Jun 19 02:33:34 2006
From: joe at netmusician.org (Joe Auty)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:33:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Python FreeBSD port problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606180941100453d1d6f9cf@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606180941100453d1d6f9cf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E9CC489C-81CD-41CE-B02E-57EA03DA5245@netmusician.org>


On Jun 18, 2006, at 12:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Joe Auty wrote:
>>
>> When I try to startup the Mailport FreeBSD port via its rc script, I
>> get the following:
>>
>>
>> ... snipped all sorts of stuff ....
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
>
>
>
> First it seems some configuration step may have been missed. <prefix>
> should have been replaced with a path - probably /usr/local/mailman/.

Hmmm...

How do I correct this?

>
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
>> Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
>
>
> Likewise <exec-prefix>
>
>
> <snip>
>> import getopt
>> No module named getoptImportError
>> : No module named getopt
>
>
> What happens if you gave a 'python' command and then type
>
> import getopt
>
> at the '>>>' prompt. It should just return another '>>>' prompt to
> which you type control-D to exit. If it gives any error, something is
> wrong with your python installation.
>

No problems there (no error messages)


>
>> This same port works on another FreeBSD machine of mine. I've posed
>> this question to the FreeBSD Questions list, but I seem to have
>> baffled some, which is why I thought I would post this question here.
>> I hope this appropriate to post here.
>
>
> We probably can't be much help either. The output you posted seems
> 'interleaved' and is not too intelligible without knowing what is
> being run. In general, we are not able to help much with 3rd party
> packages when the problem is with the package rather than the
> underlying Mailman.
>

Just in case you'd like to take a stab at this, I'm enclosing the  
full error message. I'd *really* appreciate your help if you are able  
to help me, since I'd really like to get Mailman running again on  
this computer somehow, and have reached the end of my rope...

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Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20060618/96a3577f/attachment.txt 
-------------- next part --------------



Thanks in advance for your help and attention!




-----------
Joe Auty
NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
http://www.netmusician.org
joe at netmusician.org


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From ldb at freestandards.org  Mon Jun 19 02:53:05 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:53:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <4495F01C.7030403@freestandards.org>
References: <4495F01C.7030403@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <4495F571.2030602@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> I have a message in the vette directory labeled:
> 
> 	Message has implicit destination
> 
> The user whom sent it subscribes to the list. How do I resolve?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> LDB
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

Thanks Dan ...

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 02:59:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:59:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <4495F01C.7030403@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061817595604842ed89e9c@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>I have a message in the vette directory labeled:


Do you mean the vette log?


>	Message has implicit destination
>
>The user whom sent it subscribes to the list. How do I resolve?


The message was held for "implicit destination". If it hasn't already
been acted upon by a moderator or cancelled by the submitter (who was
notified by email of the hold and given an opportunity to cancel), it
will still be in the admindb interface and can be acted upon. In any
case, whatever action is/was taken will also be logged in the vette
log.

The message was held because Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination is Yes and neither the list
address nor an address in Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->acceptable_aliases appeared explicitly in To: or Cc: of the
message.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 03:18:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:18:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Python FreeBSD port problem
In-Reply-To: <E9CC489C-81CD-41CE-B02E-57EA03DA5245@netmusician.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061818184806562ed89f40@msapiro>

Joe Auty wrote:
>
>On Jun 18, 2006, at 12:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Joe Auty wrote:
>>>
>>> When I try to startup the Mailport FreeBSD port via its rc script, I
>>> get the following:
>>>
>>>
>>> ... snipped all sorts of stuff ....
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>> Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
>>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
>>
>>
>>
>> First it seems some configuration step may have been missed. <prefix>
>> should have been replaced with a path - probably /usr/local/mailman/.
>
>Hmmm...
>
>How do I correct this?


I have no idea. What I said in my first response still applies.


>>> This same port works on another FreeBSD machine of mine. I've posed
>>> this question to the FreeBSD Questions list, but I seem to have
>>> baffled some, which is why I thought I would post this question here.
>>> I hope this appropriate to post here.


You might compare the 'rc' file on this machine to the one on the
working machine. That might provide a clue.


This is the paragraph I was referring to above by "what I said ..."


>> We probably can't be much help either. The output you posted seems
>> 'interleaved' and is not too intelligible without knowing what is
>> being run. In general, we are not able to help much with 3rd party
>> packages when the problem is with the package rather than the
>> underlying Mailman.
>>
>
>Just in case you'd like to take a stab at this, I'm enclosing the  
>full error message. I'd *really* appreciate your help if you are able  
>to help me, since I'd really like to get Mailman running again on  
>this computer somehow, and have reached the end of my rope...


The full output really isn't any more help than the excerpt, since we
still have no idea what's in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman.sh that's
producing all these errors. This script is part of your FreeBSD port.
It's not in our distribution. Also, we have no idea in what ways files
we do know about have been changed in your package.

One wild guess - look at bin/paths.py. It should contain real paths as
definitions for 'prefix' and 'exec_prefix'. If it's wrong, then so
probably are cron/paths.py and scripts/paths.py (and who knows what
else).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From spam at electroteque.org  Mon Jun 19 08:51:39 2006
From: spam at electroteque.org (electroteque)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:51:39 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] marketing software frontend for mailman ?
Message-ID: <eea4010bf4af39c7061a20822df728fd@electroteque.org>

Hi there, I was wondering if there is such a thing as marketing 
software which frontends to mailman for statically reporting, click 
throughs etc ? Mailman is a wonderful package for mass mailing, however 
these kind of features would also be nice. Let me know thanks.

Dan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 19 14:08:55 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:08:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] marketing software frontend for mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <eea4010bf4af39c7061a20822df728fd@electroteque.org>
References: <eea4010bf4af39c7061a20822df728fd@electroteque.org>
Message-ID: <p06200702c0bc442aa2b0@[192.168.1.101]>

At 4:51 PM +1000 2006-06-19, electroteque wrote:

>  Hi there, I was wondering if there is such a thing as marketing
>  software which frontends to mailman for statically reporting, click
>  throughs etc ? Mailman is a wonderful package for mass mailing, however
>  these kind of features would also be nice. Let me know thanks.

	See FAQ 1.30.

	Oh, and you should also see FAQs 1.22 and 1.23.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From spam at electroteque.org  Mon Jun 19 15:32:35 2006
From: spam at electroteque.org (electroteque)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:32:35 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] marketing software frontend for mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0bc442aa2b0@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <eea4010bf4af39c7061a20822df728fd@electroteque.org>
	<p06200702c0bc442aa2b0@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <310a715d4785ece4b93b0caa79576b5f@electroteque.org>


On 19/06/2006, at 10:08 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 4:51 PM +1000 2006-06-19, electroteque wrote:
>
>>  Hi there, I was wondering if there is such a thing as marketing
>>  software which frontends to mailman for statically reporting, click
>>  throughs etc ? Mailman is a wonderful package for mass mailing, 
>> however
>>  these kind of features would also be nice. Let me know thanks.
>
> 	See FAQ 1.30.

Already seen it, this is system stats related and has nothing to do 
with click throughs, views, graphing or anything marketing at all :P

>
> 	Oh, and you should also see FAQs 1.22 and 1.23.

System is a Dual XEON 1GB 200GB SATA currently running CentOS linux but 
it can be anything and i dont see how this information would be related 
to my question ?, and we dont have mailman installed.

It was a specific question if there are marketing software vendors 
using mailman as a backend layer, a proper answer would be nice.



From josh at pha.jhu.edu  Mon Jun 19 15:57:00 2006
From: josh at pha.jhu.edu (Josh Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:57:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with messages being held for moderator
	approval
Message-ID: <4496AD2C.6080603@pha.jhu.edu>

I am having a problem with messages being held that should be allowed 
through. The problem is always when people send to a list that has a 
list as a member. In other words, a user sends an e-mail to list A. List 
B is a member of list A so the message goes to list B as well. When the 
message gets to list B, it gets held for moderator approval even though 
the user and the list itself (listA at domain.com) are both on the Sender 
filters list. How can I get these messages to go through automatically? 
Thanks.

Josh


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 16:27:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:27:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] marketing software frontend for mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <310a715d4785ece4b93b0caa79576b5f@electroteque.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061907273903287134966f@msapiro>

electroteque wrote:
>
>It was a specific question if there are marketing software vendors 
>using mailman as a backend layer, a proper answer would be nice.


I don't think we are aware of any. I think what you are looking for is
in the realm of CRM software. A google search for

  "customer relations management" software

gets over 197,000 hits. A search for

  "customer relations management" mailman

Gets 866 hits. None of the ones I looked at actually mention "customer
relations management" and Mailman in the same context except a few
such as our FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.018.htp>
that talk about Mailman not being a CRM solution.

I also tried

   "marketing software"

and

   "marketing software" mailman

And got 5,840,000 vs 9380 hits. Interestingly, the latter included a
CRM package named MAILman (but not our Mailman) from Direct Marketing
Software (DMS) <http://www.dmsw.com.au/>.

BTW, I think Brad's point in refering you to FAQs 1.22 and 1.23 even
though they are irrelevant to your question, may have been a clue that
your question may be outside the expertise of this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 16:51:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:51:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with messages being held for
	moderatorapproval
In-Reply-To: <4496AD2C.6080603@pha.jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606190751490640e2b21211@msapiro>

Josh Greenberg wrote:

>I am having a problem with messages being held that should be allowed 
>through. The problem is always when people send to a list that has a 
>list as a member. In other words, a user sends an e-mail to list A. List 
>B is a member of list A so the message goes to list B as well. When the 
>message gets to list B, it gets held for moderator approval even though 
>the user and the list itself (listA at domain.com) are both on the Sender 
>filters list. How can I get these messages to go through automatically? 


I'm guessing, because you don't say, that the messages are held for
"implicit destination". See Recipient filters for listB and either
turn off require_explicit_destination or add listA's address to
acceptable_aliases.

Also, adding listA at domain.com to accept_these_nonmembers is probably
not effective (unless listA is anonymous). If the poster is in
accept_these_nonmembers, that's probably enough, otherwise you may
have to add listA-bounces at domain.com to accept_these_nonmembers and
either set USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in mm_cfg.py or subscribe
listA-bounces at domain.com to listB with delivery disabled.

There is also a patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
that would allow putting '@listA' in listB's accept_these_nonmembers
to allow all members of ListA to post to listB if that is desired.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steele at agora-net.com  Mon Jun 19 17:29:37 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:29:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to import mailing lists?
Message-ID: <4496C2E1.3010409@agora-net.com>

I was wondering if it is possible in Mailman 2.5.1 to import a mailing 
list?  Apparently, just copying the .pck's to the lists directory 
doesn't do the trick.  I've scoured Google and Mailman's options, and 
don't see any way, even non-straight-forward, to accomplish this.  I was 
sort of hoping there would be the ability to do this in Mailman...and 
for it to include all archives and other data associated with the list.  
Any tips?  Thanks in advance for your help!

Best,
Ryan


From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Mon Jun 19 17:46:23 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:46:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060619114347.031f0e48@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>

I have configured mailman on a linux (fedora core 4) machine and set up a 
mailing list. I have 4 users subscribed to this mailing list. I am the 
owner of this list and when I send a test messages to this list, the users 
are not getting the test email but I am getting one. As list admin my email 
is different from the email I have as a subscriber. It is working for me 
but not for others?

I also I noticed that "/usr/lib/mailman/archives/public" directory is empty.

I think I have two cron jobs running one  in /var/spool/cron/mailman and 
another one in /etc/cron.d/mailman

Please let me know how I can troubleshoot this problem.

Thank You.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 17:53:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:53:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to import mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <4496C2E1.3010409@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061908531603283d4af6d8@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:

>I was wondering if it is possible in Mailman 2.5.1 to import a mailing 
>list?  Apparently, just copying the .pck's to the lists directory 
>doesn't do the trick.


If you're talking about a list from another Mailman installation, it
should work provided the source list doesn't use a custom member
adaptor. All the list configuration and membership information is in
lists/<listname>/config.pck. requests.pck and pending.pck have
information about held messages and unconfirmed requests. If you want
to move held messages, you have to move the messages themselves which
are in data/heldmsg-<listname>-nnnn.pck. There may also be a
digest.mbox containing posts for the next digest.

In general, just moving the config.pck will move the list, and moving
archives/private/<listname>* will move the archives.

If the new host has a different name, you probably also have to run
fix_url.

What specific problem did you have?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 18:09:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:09:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060619114347.031f0e48@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606190909230218877f4811@msapiro>

Uthra Rao wrote:

>I have configured mailman on a linux (fedora core 4) machine and set up a 
>mailing list. I have 4 users subscribed to this mailing list. I am the 
>owner of this list and when I send a test messages to this list, the users 
>are not getting the test email but I am getting one. As list admin my email 
>is different from the email I have as a subscriber. It is working for me 
>but not for others?


Are you getting the post as a subscriber or an owner notification at
the owner address?


>I also I noticed that "/usr/lib/mailman/archives/public" directory is empty.



Does your list have public archives? If not, the directory should be
empty. In any case, it contains only symlinks to things in the
archives/private/ directory.


>I think I have two cron jobs running one  in /var/spool/cron/mailman and 
>another one in /etc/cron.d/mailman


You should have only one. Our standard install instructions tell you to
install cron/crontab.in using crontab as the mailman user. This puts
it in /var/spool/cron/mailman. RedHat rpms install a slightly
different crontab (contatining userid) in /etc/cron.d/mailman. You
want one ot the other, not both.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 19 18:03:21 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] marketing software frontend for mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <310a715d4785ece4b93b0caa79576b5f@electroteque.org>
References: <eea4010bf4af39c7061a20822df728fd@electroteque.org>
	<p06200702c0bc442aa2b0@[192.168.1.101]>
	<310a715d4785ece4b93b0caa79576b5f@electroteque.org>
Message-ID: <p06200703c0bc78b5f317@[192.168.1.101]>

At 11:32 PM +1000 2006-06-19, electroteque wrote:

>>>   Hi there, I was wondering if there is such a thing as marketing
>>>   software which frontends to mailman for statically reporting, click
>>>   throughs etc ? Mailman is a wonderful package for mass mailing, however
>>>   these kind of features would also be nice. Let me know thanks.
>>
>>  	See FAQ 1.30.
>
>  Already seen it, this is system stats related and has nothing to do with
>  click throughs, views, graphing or anything marketing at all :P

	The complete lack of anything in that entry related to marketing 
should be a hint.  The complete lack of any hits anywhere in the FAQ 
related to marketing should be another hint.

	However, I have updated this entry to suit.

>  It was a specific question if there are marketing software vendors
>  using mailman as a backend layer, a proper answer would be nice.

	I'm not aware of anyone doing anything remotely related to 
marketing with regards to Mailman.  I'm sure that there are people 
who are using Mailman to send out marketing-related messages (see 
FAQs 3.18 and 3.37), but that's a totally different matter.

	I would imagine that a bit of time spent searching the archives 
(in accordance with FAQ 1.18, 1.22, and 1.23) should probably have 
demonstrated this fact, but maybe not.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From steele at agora-net.com  Mon Jun 19 18:46:42 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:46:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to import mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061908531603283d4af6d8@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061908531603283d4af6d8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4496D4F2.9080708@agora-net.com>

Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply.  Here's my problem:  I want to upgrade a 
Mailman installation, but I don't want to do it in the production 
environment.  So, I have a test environment.  I want to import a list 
from the production environment to a Mailman installation in the test 
environment, upgrade Mailman, and test that the list still works 
properly.  However, I don't want/need to copy every list from the 
production Mailman installation.  But, I guess I could try copying the 
.pck's and the data members and see if that helps.  When I simply copied 
the files from the lists directory on the production box to the lists 
directory on the test box, Mailman seemed to have a notion of the list 
(I couldn't create one with the same name), but when I listed all 
mailing lists from the admin interface, it did not show up in that list. 

Thanks,
Ryan

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>   
>> I was wondering if it is possible in Mailman 2.5.1 to import a mailing 
>> list?  Apparently, just copying the .pck's to the lists directory 
>> doesn't do the trick.
>>     
>
>
> If you're talking about a list from another Mailman installation, it
> should work provided the source list doesn't use a custom member
> adaptor. All the list configuration and membership information is in
> lists/<listname>/config.pck. requests.pck and pending.pck have
> information about held messages and unconfirmed requests. If you want
> to move held messages, you have to move the messages themselves which
> are in data/heldmsg-<listname>-nnnn.pck. There may also be a
> digest.mbox containing posts for the next digest.
>
> In general, just moving the config.pck will move the list, and moving
> archives/private/<listname>* will move the archives.
>
> If the new host has a different name, you probably also have to run
> fix_url.
>
> What specific problem did you have?
>
>   



From danielbk at ornl.gov  Mon Jun 19 18:58:45 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:58:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding moderators via command line interface?
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01EB7E9D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Is there a command line interface to add moderators to mailing lists?  I
have used the bin/add_members script but I do not see how to add
moderators via the command line.

 

Thanks for the help.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 19:06:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:06:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to import mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <4496D4F2.9080708@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061910064502961ab8fd95@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:

>When I simply copied 
>the files from the lists directory on the production box to the lists 
>directory on the test box, Mailman seemed to have a notion of the list 
>(I couldn't create one with the same name), but when I listed all 
>mailing lists from the admin interface, it did not show up in that list. 


That's because the test box has a different domain name and
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is it's default Yes value. You can see the list
either by running

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>

on the test box or by putting

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 19:13:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:13:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding moderators via command line interface?
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01EB7E9D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606191013350125ac6c1740@msapiro>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:

>Is there a command line interface to add moderators to mailing lists?  I
>have used the bin/add_members script but I do not see how to add
>moderators via the command line.


bin/config_list -i filename listname

where filename contains the single line

mlist.moderator.append('user at example.com')

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From geoff at deering.id.au  Mon Jun 19 19:17:04 2006
From: geoff at deering.id.au (Geoff Deering)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:17:04 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notifications - Logging original
	headers for Spam tracing
Message-ID: <4496DC10.8090301@deering.id.au>

Hi,

Is there a log or any way of logging the original spam emails sent to 
lists so that the original headers can be used for spam tracing and 
reporting through the likes of spamcop.net?

Regards
Geoff


From oliver at samera.com.py  Mon Jun 19 19:20:34 2006
From: oliver at samera.com.py (Oliver Schulze L.)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:20:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
In-Reply-To: <004e01c65d14$a1caf640$3601a8c0@Louis>
References: <004e01c65d14$a1caf640$3601a8c0@Louis>
Message-ID: <4496DCE2.8070207@samera.com.py>

I'm having the same problem.

Maybe a solution can be to use the KNOW_SPAMERS[] variable as Mark 
suggested,
something like:

KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('subject', '^.*spam'), ('x-spam-flag', 'yes')]

The problem with this is that SpamAssassin does not provide a
header like:
x-spam-flag: yes
instead, it provides a header like:
x-spam-score: 5.2

When the score is greater than 5.0, it is a spam.

My personal wishlist:

I have installed SpamAssassin in my MTA, so, what I'm searching is way
to mailman to detect the "{Spam}" string in the subject and:
- differ or discard the message (this help automation)
- if the message is differed, don't email the subject/body of the email
  to the owner (this help the report email being marked as spam in 
another MTA)
- have a special flag "spam differed" so that you can do a "discard all 
messages marked as spam"
  in the DB maintenance.


Having an option to configure mailman as an email client, make it easier 
to integrate
it to MTAs.
If you need special settings for mailman in your MTA regarding Spam,
it makes a litle harder to install it.

Oliver

Louis Headley wrote:
> I have started to receive spam to my list. While my members are not recieving them (all posts must be approved), is there a way to discard all requests at once? At the moment, I must go thru the list one by one. THere as many as 40 per week. How can i stop people from spam my list?
> Help?
>
>   

-- 
Oliver Schulze L.
<oliver at samera.com.py>



From steve at stevesullam.com  Mon Jun 19 19:52:49 2006
From: steve at stevesullam.com (Steve Sullam)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:52:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] only administrator getting messages posted
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060619132144.01d513f8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060619114347.031f0e48@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<4496D7CB.4000408@stevesullam.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060619132144.01d513f8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <4496E471.3040502@stevesullam.com>

I am using mailman 2.1.6 with sendmail.  The problem I am having is that 
only the mailman administrator is getting messages posted. I think it 
has to do with aliases not being set up right. I follow the instructions

I run genlaliases  in /usr/local/mailman/bin and I get this:


mailman:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

When I add these aliases to /etc/aliases and I run newaliases all 
messages bounce back.  When I alias these accounts to my account at 
least it doesn't bounce back.  I can use the mass subscription to setup 
accounts and these accounts can have password reminders sent to them, 
but the posting doesn't work. I haven't been able to understand this 
process so maybe someone can send me a link to explain this better.

Thanks in advance,

Steve


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jun 19 20:12:24 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:12:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notifications - Logging original
	headers for Spam tracing
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Geoff Deering <geoff@deering.id.au>'
	dated: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:17:04 +1000
Message-ID: <200606191812.k5JICOJM005426@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

>Hi,
>
>Is there a log or any way of logging the original spam emails sent to 
>lists so that the original headers can be used for spam tracing and 
>reporting through the likes of spamcop.net?
>
>Regards
>Geoff

I believe the archives directory has the mail with complete
RFC 822/2822 headers.  That is what I observe in my limited testing
of mailman 2.1.8.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From steele at agora-net.com  Mon Jun 19 20:15:08 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:15:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to import mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061910064502961ab8fd95@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061910064502961ab8fd95@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4496E9AC.9090507@agora-net.com>

Mark,

Great advice!  That withlist binary did the trick!  Thanks for the 
helpful support, I appreciate it.

Best,
Ryan

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>   
>> When I simply copied 
>> the files from the lists directory on the production box to the lists 
>> directory on the test box, Mailman seemed to have a notion of the list 
>> (I couldn't create one with the same name), but when I listed all 
>> mailing lists from the admin interface, it did not show up in that list. 
>>     
>
>
> That's because the test box has a different domain name and
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is it's default Yes value. You can see the list
> either by running
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>
>
> on the test box or by putting
>
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>
> in mm_cfg.py.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.
>
>   



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 20:20:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:20:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
In-Reply-To: <4496DCE2.8070207@samera.com.py>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606191120080125493a9085@msapiro>

Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
>
>The problem with this is that SpamAssassin does not provide a
>header like:
>x-spam-flag: yes
>instead, it provides a header like:
>x-spam-score: 5.2


I don't know about your Spamassassin, but in mine, I have these
defaults:

#X-Spam-Flag: YES
add_header spam Flag _YESNOCAPS_

#X-Spam-Level: *************
add_header all Level _STARS(*)_

from in my case /usr/share/spamassassin/10_misc.cf.

The first causes "X-Spam-Flag: YES" to be added to all 'spam' and the
second causes "X-Spam-Level: *************" to be added to all
messages where the actual number of stars is the integral part of the
score. E.g., a message with a score of 1.9 gets "X-Spam-Level: *" and
a message with a score of 6.3 gets "X-Spam-Level: ******".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 20:27:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:27:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] only administrator getting messages posted
In-Reply-To: <4496E471.3040502@stevesullam.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606191127500796a9b6910e@msapiro>

Steve Sullam wrote:
>
>I run genlaliases  in /usr/local/mailman/bin and I get this:
>
>
>mailman:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>mailman-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>mailman-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>mailman-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>mailman-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>
>When I add these aliases to /etc/aliases and I run newaliases all 
>messages bounce back.


Why? What does the sendmail log say. What does the bounce notice say?


>When I alias these accounts to my account at 
>least it doesn't bounce back.  I can use the mass subscription to setup 
>accounts and these accounts can have password reminders sent to them, 
>but the posting doesn't work. I haven't been able to understand this 
>process so maybe someone can send me a link to explain this better.


You need those aliases in order to deliver mail to Mailman, i.e. pipe
the message incoming message to Mailman's wrapper program.

This could be a smrsh problem or a group mismatch problem depending on
why the mail is rejected.

See item 3 in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
and also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Mon Jun 19 20:48:30 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:48:30 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory Problem With Mailman
Message-ID: <1c22506e0606191148y657ae8day9de08d40008fd33a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I've a doubt about the memory use. I have a 55000+ announce list on a amd64
+ 1Gb RAM and noticed that mailman processeces are taken over 60% of the
entire RAM. Is that correct ??? Can I improve the memory consumption somehow
??

thanks in advance...

-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jun 19 20:21:07 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:21:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Oliver Schulze L." <oliver@samera.com.py>'
	dated: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:20:34 -0400
Message-ID: <200606191821.k5JIL7jH005768@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Louis Headley wrote:
>> I have started to receive spam to my list. While my members are not
>>recieving them (all posts must be approved), is there a way to discard
>>all requests at once? At the moment, I must go thru the list one by
>>one. THere as many as 40 per week. How can i stop people from spam my
>>list?
>> Help?

Oliver Schulze L. replied:
>I'm having the same problem.
>
>Maybe a solution can be to use the KNOW_SPAMERS[] variable as Mark 
>suggested,
>something like:
>
>KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('subject', '^.*spam'), ('x-spam-flag', 'yes')]
>
>The problem with this is that SpamAssassin does not provide a
>header like:
>x-spam-flag: yes
>instead, it provides a header like:
>x-spam-score: 5.2
>
>When the score is greater than 5.0, it is a spam.
>
>My personal wishlist:
>
>I have installed SpamAssassin in my MTA, so, what I'm searching is way
>to mailman to detect the "{Spam}" string in the subject and:
>- differ or discard the message (this help automation)
>- if the message is differed, don't email the subject/body of the email
>  to the owner (this help the report email being marked as spam in 
>another MTA)
>- have a special flag "spam differed" so that you can do a "discard all 
>messages marked as spam"
>  in the DB maintenance.
>
>
>Having an option to configure mailman as an email client, make it easier 
>to integrate
>it to MTAs.
>If you need special settings for mailman in your MTA regarding Spam,
>it makes a litle harder to install it.
>
>Oliver

We have SpamAssassin 3.1.3 installed, and it flags spam with a tag:

     Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: Financial Market Traderr...

in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf we have:

     # Rewrite subject line
     # Changed in SpamAssassin 3.x  8/11/05
     rewrite_header Subject *****SPAM*****

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 20:53:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:53:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notifications - Logging
	originalheaders for Spam tracing
In-Reply-To: <4496DC10.8090301@deering.id.au>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061911530703596f8a9c6e@msapiro>

Geoff Deering wrote:
>
>Is there a log or any way of logging the original spam emails sent to 
>lists so that the original headers can be used for spam tracing and 
>reporting through the likes of spamcop.net?


Not without modifying the code. If you want this info without modifying
Mailman. you have to hold the post rather than discard it, and have
the moderator discard it after copying the headers or checking
'Preserve messages for the site administrator' which will save a text
copy as data/spam-listname-nnnn.msg.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steele at agora-net.com  Mon Jun 19 20:53:32 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:53:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting by members treated as non-members
Message-ID: <4496F2AC.50302@agora-net.com>

I sent this in a reply to Mark Sapiro, but I feel I should give the list 
an opportunity to answer as well.  I've added a user to the list through 
the admin interface (via mass subscription), we'll call him user1 (added 
as user1 at domain.com).  However, when user1 attempts to send mail to the 
list, it bounces back, saying that he attempted to post to a 
members-only list as a non-member.  I double-checked that the user was 
added properly...and he was.  Has anyone else experienced this issue, or 
have any tips as to a resolution?  As always, thanks in advance! :-)

Best,
Ryan


From oliver at samera.com.py  Mon Jun 19 21:04:51 2006
From: oliver at samera.com.py (Oliver Schulze L.)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606191120080125493a9085@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606191120080125493a9085@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4496F553.60503@samera.com.py>

Hi Mark,
I'm using SpamAssassin from mimedefang.

I think I can include such header from my milter filter.

Many thanks for the details
Oliver

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
>   
>> The problem with this is that SpamAssassin does not provide a
>> header like:
>> x-spam-flag: yes
>> instead, it provides a header like:
>> x-spam-score: 5.2
>>     
>
>
> I don't know about your Spamassassin, but in mine, I have these
> defaults:
>
> #X-Spam-Flag: YES
> add_header spam Flag _YESNOCAPS_
>
> #X-Spam-Level: *************
> add_header all Level _STARS(*)_
>
> from in my case /usr/share/spamassassin/10_misc.cf.
>
> The first causes "X-Spam-Flag: YES" to be added to all 'spam' and the
> second causes "X-Spam-Level: *************" to be added to all
> messages where the actual number of stars is the integral part of the
> score. E.g., a message with a score of 1.9 gets "X-Spam-Level: *" and
> a message with a score of 6.3 gets "X-Spam-Level: ******".
>
>   

-- 
Oliver Schulze L.
<oliver at samera.com.py>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 19 21:05:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:05:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory Problem With Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0606191148y657ae8day9de08d40008fd33a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060619120528062517a8c34d@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>I've a doubt about the memory use. I have a 55000+ announce list on a amd64
>+ 1Gb RAM and noticed that mailman processeces are taken over 60% of the
>entire RAM. Is that correct ??? Can I improve the memory consumption somehow
>??


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.056.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steele at agora-net.com  Mon Jun 19 21:02:17 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:02:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to import mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061911574600783a3aba7c@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061911574600783a3aba7c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4496F4B9.40007@agora-net.com>

Mark,

I figured it out.  Silly me, I munged my SMTP config :-)  Thanks for the 
advice!

Best,
Ryan

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> One more quick question.  I've added a user to the mailing list to test 
>> that all I really needed to do was copy over that config.pck...however, 
>> the list still thinks the user isn't a member, even though they've been 
>> properly added.  I double-checked this by viewing the list members... 
>> user "member1 at hostname.com" is there...however mails from 
>> "member1 at hostname.com" get bounced back, saying they're waiting for 
>> moderator approval because they were posting as a non-member....any 
>> thoughts?  Thanks,
>>     
>
>
> If 'member1 at hostname.com' is on the admin membership list, it IS a
> member. if its posts are rejected because it's not a member, mailman
> is seeing some difference in the address. Perhaps the MTA is rewriting
> the From: domain on outgoing mail causing the mail to appear to be
> from 'member1 at otherhost.com' or something like that.
>
>   



From geoff at deering.id.au  Mon Jun 19 21:22:42 2006
From: geoff at deering.id.au (Geoff Deering)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:22:42 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notifications - Logging
 originalheaders for Spam tracing
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061911530703596f8a9c6e@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061911530703596f8a9c6e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4496F982.10604@deering.id.au>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Geoff Deering wrote:
>   
>> Is there a log or any way of logging the original spam emails sent to 
>> lists so that the original headers can be used for spam tracing and 
>> reporting through the likes of spamcop.net?
>>     
>
>
> Not without modifying the code. If you want this info without modifying
> Mailman. you have to hold the post rather than discard it, and have
> the moderator discard it after copying the headers or checking
> 'Preserve messages for the site administrator' which will save a text
> copy as data/spam-listname-nnnn.msg.
>   

Okay, thanks very much Mark, especially for taking the time to answer 
what was probably pretty obvious anyway, with some thought, but I didn't 
think of it.  That's feasible, especially since it is a low traffic 
announce list.

Geoff


From william.twomey at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 01:19:32 2006
From: william.twomey at gmail.com (Will Twomey)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:19:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing hostname of web interface page
Message-ID: <5e073d110606191619j2fb06e01jd24d9f3ceb041b34@mail.gmail.com>

My website and email (postfix + mailman) are hosted on two different servers.

I'd really like to be able to use the mailman web interface, but it
goes to the http server instead of the web server.

Instead of 'hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list' I'd like it to be
'list.hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list/general'

Does anyone know how I can do this without changing the mailman email
address from list at hostname.com to list at list.hostname.com?

I added the IP of my mail server to /etc/hosts, in order to use the
admin page, and I changed the "Host name this list prefers for email."
part. This didn't seem to change anything, though. :(

Thanks!

-Will


From spam at electroteque.org  Tue Jun 20 01:48:39 2006
From: spam at electroteque.org (electroteque)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:48:39 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] marketing software frontend for mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061907273903287134966f@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061907273903287134966f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c420ca2c6ce5b4ed2535bb18953d67a8@electroteque.org>


On 20/06/2006, at 12:27 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> I also tried
>
>    "marketing software"
>
> and
>
>    "marketing software" mailman
>
> And got 5,840,000 vs 9380 hits. Interestingly, the latter included a
> CRM package named MAILman (but not our Mailman) from Direct Marketing
> Software (DMS) <http://www.dmsw.com.au/>.

LOL yes well , Ive already seen that, we dont need CRM, we already have 
a members system in place, to be specific my boss is trying to replace 
something from topica but which also has the bells and whistles it may 
come with like the stats and reporting etc  and I know mailman well and 
would like to use it. Ill delist today sometime sorry to trouble you. 



From eli.tuber at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 02:08:14 2006
From: eli.tuber at gmail.com (Eli Tuber)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:08:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060818500105623dd9f7b3@msapiro>
References: <ffbc31930606081838i152c6f9eldb63ea7b18dd365a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060818500105623dd9f7b3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ffbc31930606191708i3aa4924bo74e19bee7d2efb78@mail.gmail.com>

Just for the record. I had our sysadmin make the changes suggested below and
it worked perfectly even on existing lists. GUI preference setup would be
nice but at least I can now change the default user count.

Thanks to all.

Eli


On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Eli Tuber" <eli.tuber at gmail.com>
>    Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
>      To: mailman-users at python.org
>
> >Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members
> list
> >once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would
> rather
> >see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
> >when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
> >turning them back on.
>
> No, but you can increase the value of N for a list.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 20 03:01:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:01:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing hostname of web interface page
In-Reply-To: <5e073d110606191619j2fb06e01jd24d9f3ceb041b34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606191801560468768bb4ac@msapiro>

Will Twomey wrote:
>
>Instead of 'hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list' I'd like it to be
>'list.hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list/general'
>
>Does anyone know how I can do this without changing the mailman email
>address from list at hostname.com to list at list.hostname.com?


Put the following in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.hostname.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

restart mailman and run fix_url.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

After all this is working OK, you may want to rebuild the archives with
'bin/arch --wipe listname' in order to fix the absolute links to the
listinfo page in the prior monthly index files.

Of course you will have to have an appropriately configured web server
on list.hostname.com.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From louis at artjamming.com  Tue Jun 20 03:55:38 2006
From: louis at artjamming.com (Louis Headley)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:55:38 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
References: <PC1740200606191120080125493a9085@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005701c6940c$a11e1720$3601a8c0@Louis>

The problem that i have is that my mailman in free from my webhost 
(hostway.com) and it is an old version. I think that it is 2.0 or 2.1. I 
could not do what Mark suggested in his first email because my version was 
too old and didnt have that functionality. i have since deleted the list and 
will put up a new list in a month or two. The spam was unbelievable.
even with this suggestion about the spamassasin, I am not sure that i would 
be able to do, as i have no idea where to find the "x-spam-flag".

thanks for your help guys...

Louis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Oliver Schulze L." <oliver at samera.com.py>; "Louis Headley" 
<louis at artjamming.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list


> Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
>>
>>The problem with this is that SpamAssassin does not provide a
>>header like:
>>x-spam-flag: yes
>>instead, it provides a header like:
>>x-spam-score: 5.2
>
>
> I don't know about your Spamassassin, but in mine, I have these
> defaults:
>
> #X-Spam-Flag: YES
> add_header spam Flag _YESNOCAPS_
>
> #X-Spam-Level: *************
> add_header all Level _STARS(*)_
>
> from in my case /usr/share/spamassassin/10_misc.cf.
>
> The first causes "X-Spam-Flag: YES" to be added to all 'spam' and the
> second causes "X-Spam-Level: *************" to be added to all
> messages where the actual number of stars is the integral part of the
> score. E.g., a message with a score of 1.9 gets "X-Spam-Level: *" and
> a message with a score of 6.3 gets "X-Spam-Level: ******".
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 20 04:57:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
In-Reply-To: <005701c6940c$a11e1720$3601a8c0@Louis>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061919572006563812b0c4@msapiro>

Louis Headley wrote:

>The problem that i have is that my mailman in free from my webhost 
>(hostway.com) and it is an old version. I think that it is 2.0 or 2.1. I 
>could not do what Mark suggested in his first email because my version was 
>too old and didnt have that functionality. i have since deleted the list and 
>will put up a new list in a month or two. The spam was unbelievable.


Unfortunately, with a host list such as you have (had), there is not
much you can do.

Your original post said posts weren't reaching the list but were being
held, and it was the discarding of held spam that was the problem
because of the volume.

About the only thing you can do is set the list to discard or reject
rather than hold posts from non-members, but I think this is a 2.1
option and may not be available if you have 2.0.x. Also, discard vs.
reject is somewhat controversial. Discard is best, but doesn't meet
the needs of all lists.


>even with this suggestion about the spamassasin, I am not sure that i would 
>be able to do, as i have no idea where to find the "x-spam-flag".


This is something that would have to be done by the web/Mailman host
before the mail reaches Mailman. It is not something you can do in
your situation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From louis at artjamming.com  Tue Jun 20 06:03:37 2006
From: louis at artjamming.com (Louis Headley)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:03:37 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
References: <PC17402006061919572006563812b0c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001601c6941e$8238fb60$3601a8c0@Louis>

Thanks again for your help Mark
Louis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Louis Headley" <louis at artjamming.com>; "Oliver Schulze L." 
<oliver at samera.com.py>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list


> Louis Headley wrote:
>
>>The problem that i have is that my mailman in free from my webhost
>>(hostway.com) and it is an old version. I think that it is 2.0 or 2.1. I
>>could not do what Mark suggested in his first email because my version was
>>too old and didnt have that functionality. i have since deleted the list 
>>and
>>will put up a new list in a month or two. The spam was unbelievable.
>
>
> Unfortunately, with a host list such as you have (had), there is not
> much you can do.
>
> Your original post said posts weren't reaching the list but were being
> held, and it was the discarding of held spam that was the problem
> because of the volume.
>
> About the only thing you can do is set the list to discard or reject
> rather than hold posts from non-members, but I think this is a 2.1
> option and may not be available if you have 2.0.x. Also, discard vs.
> reject is somewhat controversial. Discard is best, but doesn't meet
> the needs of all lists.
>
>
>>even with this suggestion about the spamassasin, I am not sure that i 
>>would
>>be able to do, as i have no idea where to find the "x-spam-flag".
>
>
> This is something that would have to be done by the web/Mailman host
> before the mail reaches Mailman. It is not something you can do in
> your situation.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 



From william.twomey at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 07:44:08 2006
From: william.twomey at gmail.com (Will Twomey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:44:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing hostname of web interface page
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606191801560468768bb4ac@msapiro>
References: <5e073d110606191619j2fb06e01jd24d9f3ceb041b34@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606191801560468768bb4ac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5e073d110606192244v18a6b5ejeba70bbcf0071236@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, that fixed it.  :)

A second question, if I may.

Is there a way to only allow some users to send messages to the list?
So the rest can only receive (seems like this would be useful for an
announcement list).

Hope that's not a stupid question.

Thanks for the quick reply. =)

-Will

On 6/19/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Will Twomey wrote:
> >
> >Instead of 'hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list' I'd like it to be
> >'list.hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list/general'
> >
> >Does anyone know how I can do this without changing the mailman email
> >address from list at hostname.com to list at list.hostname.com?
>
>
> Put the following in mm_cfg.py
>
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.hostname.com'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname.com'
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
> restart mailman and run fix_url.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.
>
> After all this is working OK, you may want to rebuild the archives with
> 'bin/arch --wipe listname' in order to fix the absolute links to the
> listinfo page in the prior monthly index files.
>
> Of course you will have to have an appropriately configured web server
> on list.hostname.com.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From oliver at samera.com.py  Tue Jun 20 07:58:11 2006
From: oliver at samera.com.py (Oliver Schulze L.)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:58:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing hostname of web interface page
In-Reply-To: <5e073d110606192244v18a6b5ejeba70bbcf0071236@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5e073d110606191619j2fb06e01jd24d9f3ceb041b34@mail.gmail.com>	<PC1740200606191801560468768bb4ac@msapiro>
	<5e073d110606192244v18a6b5ejeba70bbcf0071236@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44978E73.3080901@samera.com.py>

It is possible.
Look at the config pages(web) for setting the list as moderated or 
config that only
1 user has post permissions.

HTH
Oliver

Will Twomey wrote:
> Thank you, that fixed it.  :)
>
> A second question, if I may.
>
> Is there a way to only allow some users to send messages to the list?
> So the rest can only receive (seems like this would be useful for an
> announcement list).
>
> Hope that's not a stupid question.
>
> Thanks for the quick reply. =)
>
> -Will
>
> On 6/19/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>   
>> Will Twomey wrote:
>>     
>>> Instead of 'hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list' I'd like it to be
>>> 'list.hostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list/general'
>>>
>>> Does anyone know how I can do this without changing the mailman email
>>> address from list at hostname.com to list at list.hostname.com?
>>>       
>> Put the following in mm_cfg.py
>>
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.hostname.com'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname.com'
>> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>
>> restart mailman and run fix_url.
>>
>> See
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.
>>
>> After all this is working OK, you may want to rebuild the archives with
>> 'bin/arch --wipe listname' in order to fix the absolute links to the
>> listinfo page in the prior monthly index files.
>>
>> Of course you will have to have an appropriately configured web server
>> on list.hostname.com.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>>
>>     
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/oliver%40samera.com.py
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   

-- 
Oliver Schulze L.
<oliver at samera.com.py>



From imre.gergely at astral.ro  Tue Jun 20 13:29:32 2006
From: imre.gergely at astral.ro (Imre Gergely)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:29:32 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and mysql
Message-ID: <4497DC1C.4000904@astral.ro>


are there plans for using mysql to store lists/users data in a near future
version of mailman?

-- 
Imre Gergely
SysAdmin NOCS-CJ
Astral Telecom S.A.
Plugarilor 28, Cluj-Napoca
http://www.astral.ro


From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 16:45:23 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:45:23 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with UNsubscription
Message-ID: <1c22506e0606200745qa8a8b14t715c3246edde2fea@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I'm facing some problems with the unsubscription via e-mail procedure. While
all the subscriptions are fine my UNsubscriptions are not. There are no logs
that show error or success. I'm kinda lost. Could somebody show me again
what are the command to do the job ???

thanks in avance.

-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 16:49:13 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:49:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Problems with UNsubscription
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606200748m1c11e87ck8988488878d1cc33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1c22506e0606200745qa8a8b14t715c3246edde2fea@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00606200748m1c11e87ck8988488878d1cc33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606200749q24a809a0n557f25cf84e511a2@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Fabiano Breves <fabiano.breves at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm facing some problems with the unsubscription via e-mail procedure. While
> all the subscriptions are fine my UNsubscriptions are not. There are no logs
> that show error or success. I'm kinda lost. Could somebody show me again
> what are the command to do the job ???

See FAQ 3.28: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.028.htp

Basically, you send a blank email to <listname>-unsubscribe, it'll
send back a confirmation, you confirm, and then you're unsubscribed.


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 16:53:35 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Posting by members treated as non-members
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606200753v57ac9b30w292be070704cb9a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4496F2AC.50302@agora-net.com>
	<6fbe3da00606200753v57ac9b30w292be070704cb9a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606200753l5a034646v40fdfcc73e8ddeb0@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/19/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
<snip>
> as user1 at domain.com).  However, when user1 attempts to send mail to the
> list, it bounces back, saying that he attempted to post to a
> members-only list as a non-member.  I double-checked that the user was
> added properly...and he was.  Has anyone else experienced this issue, or
> have any tips as to a resolution?  As always, thanks in advance! :-)

Are you sure he's sending from exactly user1 at domain.com? (And not
like, user1 at foo.domain.com, or, alternatively, that you didn't
register user1 at foo.domain.com and he's sending from user1 at domain.com,
or that you didn't register something silly like user1 at domian.com?)

Reply-to-all. Reply-to-all. *glares at self*
--
- Patrick Bogen


From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 18:44:42 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:44:42 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with UNsubscription
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606200748m1c11e87ck8988488878d1cc33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1c22506e0606200745qa8a8b14t715c3246edde2fea@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00606200748m1c11e87ck8988488878d1cc33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1c22506e0606200944oaabcafasc9103b2c5da89bd6@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick,

I'm using the -request e-mail (i.e. foo-request at xxx.com.br) using commands
in the subject like:

SUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com

or

UNSUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com

The subscribe is ok... but the unsubscribe does not work.

am I doing something wrong ???


On 6/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 6/20/06, Fabiano Breves <fabiano.breves at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm facing some problems with the unsubscription via e-mail procedure.
> While
> > all the subscriptions are fine my UNsubscriptions are not. There are no
> logs
> > that show error or success. I'm kinda lost. Could somebody show me again
> > what are the command to do the job ???
>
> See FAQ 3.28:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.028.htp
>
> Basically, you send a blank email to <listname>-unsubscribe, it'll
> send back a confirmation, you confirm, and then you're unsubscribed.
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>



-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From steele at agora-net.com  Tue Jun 20 19:05:33 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:05:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't process requests properly?
Message-ID: <44982ADD.2080007@agora-net.com>

List,

I successfully figured most of my problems out.  However, due to certain 
requirements, I've had to change my Mailman setup.  Instead of editing 
the Exim4 configuration file to include the router and transport 
stanzas, I simply put the aliases in the domain's alias file.  Here's my 
problem though:  Mail appears to be routed properly, but never arrives.  
I was pretty sure the problem isn't with Exim (I ran it in debug mode in 
the foreground just to be sure), so I decided to create a little test.  
I created a text file with some legitimate headers and executed this: 
"cat testing-mailman.message |/home/mailman/mail/mailman post 
listname".  No output was generated to stderr or stdout, and the message 
never got there.  The admin interface confirms that the list is okay and 
happily gives me the members.  Shown below is the little test file.  Any 
suggestions?

Thanks,
Ryan

Here's the test file:

testbox:/home/user1# cat testing-mailman.message
Message-ID: <44980917.6020909 at domain.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:41:27 -0400
From: My Name <myname at domain.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516)
To:  Agoranet at testbox.agora-net.com
Subject: test 6/20

text


From steele at agora-net.com  Tue Jun 20 19:14:54 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:14:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't process requests properly?
In-Reply-To: <44982ADD.2080007@agora-net.com>
References: <44982ADD.2080007@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <44982D0E.8070206@agora-net.com>

Here's the Exim logs, in case it helps anybody...

2006-06-20 13:06:59 no IP address found for host 
testclient.101.168.192.in-addr.arpa (during SMTP connection from 
([192.168.101.14]) [192.168.101.14])
2006-06-20 13:06:59 1Fsjgp-0000at-Eg <= xxxx at xxxxxx.com 
H=([192.168.101.14]) [192.168.101.14] P=esmtpsa 
X=TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32 A=auth_plain:steele S=574 
id=44982C65.6050101 at xxxxxx.com
2006-06-20 13:06:59 1Fsjgp-0000at-Eg => |/home/mailman/mail/mailman post 
agoranet <list at testbox.xxxxxxx.com> R=virtual T=address_pipe
2006-06-20 13:06:59 1Fsjgp-0000at-Eg Completed

Thanks,
Ryan


Ryan Steele wrote:
> List,
>
> I successfully figured most of my problems out.  However, due to certain 
> requirements, I've had to change my Mailman setup.  Instead of editing 
> the Exim4 configuration file to include the router and transport 
> stanzas, I simply put the aliases in the domain's alias file.  Here's my 
> problem though:  Mail appears to be routed properly, but never arrives.  
> I was pretty sure the problem isn't with Exim (I ran it in debug mode in 
> the foreground just to be sure), so I decided to create a little test.  
> I created a text file with some legitimate headers and executed this: 
> "cat testing-mailman.message |/home/mailman/mail/mailman post 
> listname".  No output was generated to stderr or stdout, and the message 
> never got there.  The admin interface confirms that the list is okay and 
> happily gives me the members.  Shown below is the little test file.  Any 
> suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
> Here's the test file:
>
> testbox:/home/user1# cat testing-mailman.message
> Message-ID: <44980917.6020909 at domain.com>
> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:41:27 -0400
> From: My Name <myname at domain.com>
> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516)
> To:  Agoranet at testbox.agora-net.com
> Subject: test 6/20
>
> text
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steele%40agora-net.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   



From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Tue Jun 20 20:08:45 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:08:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>


For my mailing list the archiving options are as follows:

Archive message -  YES
Is archive file source for Public or Private  -  PUBLIC
How often should a new archive volume be started  -  MONTHLY

This is the default setting and I did not change it. When I post a message 
to the mailing list the message is not getting archived in the 
/usr/lib/mailman/archives/public directory.

I created the archives/public directory and its owner/group is mailman. I 
am not sure why my message is not getting archived. Could someone please 
guide me on this?

Thank You.

Uthra 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 21:17:14 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201217j298eb210x354e1774b0974dbe@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
> For my mailing list the archiving options are as follows:
snip
> I created the archives/public directory and its owner/group is mailman. I
> am not sure why my message is not getting archived. Could someone please
> guide me on this?

Are the files being updated properly in
archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox ?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 21:33:36 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620152150.01e84ee0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201217j298eb210x354e1774b0974dbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620152150.01e84ee0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201233s3c17620cp53d75c7460106ea3@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> I only created /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public directory and that is
> empty. I don't have a /usr/lib/mailman/archives/private/list.mbox/list.mbox

Is Mailman install set to archive?
('DEFAULT_ARCHIVE' -- This is 'On' in Defaults.py, but it might be
changed there (bad) or in mm_cfg.py (good, but still the problem, if
it's so))

What is the actual value of ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX ?

Are you using an external archiver? (Check PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER
and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER. Both should be 'No')

>
> When I go to the admin web interface of my mailing list and click on the
> link "Go to List Archives" I see the following.
>
> Archive View by: Downloadable version
> June 2006:
> <http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/thread.html>[
> Thread ]
> <http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/subject.html>[
> Subject ]
> <http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/author.html>[
> Author ]
> <http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/date.html>[ Date ]
> <http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June.txt.gz>[ Gzip'd
> Text 415 bytes ]

Do these links go anywhere meaningful for you?

P.s., please CC the list on all replies so that others may offer
suggestions, which will probably be better than mine.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Tue Jun 20 22:08:07 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:08:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606201233s3c17620cp53d75c7460106ea3@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201217j298eb210x354e1774b0974dbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620152150.01e84ee0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201233s3c17620cp53d75c7460106ea3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620160109.0697eba8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>

At 03:33 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote:
>On 6/20/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>I only created /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public directory and that is
>>empty. I don't have a /usr/lib/mailman/archives/private/list.mbox/list.mbox
>
>Is Mailman install set to archive?
>('DEFAULT_ARCHIVE' -- This is 'On' in Defaults.py, but it might be
>changed there (bad) or in mm_cfg.py (good, but still the problem, if
>it's so))

----->DEFAULT_ARCHIVE - THIS IS ON


>What is the actual value of ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX ?

-------> ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2


>Are you using an external archiver? (Check PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER
>and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER. Both should be 'No')

--------->PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = NO
---------->PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = NO


>>When I go to the admin web interface of my mailing list and click on the
>>link "Go to List Archives" I see the following.
>>
>>Archive View by: Downloadable version
>>June 2006:
>><http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/thread.html>[
>>Thread ]
>><http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/subject.html>[
>>Subject ]
>><http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/author.html>[
>>Author ]
>><http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June/date.html>[ Date ]
>><http://jacobi.gsfc.nasa.gov/pipermail/newlist/2006-June.txt.gz>[ Gzip'd
>>Text 415 bytes ]
>
>Do these links go anywhere meaningful for you?

--------> Yes these links go to the messages that were posted in this 
mailing list.


>P.s., please CC the list on all replies so that others may offer
>suggestions, which will probably be better than mine.
>
>--
>- Patrick Bogen



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 22:43:31 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:43:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620160109.0697eba8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201217j298eb210x354e1774b0974dbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620152150.01e84ee0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201233s3c17620cp53d75c7460106ea3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620160109.0697eba8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201343j4c9725c2r5d19fbb261db347b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
> --------> Yes these links go to the messages that were posted in this
> mailing list.

So, what's the problem? Or am I missing something?
It seems like your archiving is working as it's supposed to, yes?

The only issue I see here is that the archives aren't where you think they are.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 22:45:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:45:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't process requests properly?
In-Reply-To: <44982ADD.2080007@agora-net.com>
References: <44982ADD.2080007@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201345lfe20e3r66977174f2d032ac@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
> "cat testing-mailman.message |/home/mailman/mail/mailman post
> listname".  No output was generated to stderr or stdout, and the message
> never got there.  The admin interface confirms that the list is okay and
> happily gives me the members.  Shown below is the little test file.  Any
> suggestions?

I don't believe the mailman handlers generate console output, in any
case. Can you check your mailman logs? Specifically, error and vette.
But check all of them. On my system, they're in /var/log/mailman/.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Tue Jun 20 22:50:05 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606201343j4c9725c2r5d19fbb261db347b@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201217j298eb210x354e1774b0974dbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620152150.01e84ee0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201233s3c17620cp53d75c7460106ea3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620160109.0697eba8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201343j4c9725c2r5d19fbb261db347b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620164659.01e2a6d0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>


 From the admin web page of the list I am able to see the archives but if I 
login to the system and cd to /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public I don't see 
anything. I would like to know  in which directory it is archiving the 
messages?

Thank You.

Uthra



At 04:43 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote:
>On 6/20/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>--------> Yes these links go to the messages that were posted in this
>>mailing list.
>
>So, what's the problem? Or am I missing something?
>It seems like your archiving is working as it's supposed to, yes?
>
>The only issue I see here is that the archives aren't where you think they 
>are.
>
>--
>- Patrick Bogen



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 22:53:25 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:53:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620164659.01e2a6d0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620135335.01eed190@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201217j298eb210x354e1774b0974dbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620152150.01e84ee0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201233s3c17620cp53d75c7460106ea3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620160109.0697eba8@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<6fbe3da00606201343j4c9725c2r5d19fbb261db347b@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060620164659.01e2a6d0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201353u7ade507ar9814bfb9ef93330d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>  From the admin web page of the list I am able to see the archives but if I
> login to the system and cd to /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public I don't see
> anything. I would like to know  in which directory it is archiving the
> messages?

Check your Apache configuration for where that URL is linking to, or
else use something like find or locate at the shell to find the html
files.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mailmandev at whizardries.com  Tue Jun 20 22:38:55 2006
From: mailmandev at whizardries.com (Mickey Chandler)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:38:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not your usual "Premature end of script headers"
	email
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620152908.01af9228@earthlink.net>

I finally have to admit defeat.

I'm helping a friend run a server and we've got Mailman 2.1.8 
installed.  There are probably two dozen lists running on the machine 
with sizes running anywhere from 5 to 3000 members.

All of a sudden, we can't log in to the admin page for one and only 
one of the lists.  We get the 500 Server Error page and the error log 
reads: "Premature end of script headers: admin"

The FAQ says that this should be a compile issue and that I should 
retry building things with the proper GID.  That tells me that 
logging in to any of the lists should cause the error.  But, it's 
just this one list.  And I've tried that already anyway.  The error 
is still there.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why I'd see this error one just one list?




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 22:59:32 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:59:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not your usual "Premature end of script
	headers" email
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620152908.01af9228@earthlink.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620152908.01af9228@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201359j56e6a30fv499216c25fe9cd1e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Mickey Chandler <mailmandev at whizardries.com> wrote:
> All of a sudden, we can't log in to the admin page for one and only
> one of the lists.  We get the 500 Server Error page and the error log
> reads: "Premature end of script headers: admin"
>
> The FAQ says that this should be a compile issue and that I should
> retry building things with the proper GID.  That tells me that
> logging in to any of the lists should cause the error.  But, it's
> just this one list.  And I've tried that already anyway.  The error
> is still there.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas as to why I'd see this error one just one list?

Have you tried something like check_perms ?

Also, did you try what the FAQ suggested, just for kicks?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From arun at sdsc.edu  Tue Jun 20 23:19:20 2006
From: arun at sdsc.edu (Arun Jagatheesan)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:19:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: "discard all" option in mailman queue?
Message-ID: <00c801c694af$34d63900$1f12fea9@sanjaslpmbp>

 


I get lot of these spam mails on my list. It is no fun to indvidually go and
click discard to each mail. Is there a "discard all" in queue option?

I found this mails below addresses the same problem. But I don't find the
"discard all marked defer". 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36061.html

We have 2.0.8 mailman. Is this option found only in 2.1.x ?? Any help in
point me the right direction could save me a lot of time daily - 

Thanks,
Arun




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 23:25:02 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:25:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: "discard all" option in mailman queue?
In-Reply-To: <00c801c694af$34d63900$1f12fea9@sanjaslpmbp>
References: <00c801c694af$34d63900$1f12fea9@sanjaslpmbp>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201425x767ace54nae29ea5b5371dde5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Arun Jagatheesan <arun at sdsc.edu> wrote:
> I found this mails below addresses the same problem. But I don't find the
> "discard all marked defer".
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36061.html
>
> We have 2.0.8 mailman. Is this option found only in 2.1.x ?? Any help in
> point me the right direction could save me a lot of time daily -

This seems accurate. 2.0.8 is quite old. You would probably benefit
from upgrading.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From steele at agora-net.com  Tue Jun 20 23:23:48 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:23:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
Message-ID: <44986764.9090009@agora-net.com>

List,

I have a question about the options for the configure script.  I'm 
upgrading an installation of Mailman to 2.1.8, but I'm not sure what the 
previous sysadmin configured for the --with-mail-gid option.  He has 
apparently deleted the mailman-<version> directory, leaving only the 
target installation directory in his wake.  Is there any other place 
besides the config.log that would yield the options fed to configure?  
If not explicitly, is there a way to extrapolate this simply from the 
installation directory?  Thanks in advance for your help.

Best Regards,
Ryan


From mailmandev at whizardries.com  Tue Jun 20 23:32:46 2006
From: mailmandev at whizardries.com (Mickey Chandler)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:32:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not your usual "Premature end of script
 headers" email
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620163232.01d98e00@whizardries.com>

At 03:59 PM 6/20/2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
 >On 6/20/06, Mickey Chandler <mailmandev at whizardries.com> wrote:
 >> All of a sudden, we can't log in to the admin page for one and only
 >> one of the lists.  We get the 500 Server Error page and the error log
 >> reads: "Premature end of script headers: admin"
 >>
 >> The FAQ says that this should be a compile issue and that I should
 >> retry building things with the proper GID.  That tells me that
 >> logging in to any of the lists should cause the error.  But, it's
 >> just this one list.  And I've tried that already anyway.  The error
 >> is still there.
 >>
 >> Does anyone have any ideas as to why I'd see this error one just one list?
 >
 >Have you tried something like check_perms ?

Yes.  It said that a couple of the internationalization files had the 
wrong permissions.  Those have been fixed.  The error persists.

 >Also, did you try what the FAQ suggested, just for kicks?

You mean rebuilding with the proper GID?  Yeah.  It's what I meant 
when I said "And I've tried that already anyway."




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 00:06:09 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not your usual "Premature end of script
	headers" email
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620163232.01d98e00@whizardries.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620163232.01d98e00@whizardries.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201506n63321c99q12f256503559cedf@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Mickey Chandler <mailmandev at whizardries.com> wrote:
> At 03:59 PM 6/20/2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>  >Also, did you try what the FAQ suggested, just for kicks?
> You mean rebuilding with the proper GID?  Yeah.  It's what I meant
> when I said "And I've tried that already anyway."

Sorry, must've overlooked that. As a list-ditch attempt (which is to
say, you might want to wait until other list members weigh in on the
issue), you might try removing and recreating the problematic list.

The problem may be with this list's config.pck. You might try
restoring it from the automatic backup (config.pck.last, IIRC).

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 00:08:28 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:08:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <44986764.9090009@agora-net.com>
References: <44986764.9090009@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201508y6743b58fu377b2c01ba3b1718@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
> target installation directory in his wake.  Is there any other place
> besides the config.log that would yield the options fed to configure?
> If not explicitly, is there a way to extrapolate this simply from the
> installation directory?  Thanks in advance for your help.

Check the GID of the various scripts in cgi-bin. I believe this is
what's mainly effected. E.g., running the admin cgi-bin binary
manually gives:

pdbogen at vmmail:~$ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
Content-type: text/html

<head>
<title>Mailman CGI error!!!</title>
</head><body>
<h1>Mailman CGI error!!!</h1>
The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being
stored in your syslog:
<pre>
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
wrapper script to be executed as group "www-data", but
the system's web server executed the CGI script as
group "staff".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
script as group "www-data", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=staff'.</pre>

I'm not sure that it matters that this match the old installation, though.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 00:20:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:20:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with UNsubscription
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0606200944oaabcafasc9103b2c5da89bd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1c22506e0606200745qa8a8b14t715c3246edde2fea@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00606200748m1c11e87ck8988488878d1cc33@mail.gmail.com>
	<1c22506e0606200944oaabcafasc9103b2c5da89bd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606201520j5cf3d07and1fe9e59075fc82a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/06, Fabiano Breves <fabiano.breves at gmail.com> wrote:
> UNSUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com
>
> The subscribe is ok... but the unsubscribe does not work.
>
> am I doing something wrong ???

This is the right syntax. The cmd_unsubscribe handler looks like it
should be generating output unless you omit the password (in which
case it generates a confirmation). I'm not sure what else might be
going wrong, here.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From haibatanbiblio at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jun 21 00:26:12 2006
From: haibatanbiblio at yahoo.co.uk (Farid Haibatan)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:26:12 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cpanel mailing lists no longer working
Message-ID: <20060620222612.68641.qmail@web25311.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I hope someone can point in the right direction to my
problem.
Basically, my mailing lists are no longer working. Any
mails sent are not delivered nor archived and users or
the administrator do not receive any error messages
either...not sure what has happened.
The mailman lists are created in cPanel and have been
working fine and some are more than 8 months old.
I created a new one today and tested it..I put myself
down as a member)...posted to it and same result.
Any help?

Thanks.


		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 00:56:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:56:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing hostname of web interface page
In-Reply-To: <5e073d110606192244v18a6b5ejeba70bbcf0071236@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062015561909373bcc3a9c@msapiro>

Will Twomeywrote:
>
>Is there a way to only allow some users to send messages to the list?
>So the rest can only receive (seems like this would be useful for an
>announcement list).


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 01:12:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:12:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with UNsubscription
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0606200944oaabcafasc9103b2c5da89bd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062016120803123736e4e0@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>I'm using the -request e-mail (i.e. foo-request at xxx.com.br) using commands
>in the subject like:
>
>SUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com
>
>or
>
>UNSUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com
>
>The subscribe is ok... but the unsubscribe does not work.
>
>am I doing something wrong ???


Maybe. In the first sentence you use 'foo' to refer to the list name.
In the unsubscribe command, you use it again, but here it is not the
list name (which is determined by the address you mailed to); it is
your list password.

It is also the password in the subscribe command, but here it sets the
password, so it can't be 'wrong'.

What happens in response to your mail to foo-request? You should always
get a reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 01:19:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:19:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't process requests properly?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606201345lfe20e3r66977174f2d032ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062016194907343736e6af@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/20/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
>> "cat testing-mailman.message |/home/mailman/mail/mailman post
>> listname".  No output was generated to stderr or stdout, and the message
>> never got there.  The admin interface confirms that the list is okay and
>> happily gives me the members.  Shown below is the little test file.  Any
>> suggestions?
>
>I don't believe the mailman handlers generate console output, in any
>case. Can you check your mailman logs? Specifically, error and vette.
>But check all of them. On my system, they're in /var/log/mailman/.


Actually, the wrappers do generate output if they fail. The lack of any
output from the command indicates a very, very high probability (I
hesitate to say certainty, but it's close) that the message was queued
in qfiles/in/. If nothing further happened, perhaps Mailman (or at
least IncomingRunner) isn't running (bin/mailmanctl start).

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 01:47:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:47:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620164659.01e2a6d0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062016470604803736e586@msapiro>

Uthra Rao wrote:

>
> From the admin web page of the list I am able to see the archives but if I 
>login to the system and cd to /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public I don't see 
>anything. I would like to know  in which directory it is archiving the 
>messages?


All archives are created and maintained in the archives/private/
structure only. In addition, lists with public archives have a symlink
from archives/public/listname to archives/private/listname.

Any archive can be accesses via something like
http://example.com/mailman/private/listname/, but this requires
authentication even if the archive is public.

Public archives should be accessible via via something like
http://example.com/pipermail/listname/ (determined by
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL) which requires
something like

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public/

in the web server configuration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 01:53:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not your usual "Premature end of scriptheaders"
	email
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606201506n63321c99q12f256503559cedf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062016532303233736e4fa@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>The problem may be with this list's config.pck. You might try
>restoring it from the automatic backup (config.pck.last, IIRC).


Good advice.  Also check your web server's error log (error_log in
Apache), and Mailman's error log.

Does anything work for this list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 02:01:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:01:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: "discard all" option in mailman queue?
In-Reply-To: <00c801c694af$34d63900$1f12fea9@sanjaslpmbp>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062017013108863736e735@msapiro>

Arun Jagatheesanwrote:
>
>I get lot of these spam mails on my list. It is no fun to indvidually go and
>click discard to each mail. Is there a "discard all" in queue option?
>
>I found this mails below addresses the same problem. But I don't find the
>"discard all marked defer". 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36061.html
>
>We have 2.0.8 mailman. Is this option found only in 2.1.x ?? Any help in
>point me the right direction could save me a lot of time daily - 


The "Discard all marked defer" appeared in 2.1.5. Also new in 2.1 is a
bin/discard script which would allow you to do something like

bin/discard data/heldmsg-listname-*

I don't know if this script can be easily adapted to 2.0.8 or not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailmandev at whizardries.com  Wed Jun 21 02:11:22 2006
From: mailmandev at whizardries.com (Mickey Chandler)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:11:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not your usual "Premature end of scriptheaders"
 email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062016532303233736e4fa@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606201506n63321c99q12f256503559cedf@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006062016532303233736e4fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060620191016.01c9c4b8@whizardries.com>

At 06:53 PM 6/20/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 >Patrick Bogen wrote:
 >>
 >>The problem may be with this list's config.pck. You might try
 >>restoring it from the automatic backup (config.pck.last, IIRC).
 >
 >
 >Good advice.  Also check your web server's error log (error_log in
 >Apache), and Mailman's error log.

That worked.

I don't think anything at all was working for the list.  I didn't 
think to try to subscribe or alter settings.

Thanks for your help, guys!




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 02:13:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:13:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <44986764.9090009@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062017134904803736e5b1@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>I have a question about the options for the configure script.  I'm 
>upgrading an installation of Mailman to 2.1.8, but I'm not sure what the 
>previous sysadmin configured for the --with-mail-gid option.  He has 
>apparently deleted the mailman-<version> directory, leaving only the 
>target installation directory in his wake.  Is there any other place 
>besides the config.log that would yield the options fed to configure?  
>If not explicitly, is there a way to extrapolate this simply from the 
>installation directory?  Thanks in advance for your help.


Patrick gave a good hint, but with respect to the CGI wrappers and
--with-cgi-gid.

For the mail wrapper, run the command

path/to/mail/mailman post

The wrapper will check the invoking GID before the list so the absence
of the list in the command is OK. The output should tell you what
group(s) is/are expected. If it complains about the missing list arg,
you ran it as one of the expected groups.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 02:23:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:23:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cpanel mailing lists no longer working
In-Reply-To: <20060620222612.68641.qmail@web25311.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062017231604642945a460@msapiro>

Farid Haibatan wrote:

>Basically, my mailing lists are no longer working. Any
>mails sent are not delivered nor archived and users or
>the administrator do not receive any error messages
>either...not sure what has happened.
>The mailman lists are created in cPanel and have been
>working fine and some are more than 8 months old.
>I created a new one today and tested it..I put myself
>down as a member)...posted to it and same result.


It sounds like one or more of your qrunners isn't running. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 21 02:00:42 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:00:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cpanel mailing lists no longer working
In-Reply-To: <20060620222612.68641.qmail@web25311.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060620222612.68641.qmail@web25311.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701c0be3ba5a444@[192.168.1.101]>

At 11:26 PM +0100 2006-06-20, Farid Haibatan wrote:

>  Basically, my mailing lists are no longer working. Any
>  mails sent are not delivered nor archived and users or
>  the administrator do not receive any error messages
>  either...not sure what has happened.

	Please see FAQ 6.11 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

>  The mailman lists are created in cPanel and have been
>  working fine and some are more than 8 months old.
>  I created a new one today and tested it..I put myself
>  down as a member)...posted to it and same result.
>  Any help?

	Any time you have problems like this, the first thing you need to 
do is to look at the log files to see what is being reported.  The 
problem is that, as a cPanel hosted list, you don't have access to 
those log files -- only your provider does.  The cPanel folks might 
also be able to help -- see the FAQ referenced above.

	You can try the "troubleshooting" tips laid out in FAQ 3.14 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>, 
but you're not going to be able to do all of these things, because 
your lists are hosted through cPanel.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 03:23:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:23:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and mysql
In-Reply-To: <4497DC1C.4000904@astral.ro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606201823270105f8366ea4@msapiro>

Imre Gergely wrote:
>
>are there plans for using mysql to store lists/users data in a near future
>version of mailman?


There are plans for a backend database in Mailman 2.2, but how 'near'
that future is is hard to say. See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

There is currently, a MySQL MemberAdaptor for member data but not list
data. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
There is ongoing development of this. See
<http://trac.rezo.net/trac/rezo/browser/Mailman>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Kane.STERLING at gol.gsi.gov.uk  Wed Jun 21 11:45:03 2006
From: Kane.STERLING at gol.gsi.gov.uk (Kane STERLING)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:45:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!!!
Message-ID: <s4992335.054@go-regions.gsi.gov.uk>

I sent a mail out to one of my lists and it's sent over 50 of the same
mail to it! How can I stop it immediately?!
Kane
 
Kane Sterling
Contracts and Procurement Executive
Accommodation & Procurement Team
Corporate Strategy Division
6th Floor
Riverwalk House
157-161 Millbank
London 
SW1P 4RR
(T) 0207 217 3352
(F) 0207 217 3501
 
Government Office for London - Representing Central Government across
the Capital
 
 


The original of this email was scanned for viruses by Government Secure Intranet (GSi)  virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs.
On leaving the GSI this email was certified virus free.
The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality mark initiative for information security products and services.  For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Kane STERLING.vcf
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20060621/76c3ff80/attachment.pot 

From ge at linuxbox.org  Wed Jun 21 12:15:43 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:15:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!!!
In-Reply-To: <s4992335.054@go-regions.gsi.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0606210515070.24300-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Kane STERLING wrote:
> I sent a mail out to one of my lists and it's sent over 50 of the same
> mail to it! How can I stop it immediately?!
> Kane

Clear the queue?
Kill the server?

How IMMEDIATE do you want it? These would also lose potentially other
messages.

>  
> Kane Sterling
> Contracts and Procurement Executive
> Accommodation & Procurement Team
> Corporate Strategy Division
> 6th Floor
> Riverwalk House
> 157-161 Millbank
> London 
> SW1P 4RR
> (T) 0207 217 3352
> (F) 0207 217 3501
>  
> Government Office for London - Representing Central Government across
> the Capital
>  
>  
> 
> 
> The original of this email was scanned for viruses by Government Secure Intranet (GSi)  virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs.
> On leaving the GSI this email was certified virus free.
> The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality mark initiative for information security products and services.  For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk



From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 14:54:25 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:54:25 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with UNsubscription
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062016120803123736e4e0@msapiro>
References: <1c22506e0606200944oaabcafasc9103b2c5da89bd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006062016120803123736e4e0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1c22506e0606210554p1b0bdd07ieb14e9516c1e8f39@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,


That was the problem. I figured it out yesteday. So I took it off the
command and now everything is ok. Not quite what I wanted though, but it is
better than do not have a way to unsubscribe.

Everyone, Thanks for the help.


On 6/20/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Fabiano Breves wrote:
> >
> >I'm using the -request e-mail (i.e. foo-request at xxx.com.br) using
> commands
> >in the subject like:
> >
> >SUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com
> >
> >or
> >
> >UNSUBSCRIBE foo address=myemail at mydomain.com
> >
> >The subscribe is ok... but the unsubscribe does not work.
> >
> >am I doing something wrong ???
>
>
> Maybe. In the first sentence you use 'foo' to refer to the list name.
> In the unsubscribe command, you use it again, but here it is not the
> list name (which is determined by the address you mailed to); it is
> your list password.
>
> It is also the password in the subscribe command, but here it sets the
> password, so it can't be 'wrong'.
>
> What happens in response to your mail to foo-request? You should always
> get a reply.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 14:57:51 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:57:51 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making mailman stops send a list
Message-ID: <1c22506e0606210557n4f96f23bqdef8b8d60a01aa8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ALL,

I was thinking about a situation when you send a msg to a announce list and
realizes that something is wrong. How can I make mailman stop sending the
e-mails ???

thanks in advance.

-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From greg at ccsbygreg.com  Wed Jun 21 15:41:31 2006
From: greg at ccsbygreg.com (greg at ccsbygreg.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:41:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list not getting sent out
Message-ID: <20060621094131.n8sb57hg36gcg4k4@webmail.ccsbygreg.com>

Hi,
When i setup the mailing list the confirmation email gets sent out to  
the admin and also the people who sign up for it but when i try to  
send a mailing it doest get forwarded on, it appears to be sent  
properly and i dont get any messages back saying that the message  
could not be delivered.  I am running this on a redhat vds. Thanks for  
any help you may be able to give me.
Greg



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 16:18:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:18:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making mailman stops send a list
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0606210557n4f96f23bqdef8b8d60a01aa8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606210718540375714a0dcd@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>I was thinking about a situation when you send a msg to a announce list and
>realizes that something is wrong. How can I make mailman stop sending the
>e-mails ???


Unless your list has many thousands of members, by the time you realize
there is a problem, Mailman has probably finished delivering to the
outgoing MTA, and there is nothing you can do in Mailman to abort
delivery. This would have to be addressed in the outgoing MTA,
assuming it is not also finished.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 16:20:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:20:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list not getting sent out
In-Reply-To: <20060621094131.n8sb57hg36gcg4k4@webmail.ccsbygreg.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606210720040250714a0d1e@msapiro>

greg at ccsbygreg.com wrote:

>When i setup the mailing list the confirmation email gets sent out to  
>the admin and also the people who sign up for it but when i try to  
>send a mailing it doest get forwarded on, it appears to be sent  
>properly and i dont get any messages back saying that the message  
>could not be delivered.  I am running this on a redhat vds. Thanks for  
>any help you may be able to give me.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 16:29:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:29:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!!!
In-Reply-To: <s4992335.054@go-regions.gsi.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606210729540046a59c46c4@msapiro>

Kane STERLING wrote:
>
>I sent a mail out to one of my lists and it's sent over 50 of the same
>mail to it! How can I stop it immediately?!

If you have sufficient access to the server,

bin/mailmanctl stop

is the first step. If not, you have to get someone who does have access.

You can also turn on emergency moderation on the list's General Options
page.

Then you have to figure out what's causing this. Is a member's
autoresponder posting back to the list? If so, unsubscribe or disable
delivery to that member.

Mailman has loop protection that will generally not loop when for
example, a list is subscribed to itself, but depending on what's
causing the looping, this may not be effective as it relies on the
presence of an X-BeenThere: <list> header that may be stripped
somewhere in the loop.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From haibatanbiblio at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jun 21 16:46:11 2006
From: haibatanbiblio at yahoo.co.uk (Farid Haibatan)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:46:11 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cpanel mailing lists no longer working
Message-ID: <20060621144611.8D1461E4005@bag.python.org>

Thanks to everyone who replied...after reading the faq..I checked and found out that the mailman daemon was not running, told the host and all is fine :-)

-----Original Message-----
    From: "Brad Knowles"<brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
    Sent: 21/06/06 00:00:42
    To: "Farid Haibatan"<haibatanbiblio at yahoo.co.uk>
    Cc: "mailman-users at python.org"<mailman-users at python.org>
    Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Cpanel mailing lists no longer working
    
    At 11:26 PM +0100 2006-06-20, Farid Haibatan wrote:
    
    >  Basically, my mailing lists are no longer working. Any
    >  mails sent are not delivered nor archived and users or
    >  the administrator do not receive any error messages
    >  either...not sure what has happened.
    
    	Please see FAQ 6.11 at 
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
    
    >  The mailman lists are created in cPanel and have been
    >  working fine and some are more than 8 months old.
    >  I created a new one today and tested it..I put myself
    >  down as a member)...posted to it and same result.
    >  Any help?
    
    	Any time you have problems like this, the first thing you need to 
    do is to look at the log files to see what is being reported.  The 
    problem is that, as a cPanel hosted list, you don't have access to 
    those log files -- only your provider does.  The cPanel folks might 
    also be able to help -- see the FAQ referenced above.
    
    	You can try the "troubleshooting" tips laid out in FAQ 3.14 at 
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>, 
    but you're not going to be able to do all of these things, because 
    

[Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]


		
___________________________________________________________ 
Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html


From harakiri_23 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 21 16:45:02 2006
From: harakiri_23 at yahoo.com (Harakiri)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:45:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC Header to Ignore Messages (dont send them to
	the list?)
Message-ID: <20060621144502.27117.qmail@web52206.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

i wish to know if there is a header field or something
similar to tell the mailinglist application to ignore
a message send to them.

I.e. sometimes automatic systems generate emails to
email addresses - however they do not know whether the
receiving email address is one entity (a user) or a
group (a maillinglist) - if the second would be the
case the message should be discarded.

There is, in RFC 2156 a header by the name of
"Autosubmitted" however - it seems to only apply to
responses i.e. that no automated system should respond
to such a message.

I tried the approach of using an empty enveloped FROM
but that didnt seem to work either (and has the
backdraw that the sending user would not know that
such a message would not be received)

thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Jun 21 17:04:49 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:04:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062017134904803736e5b1@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006062017134904803736e5b1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44996011.60900@agora-net.com>

Thanks for the tips guys, that helped me figure out which values to give 
those fields in configure.  The upgrade seemed to go smoothly, however I 
can no longer send mail.  Here's the error I get in Mailman's logs:

Jun 21 10:50:10 2006 (1861) Uncaught runner exception: 'module' object 
has no attribute 'OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING'
Jun 21 10:50:10 2006 (1861) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 83, in process
    prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 274, in 
prefix_subject
    old_style = mm_cfg.OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING'

Jun 21 10:50:10 2006 (1861) SHUNTING: 
1150901409.174751+3b3acb6a64ae7c962b5567a5bc6c9111dc8b213e


I'm not sure if i specified but I was going from 2.1.5 to 2.1.8.

Best,
Ryan

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> I have a question about the options for the configure script.  I'm 
>> upgrading an installation of Mailman to 2.1.8, but I'm not sure what the 
>> previous sysadmin configured for the --with-mail-gid option.  He has 
>> apparently deleted the mailman-<version> directory, leaving only the 
>> target installation directory in his wake.  Is there any other place 
>> besides the config.log that would yield the options fed to configure?  
>> If not explicitly, is there a way to extrapolate this simply from the 
>> installation directory?  Thanks in advance for your help.
>>     
>
>
> Patrick gave a good hint, but with respect to the CGI wrappers and
> --with-cgi-gid.
>
> For the mail wrapper, run the command
>
> path/to/mail/mailman post
>
> The wrapper will check the invoking GID before the list so the absence
> of the list in the command is OK. The output should tell you what
> group(s) is/are expected. If it complains about the missing list arg,
> you ran it as one of the expected groups.
>
>   



From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Jun 21 17:33:11 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:33:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <44996011.60900@agora-net.com>
References: <PC17402006062017134904803736e5b1@msapiro>
	<44996011.60900@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <449966B7.5050908@agora-net.com>

All,

Solved my problem by putting the following in mm_cfg.py:

OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan Steele wrote:
> Thanks for the tips guys, that helped me figure out which values to give 
> those fields in configure.  The upgrade seemed to go smoothly, however I 
> can no longer send mail.  Here's the error I get in Mailman's logs:
>
> Jun 21 10:50:10 2006 (1861) Uncaught runner exception: 'module' object 
> has no attribute 'OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING'
> Jun 21 10:50:10 2006 (1861) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
> _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
> _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 83, in process
>     prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 274, in 
> prefix_subject
>     old_style = mm_cfg.OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING'
>
> Jun 21 10:50:10 2006 (1861) SHUNTING: 
> 1150901409.174751+3b3acb6a64ae7c962b5567a5bc6c9111dc8b213e
>
>
> I'm not sure if i specified but I was going from 2.1.5 to 2.1.8.
>
> Best,
> Ryan
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> I have a question about the options for the configure script.  I'm 
>>> upgrading an installation of Mailman to 2.1.8, but I'm not sure what the 
>>> previous sysadmin configured for the --with-mail-gid option.  He has 
>>> apparently deleted the mailman-<version> directory, leaving only the 
>>> target installation directory in his wake.  Is there any other place 
>>> besides the config.log that would yield the options fed to configure?  
>>> If not explicitly, is there a way to extrapolate this simply from the 
>>> installation directory?  Thanks in advance for your help.
>>>     
>>>       
>> Patrick gave a good hint, but with respect to the CGI wrappers and
>> --with-cgi-gid.
>>
>> For the mail wrapper, run the command
>>
>> path/to/mail/mailman post
>>
>> The wrapper will check the invoking GID before the list so the absence
>> of the list in the command is OK. The output should tell you what
>> group(s) is/are expected. If it complains about the missing list arg,
>> you ran it as one of the expected groups.
>>
>>   
>>     
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steele%40agora-net.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 21 17:48:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:48:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <449966B7.5050908@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606210848200062510fe372@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>Solved my problem by putting the following in mm_cfg.py:
>
>OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No


But you still have a problem because either you don't have a 2.1.8
Defaults.py which contains

OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes

or your mm_cfg.py is missing the stuff near the beginning that says

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.


If it's the latter, there would be lots of problems like you reported
in the original post, so I'm guessing there's more likely a problem
with your Defaults.py. If you compare it to the distribution
Defaults.py.in, they should be the same except for those variable
settings which are expanded by configure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us  Wed Jun 21 19:52:31 2006
From: patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us (Patrick Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:52:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very new to Mailman and it crashed
Message-ID: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E898F@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>

Running RedHat9/python/mailman2.1/sendmail

System crashed the other day and mailman isn't really working.  I could
still send messages that I could see in the list GUI, but new messages
don't show up there anymore.  They appear to be going to
/var/mailman/data and sitting there.  I do not see qrunner running, but
when I issue service sendmail start, it goes and gets a few more
messages.  But once again they are not in the moderators gui as pending.
This is the first time I've ever really dealt with mailman so I don't
know where to look for problems.  I trien unshunt and check_db and
neither fixed the problem.  Error and Qrunner logs follow:

Error log:
UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated

Jun 21 13:26:34 2006 (2471) SHUNTING:
1150908402.4748271+e9e75e368251375aa306ea971736e885b7d7560f
Jun 21 13:26:34 2006 (2471) Uncaught runner exception: pickle data was
truncated
Jun 21 13:26:34 2006 (2471) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 155, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 109, in process
    Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, Hold.NonMemberPost)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 226, in
hold_for_approval
    cookie = Pending.new(Pending.HELD_MESSAGE, id)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 64, in new
    db = _load()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 121, in _load
    return cPickle.load(fp)
UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated

Jun 21 13:26:34 2006 (2471) SHUNTING:
1150910742.7856491+0b75055b03c781f772d8a65236ad4044fa28b5e7
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2469) Uncaught runner exception: expected read
buffer, list found
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2469) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 155, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 75, in
_dispose
    addrs = BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py", line 64, in
ScanMessages
    addrs = sys.modules[modname].process(msg)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Microsoft.py", line 35, in process
    body = StringIO(subpart.get_payload())
TypeError: expected read buffer, list found


Qrunner log:

Jun 21 13:18:55 2006 (2468) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:18:56 2006 (2469) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:18:56 2006 (2470) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:18:56 2006 (2471) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:18:56 2006 (2472) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:18:57 2006 (2474) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:18:57 2006 (2473) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2468) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2468) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2469) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2470) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2470) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2471) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2471) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2472) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2472) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2473) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2473) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2474) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.
Stopping.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2474) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2470, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2471, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2472, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2473, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2468, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2474, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2469) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Jun 21 13:26:52 2006 (2467) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 2469, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 20:19:08 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:19:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC Header to Ignore Messages (dont send them
	to the list?)
In-Reply-To: <20060621144502.27117.qmail@web52206.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060621144502.27117.qmail@web52206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606211119y4d84364at322a269e7fffc1f7@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/06, Harakiri <harakiri_23 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> i wish to know if there is a header field or something
> similar to tell the mailinglist application to ignore
> a message send to them.

If you can directly manipulate the headers of your message, you can
add some X-No-Distribute header, and add sender_header_filters to
mailman to automatically discard such a message.

That said, I don't think there's any header already programmed to do
what you want.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Jun 21 21:10:14 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:10:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606210848200062510fe372@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606210848200062510fe372@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44999996.6000602@agora-net.com>

Mark,

All I did was follow the instructions in UPGRADE included with 2.1.8.  
There is a Defaults.py at /path/to/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py with the 
line OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes in it.  So, unless the instructions in 
UPGRADE (basically, to run ./configure with the same options as the 
previous install and then execute a make install) are flawed, there 
shouldn't be any reason why I got that error.  Nevertheless,  I seem to 
get no errors in any of Mailman's logs or Exim's logs after I made that 
change.  Not sure why it wouldn't pick up the line in Defaults.py....

Best,
Ryan

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> Solved my problem by putting the following in mm_cfg.py:
>>
>> OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No
>>     
>
>
> But you still have a problem because either you don't have a 2.1.8
> Defaults.py which contains
>
> OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes
>
> or your mm_cfg.py is missing the stuff near the beginning that says
>
> ###############################################
> # Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
>
> from Defaults import *
>
> ##################################################
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>
>
> If it's the latter, there would be lots of problems like you reported
> in the original post, so I'm guessing there's more likely a problem
> with your Defaults.py. If you compare it to the distribution
> Defaults.py.in, they should be the same except for those variable
> settings which are expanded by configure.
>
>   



From harakiri_23 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 21 22:40:17 2006
From: harakiri_23 at yahoo.com (Harakiri)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC Header to Ignore Messages (dont send them
	to the list?)
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606211119y4d84364at322a269e7fffc1f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060621204018.32390.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

> That said, I don't think there's any header already
> programmed to do
> what you want.

That was my question - note that this is not asked
about mailman but about maillinglist in general.
So there is no way at all to NOT distribute a message
sent to a list ? Even if the mail is from a known list
member (from field). (Since i do not have control over
all mailing list - enabling filtering which is not
done by default is not an option)

Thats really weird, after all these years of mailing
lists there should be something like this to catch off
all alerting messages and such like :

* DSNs
* Out of Office
* Mail Loop

A simple header within the mail would have been enough
- and no mailling software implemented one ?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 00:15:27 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:15:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC Header to Ignore Messages (dont send them
	to the list?)
In-Reply-To: <20060621204018.32390.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6fbe3da00606211119y4d84364at322a269e7fffc1f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060621204018.32390.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606211515o623d6afend8c2ca4bcdecaa88@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/06, Harakiri <harakiri_23 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> * DSNs
> * Out of Office
> * Mail Loop

These things generally go to the From address, which, in Mailman, is
the <list>-bounces address, so they'll automatically be ignored. (More
accurately, they'll be counted as bounces, and whomever sent them will
get such a bounce marked against them for the purposes of disabling
delivery.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From tony.dragone at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 04:25:19 2006
From: tony.dragone at gmail.com (Antonio Dragone)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:25:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and fault tolerance
Message-ID: <8c78f1bb0606211925o1f7a4c0fif649818d68c885ce@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!
I have a mailing list of members subscribed to an e-news letter.
Yesterday in the morning I started the letter delivery but in the
evening someone shut down the mailman server.
Today in the morning I started the server again and I found about 400
e-mails in the sendmail queue.
Is there some way to know if mailman could send the rest of letters
(about 11.000 email addresses)?
I know by experience that Mailman doesn't deliver the 11k emails at
once but in groups of 50 addresses (more or less depending of server
response).
Has mailman some kind of fault tolerance to resume an incomplete job?

Thank you all!
Antonio


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun 22 06:12:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:12:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC Header to Ignore Messages (dont send them
 to the list?)
In-Reply-To: <20060621204018.32390.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060621204018.32390.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701c0bfc7f3ba0c@[10.0.1.7]>

At 1:40 PM -0700 6/21/06, Harakiri wrote:

>  That was my question - note that this is not asked
>  about mailman but about maillinglist in general.
>  So there is no way at all to NOT distribute a message
>  sent to a list ? Even if the mail is from a known list
>  member (from field).

	No, there is no standard method of preventing the distribution of 
a message.

	Feel free to write an RFC on this subject, and then convince all 
the MUA, MTA, and MLM authors in the world to support that RFC.

>  Thats really weird, after all these years of mailing
>  lists there should be something like this to catch off
>  all alerting messages and such like :
>
>  * DSNs
>  * Out of Office
>  * Mail Loop

	Those are totally different things, handled in different (and better) ways.

>  A simple header within the mail would have been enough
>  - and no mailling software implemented one ?

	No, a simple header would not have been enough.  You need to 
understand the difference between "envelope sender" and header 
"From:" field, and how things like bounces, mail loops, etc... are 
handled.

	These subjects are covered by two totally different RFC families, 
and if you want to have intelligent discussions on these topics, you 
need to read and fully understand all the members of both RFC 
families.  That's a lot of reading.


	Moreover, these kinds of discussions really aren't appropriate 
for this list -- you would need to get onto the appropriate IETF 
working groups, and talk about them there.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun 22 06:16:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:16:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and fault tolerance
In-Reply-To: <8c78f1bb0606211925o1f7a4c0fif649818d68c885ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c78f1bb0606211925o1f7a4c0fif649818d68c885ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702c0bfc96a1201@[10.0.1.7]>

At 9:25 PM -0500 6/21/06, Antonio Dragone wrote:

>  Today in the morning I started the server again and I found about 400
>  e-mails in the sendmail queue.

	Right, but how many messages had sendmail already delivered by 
that point?  Did you check the logs?

>  Is there some way to know if mailman could send the rest of letters
>  (about 11.000 email addresses)?

	Sure.

>  I know by experience that Mailman doesn't deliver the 11k emails at
>  once but in groups of 50 addresses (more or less depending of server
>  response).

	Which isn't an issue.

>  Has mailman some kind of fault tolerance to resume an incomplete job?

	Sure.  Mailman puts all outgoing messages into it's own outgoing 
queue, before it delivers those messages to the MTA.  So, anything 
that has not yet been delivered to the MTA should still be in the 
outgoing queue from Mailman.  When Mailman restarts, those old 
messages sitting in the queue should be flushed out to the MTA.

	You should already be covered.  Just check your logs to see what 
messages (and how many) were delivered by Mailman to the MTA, and how 
many of those messages the MTA had already delivered.  I suspect you 
will be pleasantly surprised.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Thu Jun 22 06:58:37 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:58:37 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC5538E16B5@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Hi,

 

I'm a System Engineer of Avago Technologies and my company had just
changed their domain from "mys.agilent.com" to "mys.avagotech.net".

 

Because of this, it caused the Mailman not working properly.

 

I can still access the page http://mail.mys.avagotech.net
<http://mail.mys.avagotech.net/>  but however the mailing lists are not
shown. 

 

Furthermore, I can the "config.pck" is a binary file, thus I can't
change anything "mys.agilent.com" to "mys.avagotech.net" directly, else
it the daemon will not start properly. 

Also, the email of the subscribers are different when the domain is
changed, example "hai-seong_ong at agilent.com" to
"hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com"

 

May I know how to publicly-advertised the mailing lists and how to be
done when the domain name of a network is changed?

 

Please help, thanks.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Ong, Hai Seong

IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer

Research and Development

Navigation Products Division

Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd

Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824

Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com

 

 



From eduardo at si.ct.upc.edu  Thu Jun 22 08:29:58 2006
From: eduardo at si.ct.upc.edu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_N=FA=F1ez?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:29:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size
Message-ID: <449A38E6.2000104@si.ct.upc.edu>

Hello,

Can I fix messages's size for all lists?

I want that administrators can't modify this.

Thanks in advance.

-- 

 Eduardo N??ez Mart?nez

-------------------------------------------
 SICT - Serveis Inform?tics Campus Terrassa
 ?rea de Serveis B?sics
 Telf. 93.739.86.17
 -
 UPC - Universitat Polit?cnica de Catalunya
 Edifici Campus TR10 - UPC
 C/Colon N.2 TERRASSA 

-------------------------------------------



From reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com  Thu Jun 22 11:22:15 2006
From: reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com ( Reinhard Proessler)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:22:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: gb2312
Message-ID: <000601c695dd$59efda00$36ada8c0@europe.hanjin.com>

Hello 

Some users reports that emails from a Chinese customer 
do not reach the recipients from a list. The mails reach
our system, where stored in the archive folder, but not
forwarded to the list member.

I took a look to the mailman error log and found (only) this entry:

------------
Jun 21 16:15:46 2006 (29723) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
gb2312
Jun 21 16:15:46 2006 (29723) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 74, in process
    prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in
prefix_subject
    h.append(s, c)
  File
"/usr/src/build/717258-i386/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py",
line 285, in append
LookupError: unknown encoding: gb2312

Jun 21 16:15:46 2006 (29723) SHUNTING:
1150899346.6632681+54941ca3c4ce38e3aedfa9e82e393150283d78ff
------------

It seems to be that the reason is an unknown encoding: gb2312

I searched in the Internet and mailing-lists and found only a hint to
install
Chinesecodecs. But after applying these ChineseCodecs-1.1.0p to 
python site-packages with python installer the problem still exists.

Any suggestions, experiences or hints with this problem?

Kind Regards

RPr



From steele at agora-net.com  Thu Jun 22 15:45:08 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:45:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC5538E16B5@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
References: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC5538E16B5@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
Message-ID: <449A9EE4.4010106@agora-net.com>

Hai-Seong,

Try this:  for each list you have, execute the following command:  
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url /listname/.  Then, when that's all said and 
done, just for good measure, execute bin/check_perms.  See if that fixes 
things.  I had a similar problem recently and that fixed things for me.

Ryan

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> I'm a System Engineer of Avago Technologies and my company had just
> changed their domain from "mys.agilent.com" to "mys.avagotech.net".
>
>  
>
> Because of this, it caused the Mailman not working properly.
>
>  
>
> I can still access the page http://mail.mys.avagotech.net
> <http://mail.mys.avagotech.net/>  but however the mailing lists are not
> shown. 
>
>  
>
> Furthermore, I can the "config.pck" is a binary file, thus I can't
> change anything "mys.agilent.com" to "mys.avagotech.net" directly, else
> it the daemon will not start properly. 
>
> Also, the email of the subscribers are different when the domain is
> changed, example "hai-seong_ong at agilent.com" to
> "hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com"
>
>  
>
> May I know how to publicly-advertised the mailing lists and how to be
> done when the domain name of a network is changed?
>
>  
>
> Please help, thanks.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Best Regards,
>
>  
>
> Ong, Hai Seong
>
> IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer
>
> Research and Development
>
> Navigation Products Division
>
> Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd
>
> Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824
>
> Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steele%40agora-net.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   



From patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us  Thu Jun 22 15:58:59 2006
From: patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us (Patrick Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:58:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated
Message-ID: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A34@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>

After a server crash Mailman no longer starts up correctly on boot
(which I can live with for now) and I get the following error on some
messages.  The message stay in the data directory but don't show up in
the pending request GUI.  Some messages work, others don't.  Can someone
tell me what this means?  

Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) SHUNTING:
1150895602.261858+74296d31f3e250906fd5b2fb837e2555b866798e
Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) Uncaught runner exception: pickle data was
truncated
Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 155, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in
_dispose
    mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 113, in registerBounce
    member)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 64, in new
    db = _load()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 121, in _load
    return cPickle.load(fp)
UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 16:29:26 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:29:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
	gb2312
In-Reply-To: <000601c695dd$59efda00$36ada8c0@europe.hanjin.com>
References: <000601c695dd$59efda00$36ada8c0@europe.hanjin.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220729x5563d86cqb47d5fb86973170f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Reinhard Proessler <reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com> wrote:
> I searched in the Internet and mailing-lists and found only a hint to
> install
> Chinesecodecs. But after applying these ChineseCodecs-1.1.0p to
> python site-packages with python installer the problem still exists.

Did you restart mailman's queue runners after doing this?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 16:31:37 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:31:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <449A9EE4.4010106@agora-net.com>
References: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC5538E16B5@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
	<449A9EE4.4010106@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220731o19fbc625kf0f75bcb4864bd58@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
> Try this:  for each list you have, execute the following command:
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url /listname/.  Then, when that's all said and
> done, just for good measure, execute bin/check_perms.  See if that fixes
> things.  I had a similar problem recently and that fixed things for me.

Make sure you change the URL in your configuration, first. See:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

for more information.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mardin at comcast.net  Thu Jun 22 16:32:12 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:32:12 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
Message-ID: <062220061432.13382.449AA9EC0009312A00003446220699973502070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Hi,

We have a Mailman 2.1.5 server running on the Linux system. It is working well. Now we want to change the host IP address to another subnet address, but the hostname will not be changed. My question is:

Should we do somthing on Mailman 2.1.5 related to the changing of host IP address?

Thanks for your help,
Mardin


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 16:33:06 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:33:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated
In-Reply-To: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A34@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>
References: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A34@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220733k23b76149idbbbdfd789d24ffb@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Patrick Kennedy <patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us> wrote:
> the pending request GUI.  Some messages work, others don't.  Can someone
> tell me what this means?
>
> Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) SHUNTING:
> 1150895602.261858+74296d31f3e250906fd5b2fb837e2555b866798e
> Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) Uncaught runner exception: pickle data was
> truncated

It seems like this essentially means that that message is borked; best
rm it and be done. You might be able to get something useful out of it
by unpickling it by hand and looking, but no promises.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 16:34:18 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:34:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
In-Reply-To: <062220061432.13382.449AA9EC0009312A00003446220699973502070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
References: <062220061432.13382.449AA9EC0009312A00003446220699973502070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220734l4a4d0857pabc0440b1ed215f8@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, mardin at comcast.net <mardin at comcast.net> wrote:
> We have a Mailman 2.1.5 server running on the Linux system. It is working well. Now we want to change the host IP address to another subnet address, but the hostname will not be changed. My question is:
>
> Should we do somthing on Mailman 2.1.5 related to the changing of host IP address?

As long as everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level,
you should be fine. (Of course, there might be some problems if DNS
isn't switched over immediately.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 16:42:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:42:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated
In-Reply-To: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A42@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>
References: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A42@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220742w163c8c6eud1f769aa2a424da2@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Patrick Kennedy <patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us> wrote:
> Removed all of them and just sent some test messages and am getting the
> same thing.  How does one unpickle?  I did unshunt.

Unshunt doesn't remove them, it reinjects them into the queue. Was
this what you did? You want to actually 'rm' the various '.pck' files
in e.g., /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt/ (or, perhaps, they might not
have made it to /shunt/. You can 'mv' *all* of the queue files away,
and put them back in one at a time to see which one is breaking.)

I'm not sure of how to unpickle, someone else on the list should be
able to help, here. Which brings me to...

P.s., please CC the list on all replies. :)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us  Thu Jun 22 16:42:11 2006
From: patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us (Patrick Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:42:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated
Message-ID: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A46@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>

New messages do it as well.  I think.  The data directory is empty.
Where else could it be borked.  Should qfiles/shunt be emptied out?

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:33 AM
To: Patrick Kennedy
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated

On 6/22/06, Patrick Kennedy <patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us>
wrote:
> the pending request GUI.  Some messages work, others don't.  Can 
> someone tell me what this means?
>
> Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) SHUNTING:
> 1150895602.261858+74296d31f3e250906fd5b2fb837e2555b866798e
> Jun 22 09:53:02 2006 (1915) Uncaught runner exception: pickle data was

> truncated

It seems like this essentially means that that message is borked; best
rm it and be done. You might be able to get something useful out of it
by unpickling it by hand and looking, but no promises.

--
- Patrick Bogen




From mardin at comcast.net  Thu Jun 22 16:44:19 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:44:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
Message-ID: <062220061444.29733.449AACC300053BDD00007425220588644202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

> (Of course, there might be some problems if DNS isn't switched over immediately.)
Yes. We will switch DNS for this host right before changing IP address locally.


>As long as everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level, you should be fine. 
How to check everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level since some Mailman files are binary files?

Thanks,
Mardin



 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> On 6/22/06, mardin at comcast.net <mardin at comcast.net> wrote:
> > We have a Mailman 2.1.5 server running on the Linux system. It is working 
> well. Now we want to change the host IP address to another subnet address, but 
> the hostname will not be changed. My question is:
> >
> > Should we do somthing on Mailman 2.1.5 related to the changing of host IP 
> address?
> 
> As long as everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level,
> you should be fine. (Of course, there might be some problems if DNS
> isn't switched over immediately.)
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen




From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Thu Jun 22 17:03:07 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:03:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062016470604803736e586@msapiro>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060620164659.01e2a6d0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<PC17402006062016470604803736e586@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622104816.01d57838@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>

I found out the path to my mailing list archives. I first checked the link 
on the admin page ->go to list archives -> 2006-June.txt.gz File name. I 
then did a "find" on this file on our server. I found out that  my archives 
were in /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/newlist directory. I think by 
default in linux the archives are put here. Looks like I need NOT have put 
the following entry in my httpd.conf file:

Alias    /pipermail/    /usr/lib/mailmanarchives/public

Thank you all for your help.

UR.





At 07:47 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote:
>Uthra Rao wrote:
>
> >
> > From the admin web page of the list I am able to see the archives but if I
> >login to the system and cd to /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public I don't see
> >anything. I would like to know  in which directory it is archiving the
> >messages?
>
>
>All archives are created and maintained in the archives/private/
>structure only. In addition, lists with public archives have a symlink
>from archives/public/listname to archives/private/listname.
>
>Any archive can be accesses via something like
>http://example.com/mailman/private/listname/, but this requires
>authentication even if the archive is public.
>
>Public archives should be accessible via via something like
>http://example.com/pipermail/listname/ (determined by
>Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL) which requires
>something like
>
>Alias /pipermail/ /usr/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>
>in the web server configuration.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/urao%40pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us  Thu Jun 22 17:09:13 2006
From: patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us (Patrick Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:09:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated
Message-ID: <7D3C7BA908F69D4C9B651AF32C2582EB044E8A54@DOE_MAIL.edu.doe.state.vt.us>

Problem solved.  Emptying out the shunt directory was all that I needed.
Thank you for your help, I just inherited this box a week ago and
haven't had time to look at the documentation much.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:42 AM
To: Patrick Kennedy
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated

On 6/22/06, Patrick Kennedy <patrickkennedy at education.state.vt.us>
wrote:
> Removed all of them and just sent some test messages and am getting 
> the same thing.  How does one unpickle?  I did unshunt.

Unshunt doesn't remove them, it reinjects them into the queue. Was this
what you did? You want to actually 'rm' the various '.pck' files in
e.g., /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt/ (or, perhaps, they might not have
made it to /shunt/. You can 'mv' *all* of the queue files away, and put
them back in one at a time to see which one is breaking.)

I'm not sure of how to unpickle, someone else on the list should be able
to help, here. Which brings me to...

P.s., please CC the list on all replies. :)

--
- Patrick Bogen




From chris at pling.org.uk  Thu Jun 22 17:01:07 2006
From: chris at pling.org.uk (Chris Northwood)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:01:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn't appear to
	deliver mails?
Message-ID: <006801c6960c$b11a69b0$f51110ac@chiyo>

Hi,

I'm currently having a problem with Mailman 2.1.8 and Exim 4.62 on the
64-bit version of Fedora Core 5.

Exim is set up as per the Exim+Mailman FAQ on www.exim.org, and everything
appears to be working fine from Exim's point of view:

Jun 22 14:59:37 shinobu exim[15144]: 2006-06-22 14:59:37 1FtPib-0003wG-Eo <=
cjn503 at york.ac.uk H=mail-gw2.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.247] P=esmtp S=1062
id=005a01c69604$0c6bba20$f51110ac at chiyo
Jun 22 14:59:37 shinobu exim[15145]: 2006-06-22 14:59:37 1FtPib-0003wG-Eo =>
alcuinstycs <alcuinstycs at lists.dxhosting.co.uk> R=mailman_router
T=mailman_transport
Jun 22 14:59:37 shinobu exim[15145]: 2006-06-22 14:59:37 1FtPib-0003wG-Eo
Completed

Mailman also appears to receive the message (it appears in the archive), but
then the message appears to disappear, it doesn't get forwarded to any of
the list members, it doesn't appear in the mod queue, and none of the
logfiles show anything regarding that message at all.

I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious here. I can't see anything in
the list archives or in the documentation/FAQs that describes this
situation.

Any advice would be fantastic! :)

Thanks,

Chris Northwood.





From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Thu Jun 22 17:30:48 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:30:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding standard notes to all postings
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622112305.01f09d40@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>


In mailman mailing list is there a way to have standard "note" to appear in 
all the postings of a mailing list? I was not sure if in the admin page -> 
digest option -> "footer added to every digest" is the box where I need to 
enter my notes if I want it to show up in every postings of that mailing list?

If you know of another way doing this please let me know. I would really 
appreciate your help.

Thank You.

UR.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 17:39:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:39:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <44999996.6000602@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606220839420968b2c43212@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>All I did was follow the instructions in UPGRADE included with 2.1.8.  
>There is a Defaults.py at /path/to/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py with the 
>line OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes in it.  So, unless the instructions in 
>UPGRADE (basically, to run ./configure with the same options as the 
>previous install and then execute a make install) are flawed, there 
>shouldn't be any reason why I got that error.


The instructions should be OK.


Is mm_cfg.py in the '/path/to/mailman/' directory, and does it contain

from Defaults import *

and does the '/path/to/mailman/bin/' directory contain a paths.py file
with the line

prefix = '/path/to/mailman/'


>Nevertheless,  I seem to 
>get no errors in any of Mailman's logs or Exim's logs after I made that 
>change.  Not sure why it wouldn't pick up the line in Defaults.py....


The only thing I can think of is it's looking at the wrong file for
some reason (some related questions above).

Is you search (find / -name Defaults.py) do you find more than 1
Defaults.py?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stewart.rob at comcast.net  Thu Jun 22 17:42:21 2006
From: stewart.rob at comcast.net (Rob Stewart)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:42:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm messages not getting to any COMCAST.NET
	email addresses
Message-ID: <449ABA5D.3080201@comcast.net>

The Mailman Confirm message, either created due to an Admin Invite, or 
via a user join request
are not getting thru to any Comcast.net email addresses.

Messages sent to Comcast.net email also fail, so I guess  it is all 
messages.

Anyone have any ideas?
Rob Stewart
-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 17:43:54 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:43:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
In-Reply-To: <062220061444.29733.449AACC300053BDD00007425220588644202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
References: <062220061444.29733.449AACC300053BDD00007425220588644202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220843w33caa9ecqaf658e8628f04849@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, mardin at comcast.net <mardin at comcast.net> wrote:
> >As long as everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level, you should be
> >fine.
> How to check everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level since some
> Mailman files are binary files?

You should only need to check the Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py to make
sure you're using hostnames and not IP addresses. I don't think such
values are ever compiled into the binaries. (I could be wrong?)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 17:56:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:56:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm messages not getting to any COMCAST.NET
	email addresses
In-Reply-To: <449ABA5D.3080201@comcast.net>
References: <449ABA5D.3080201@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220856w47d6fa80k149acc8f52d612de@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Rob Stewart <stewart.rob at comcast.net> wrote:
> The Mailman Confirm message, either created due to an Admin Invite, or
> via a user join request
> are not getting thru to any Comcast.net email addresses.
>
> Messages sent to Comcast.net email also fail, so I guess  it is all
> messages.

Sounds like your list is blacklisted by Comcast?
Are there any bounces or DSNs?


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 18:12:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:12:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size
In-Reply-To: <449A38E6.2000104@si.ct.upc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060622091256098480673970@msapiro>

Eduardo N??ez wrote:
>
>Can I fix messages's size for all lists?
>
>I want that administrators can't modify this.


There are a couple of ways to accomplish this, but they involve
patching Mailman code. Without modifying code, there is no way to
prevent list admins from changing the limit.

You can selectively remove pages from the admin interface by removing
them from the ADMIN_CATEGORIES list, but you can't remove 'general'
even if you want to, because it is always the default page.

So, you would have to modify Mailman/Gui/General.py to remove the
max_message_size entry from the page or modify
Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py and replace mlist.max_message_size with for
example mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 18:22:34 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:22:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn't
	appear to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <006801c6960c$b11a69b0$f51110ac@chiyo>
References: <006801c6960c$b11a69b0$f51110ac@chiyo>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220922q72bf8caevcab15e66567dd324@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Chris Northwood <chris at pling.org.uk> wrote:
> I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious here. I can't see anything in
> the list archives or in the documentation/FAQs that describes this
> situation.
>
> Any advice would be fantastic! :)

The FAQ in question is pretty simplistic. In particular, it doesn't
seem to cover configuring Mailman's outgoing SMTP settings. Can you
double-check your configuration (and post it to the list)?

The relevent settings are:

     DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib

(these are the defaults, I believe, which ought to work as long as
Exim is configured to accept mail on SMTP from localhost.)
If these settings seem sane, something else is the problem.
Please see:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 18:29:31 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:29:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Mailman User options page]
In-Reply-To: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>
References: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220929h745e74adx30f115a1b01d5bda@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/16/06, Martin Dennett <md69 at md69.co.uk> wrote:
> Is there any way I can amend the HTML behind the page to force a field
> to be made mandatory? I'm thinking of the name field - once a user
> enters their options page, I would like them not to be able to leave it
> until they have filled their name in. I know it could be circumvented by
> just closing the browser window, but most of the users of my list
> wouldn't think of that ;-)

Also, some general web-design-ish comments on this idea... It probably
won't work. At best, it probably won't work well. You can fairly
trivially restrict them from continuing on if this is a linear
sequence of forms, but you likely can't keep them from, e.g., pointing
their web browser back to google when they're done.

YMMV.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 18:34:08 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:34:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOLVED: Re: Mailman and Qmail - Cannot connect
	via SMTP
In-Reply-To: <002901c69144$f6c55910$0100a8c0@endurance>
References: <PC1740200606152142180328d29a93da@msapiro>
	<002901c69144$f6c55910$0100a8c0@endurance>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606220934m26cf8e73ja8854956c58325df@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/16/06, Douglas G. Phillips <doug at sbscomp.net> wrote:
> Thanks for your reply Mark.  The problem was that the /etc/hosts file
> was set to 600 for the permissions.  Resetting to 755 worked great.
> Now I've run into another problem, but I've found plenty of info on
> that.

I guess this is a bit late, but FWIW, 0644 should be sufficient for /etc/hosts.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 18:35:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622104816.01d57838@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606220935530656450f5d45@msapiro>

Uthra Rao wrote:

>I found out the path to my mailing list archives. I first checked the link 
>on the admin page ->go to list archives -> 2006-June.txt.gz File name. I 
>then did a "find" on this file on our server. I found out that  my archives 
>were in /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/newlist directory. I think by 
>default in linux the archives are put here. Looks like I need NOT have put 
>the following entry in my httpd.conf file:
>
>Alias    /pipermail/    /usr/lib/mailmanarchives/public

If you want to be able to access the archives via the 'pipermail' URL
without authentication, you need that alias, but it needs to be in
your case

Alias    /pipermail/    /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/

The path /var/lib/mailman/ is not a 'Linux' default, but it may be
where some packager puts mutable data by default. This path is set by
the --with-var-prefix option to configure and defaults to the --prefix
setting which in turn defaults to /usr/local/mailman.

In other words, in a totally default Mailman installation, everything
is in /usr/local/mailman/ by default, but anyone who configures a
package can put things where they want.

Also, just to emphasize what I indicated previously, Actual archive
data is stored (in your case) in
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/newlist/*.
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/newlist is a symlink to
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/newlist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris at pling.org.uk  Thu Jun 22 18:51:21 2006
From: chris at pling.org.uk (Chris Northwood)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:51:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn't
	appear to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606220922q72bf8caevcab15e66567dd324@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c6961c$1761e4a0$f51110ac@chiyo>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
> Sent: 22 June 2006 17:23
> To: Chris Northwood
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 
> 5 doesn't appear to deliver mails?
> 
> On 6/22/06, Chris Northwood <chris at pling.org.uk> wrote:
> > I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious here. I can't see 
> > anything in the list archives or in the documentation/FAQs that 
> > describes this situation.
> >
> > Any advice would be fantastic! :)
> 
> The FAQ in question is pretty simplistic. In particular, it 
> doesn't seem to cover configuring Mailman's outgoing SMTP 
> settings. Can you double-check your configuration (and post 
> it to the list)?
> 
> The relevent settings are:
> 
>      DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>      SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>      SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib

These settings weren't set in mm_cfg.py, but in Defaults.py. I've put them
in mm_cfg.py too, but no luck.
 
> (these are the defaults, I believe, which ought to work as 
> long as Exim is configured to accept mail on SMTP from 
> localhost.) If these settings seem sane, something else is 
> the problem.
> Please see:
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

I've already seen that page, and other than flagging up some incorrect
permissions, nothing solved it.

I live in the "If you get no posts but you do get some notifications" camp,
so Mailman must be communicating with Exim somehow.

I'm at a total loss as to what's going wrong, especially as the logs are
showing nothing, but Exim is saying "completed".

> 
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
> 

Thanks again,

Chris Northwood.




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 19:22:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:22:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
	gb2312
In-Reply-To: <000601c695dd$59efda00$36ada8c0@europe.hanjin.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221022120812b85a3158@msapiro>

Reinhard Proessler wrote:
>
>Some users reports that emails from a Chinese customer 
>do not reach the recipients from a list. The mails reach
>our system, where stored in the archive folder, but not
>forwarded to the list member.
>
>I took a look to the mailman error log and found (only) this entry:
>
<snip>
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in
>prefix_subject
>    h.append(s, c)
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/717258-i386/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py",
>line 285, in append
>LookupError: unknown encoding: gb2312
>
>Jun 21 16:15:46 2006 (29723) SHUNTING:
>1150899346.6632681+54941ca3c4ce38e3aedfa9e82e393150283d78ff
>------------
>
>It seems to be that the reason is an unknown encoding: gb2312
>
>I searched in the Internet and mailing-lists and found only a hint to
>install
>Chinesecodecs. But after applying these ChineseCodecs-1.1.0p to 
>python site-packages with python installer the problem still exists.
>
>Any suggestions, experiences or hints with this problem?


Try the following in interactive python:

>>> x = unicode('abcde', 'gb2312')
>>> y = x.encode('gb2312')

If either of these throws an exception, the codecs are not properly
installed.

If the codecs are installed OK, it is probably necessary to add

import chinesecn

somewhere near the end of the various Mailman paths.py files (following
the line 'sys.path.append(sitedir)'.

These paths.py files are found in bin/, cron/, scripts/ and tests/
which in your case would seem to be in
/usr/src/build/717258-i386/install/var/mailman/

Then you need to restart Mailman (bin/mailmanctl restart) and then you
can try bin/unshunt to reprocess the shunted messages, but first y
should check qfiles/shunt/ to see if there might be old files there
that you don't want to reprocess (you can examine them with
bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb). Any unwanted files can just be deleted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steele at agora-net.com  Thu Jun 22 19:22:57 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:22:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606220839420968b2c43212@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606220839420968b2c43212@msapiro>
Message-ID: <449AD1F1.2060207@agora-net.com>

Yes, it contains the "from Defaults import *" line.

Yes, there is a paths.py with the correct prefix.

There are two Default.py's....one in an abandoned installation of 
another version.  I inherited this box not long ago, but I've checked to 
make sure the init.d script looks for it in the proper prefix...I can't 
imagine why it would try to find the other.  The current installation is 
/home/mailman  ...the apparently abandoned installation (maybe the 
previous sysadmin tried this?) is in /usr/local/mailman.  However, as I 
stated, there is absolutely no reference in the current working 
installation to the /usr/local/mailman directory.  If there was, I 
highly doubt the qrunner would work properly.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in 
advance.

Best,
Ryan

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> All I did was follow the instructions in UPGRADE included with 2.1.8.  
>> There is a Defaults.py at /path/to/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py with the 
>> line OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes in it.  So, unless the instructions in 
>> UPGRADE (basically, to run ./configure with the same options as the 
>> previous install and then execute a make install) are flawed, there 
>> shouldn't be any reason why I got that error.
>>     
>
>
> The instructions should be OK.
>
>
> Is mm_cfg.py in the '/path/to/mailman/' directory, and does it contain
>
> from Defaults import *
>
> and does the '/path/to/mailman/bin/' directory contain a paths.py file
> with the line
>
> prefix = '/path/to/mailman/'
>
>
>   
>> Nevertheless,  I seem to 
>> get no errors in any of Mailman's logs or Exim's logs after I made that 
>> change.  Not sure why it wouldn't pick up the line in Defaults.py....
>>     
>
>
> The only thing I can think of is it's looking at the wrong file for
> some reason (some related questions above).
>
> Is you search (find / -name Defaults.py) do you find more than 1
> Defaults.py?
>
>   



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 19:31:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:31:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn'tappear
	to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <007a01c6961c$1761e4a0$f51110ac@chiyo>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221031370968b85a320d@msapiro>

Chris Northwood wrote:
>
>These settings weren't set in mm_cfg.py, but in Defaults.py. I've put them
>in mm_cfg.py too, but no luck.


If you put the same setting from Defaults.py into mm_cfg.py, it doesn't
make any difference as you are just redefing something with the same
value it already had.

 
>I'm at a total loss as to what's going wrong, especially as the logs are
>showing nothing, but Exim is saying "completed".


The posts get to Mailman and past any moderation or other holds because
they're in the archive. You need to look in the Mailman log files
error, smtp and smtp-failure for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 19:36:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:36:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the configure script.
In-Reply-To: <449AD1F1.2060207@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221036410781b85a3156@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>There are two Default.py's....one in an abandoned installation of 
>another version.  I inherited this box not long ago, but I've checked to 
>make sure the init.d script looks for it in the proper prefix...I can't 
>imagine why it would try to find the other.


Check the crontab entries too.


>The current installation is 
>/home/mailman  ...the apparently abandoned installation (maybe the 
>previous sysadmin tried this?) is in /usr/local/mailman.  However, as I 
>stated, there is absolutely no reference in the current working 
>installation to the /usr/local/mailman directory.  If there was, I 
>highly doubt the qrunner would work properly.  Any thoughts?


mv /usr/local/mailman /usr/local/abandoned-mailman

and restart Mailman and see what happens.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 19:42:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:42:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding standard notes to all postings
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622112305.01f09d40@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221042350375b85a2fba@msapiro>

Uthra Rao wrote:
>
>In mailman mailing list is there a way to have standard "note" to appear in 
>all the postings of a mailing list? I was not sure if in the admin page -> 
>digest option -> "footer added to every digest" is the box where I need to 
>enter my notes if I want it to show up in every postings of that mailing list?

That and the corresponding "Header added to every digest" is the place
to add these things to digests. The corresponding places on Non-digest
options are where you add them for individual (non-digest) messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 19:46:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:46:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn'tappear
	to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <008001c69622$7aa9f150$f51110ac@chiyo>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221046380718b85a3114@msapiro>

Chris Northwood
>
>I've looked in these files, but they're not giving me any information
>whatsoever, just errors occuring at totally different times and unrelated to
>the mail message. Most of the errors are due to a misconfiguration when
>setting up my initial mail list.
>
>And just so you don't think I'm being thick, yes, Mailman is running.


Well, posts are getting to the archive so IncomingRunner and ArchRunner
must be running, but what about OutgoingRunner?

The messages must still be queued in Mailman somewhere. What's in the
queues? (qfiles/*).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 19:54:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:54:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm messages not getting to any
	COMCAST.NETemail addresses
In-Reply-To: <449ABA5D.3080201@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221054410718b85a3117@msapiro>

Rob Stewart wrote:
>
>The Mailman Confirm message, either created due to an Admin Invite, or 
>via a user join request
>are not getting thru to any Comcast.net email addresses.
>
>Messages sent to Comcast.net email also fail, so I guess  it is all 
>messages.


Comcast is blocking all mail from your IP. This is an issue you or more
likely your (potential) users will have to take up with Comcast. I
have lot's of Comcast subscribers who get their mail from Mailman, so
it is related to your server, not to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ricardo at tdwg.org  Thu Jun 22 19:58:29 2006
From: ricardo at tdwg.org (Ricardo Scachetti Pereira)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:58:29 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Information about Mailman v2.1.7.cp2
Message-ID: <449ADA45.6050108@tdwg.org>

    Hi all,

    I'm about to migrate a number of lists from one server (a thirdy 
party hosting service) to another (my own server) sometime soon. The 
hosting server runs Mailman 2.1.7.cp2. I plan on installing Mailman 
2.1.8 and then migrating the lists to my server.

    I searched the announcements lists, Mailman site and Google but I 
couldn't find information about the 2.1.7.cp2 release. Where can I find 
notes about that release? And what does cp2 stand for?

    Thanks in advance.

    Regards,

Ricardo



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 20:01:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:01:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn't
	appear to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <007a01c6961c$1761e4a0$f51110ac@chiyo>
References: <6fbe3da00606220922q72bf8caevcab15e66567dd324@mail.gmail.com>
	<007a01c6961c$1761e4a0$f51110ac@chiyo>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606221101m4a2fff6ak8500a3d2e65c47@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Chris Northwood <chris at pling.org.uk> wrote:
> I live in the "If you get no posts but you do get some notifications" camp,
> so Mailman must be communicating with Exim somehow.
>
> I'm at a total loss as to what's going wrong, especially as the logs are
> showing nothing, but Exim is saying "completed".

Is delivery enabled on all your users? What do the Mailman logs say?
(How many deliveries attempted? How many does it think were
successful?)

Could this be filtering, somewhere? (Your end, on the destination's end?)
-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 20:03:03 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:03:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Mailman User options page]
In-Reply-To: <449AD96D.6090608@gmail.com>
References: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>
	<6fbe3da00606220929h745e74adx30f115a1b01d5bda@mail.gmail.com>
	<449AD96D.6090608@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606221103i7c3d0868v2935d6af8dff52b2@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cheers Patrick - looks like it's a no-go then :-(
>
> Martin

Well, you can theoretically require them to give all the pertinent
info (Name, email, etc.) in one fell swoop (and you can then do
verification on the name before doing anything at all with the
resquest), but I don't know how easy this would be to implement in the
context of Mailman's CGI stuff.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 20:06:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Information about Mailman v2.1.7.cp2
In-Reply-To: <449ADA45.6050108@tdwg.org>
References: <449ADA45.6050108@tdwg.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606221106h16721c7fv69af67b1211b6db2@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Ricardo Scachetti Pereira <ricardo at tdwg.org> wrote:
>     I searched the announcements lists, Mailman site and Google but I
> couldn't find information about the 2.1.7.cp2 release. Where can I find
> notes about that release? And what does cp2 stand for?

.cp2 probably means it's a cPanel version. Which means a lot of us
will refuse to help. ;) (There's no telling what cPanel has done to
it.) That said, the upgrade shouldn't be too problematic.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 20:11:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:11:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and fault tolerance
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0bfc96a1201@[10.0.1.7]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221111170906b85a31bb@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 9:25 PM -0500 6/21/06, Antonio Dragone wrote:
>
>>  Has mailman some kind of fault tolerance to resume an incomplete job?
>
>	Sure.  Mailman puts all outgoing messages into it's own outgoing 
>queue, before it delivers those messages to the MTA.  So, anything 
>that has not yet been delivered to the MTA should still be in the 
>outgoing queue from Mailman.  When Mailman restarts, those old 
>messages sitting in the queue should be flushed out to the MTA.


It depends on how the server died and whether Mailman (specifically
OutgoingRunner) was sent a SIGTERM and given a chance to wrapup.

The outgoing message (containing a recipient list in its metadata) is
placed in Mailman's 'out' queue where it is picked up by
OutgoingRunner. At this point it is deleted from the out queue and
exists only in memory. OutgoingRunner calls the DELIVERY_MODULE
(normally SMTPDirect) to actually pass the message to the outgoing
MTA. If the 'plug is pulled' on this process, the current SMTP
transaction is lost as are the subsequent transactions on behalf of
'the rest' of the recipients.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 20:29:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:29:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Information about Mailman v2.1.7.cp2
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606221106h16721c7fv69af67b1211b6db2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221129240265f5fa6f41@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/22/06, Ricardo Scachetti Pereira <ricardo at tdwg.org> wrote:
>>     I searched the announcements lists, Mailman site and Google but I
>> couldn't find information about the 2.1.7.cp2 release. Where can I find
>> notes about that release? And what does cp2 stand for?
>
>.cp2 probably means it's a cPanel version. Which means a lot of us
>will refuse to help. ;) (There's no telling what cPanel has done to
>it.) That said, the upgrade shouldn't be too problematic.

Patrick is correct. Our releases are major.minor.micro (e.g 2.1.7) with
the possible addition of an alpha/beta/release-candidate (e.g 2.1.7a1,
2.1.7b1, 2.1.7rc1). Any '-' or '.' added after the micro version is a
packager's designation and we generally have no specific information
about it.

That said, moving lists from one installation to another is generally
fairly simple. A rough outline is

1) move the lists/listname/config.pck file.
2a) move the archives/private/listname/ directory
2b) move the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file
3) run fix_url on the list (bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname)
4) If desired because of absolute URLs on some archive pages or other
reasons, rebuild archives with bin/arch --wipe listname

If you are going to do step 4), you can skip step 2a)

If as seems likely, .cp2 is a cPanel mailman, this will be complicated
by the fact the cPanel list names are of the form 'list_domain' with
the '_domain' part somewhat hidden. This may require some path name
translation in the above outline. Also, who knows what non-standard
list attributes may have been added in the package which might cause
simply moving the config.pck to fail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 21:23:07 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:23:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Mailman User options page]
In-Reply-To: <449AECF4.5080205@gmail.com>
References: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>
	<6fbe3da00606220929h745e74adx30f115a1b01d5bda@mail.gmail.com>
	<449AD96D.6090608@gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00606221103i7c3d0868v2935d6af8dff52b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<449AECF4.5080205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606221223o130fc47btd37414ca1ade8448@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem we had is that we moved server (and host) and had to fight
> to get the mailing lists from our previous host. All we were given were
> the email addresses which we uploaded "en-bloc" but the names weren't
> provided. With over 2000 members, it's hard to get them to enter their
> name, hence the request to make the field mandatory. We knew that they
> would disable their mail when they go away on holiday, for example, and
> wanted to force the change at that point.

You could temporarily restrict access to anything except a
custom-build re-enable page, and force them to do it this way. (This
means turning off the normal mailman web interface for this purpose,
as well as the various -request pages, in case the users get tricky.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mardin at comcast.net  Thu Jun 22 21:40:13 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:40:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
Message-ID: <062220061940.473.449AF21D0002C312000001D9220700095302070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Patrick,

> You should only need to check the Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py to make
> sure you're using hostnames and not IP addresses.

I found our hostnames in Defaults.py:
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'our_hostname'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'our_hostname'

I didn't find any hostnames in mm_cfg.py file.

I also didn't find our host IP address in both Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py.

So it looked like we were using hostnames and not IP addresses.

By the way, is it normal not find any hostnames in the mm_cfg.py file?

Thanks for your help!
Mardin


 
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> On 6/22/06, mardin at comcast.net <mardin at comcast.net> wrote:
> > >As long as everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level, you 
> should be
> > >fine.
> > How to check everything in Mailman was configured on the hostname level since 
> some
> > Mailman files are binary files?
> 
> You should only need to check the Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py to make
> sure you're using hostnames and not IP addresses. I don't think such
> values are ever compiled into the binaries. (I could be wrong?)
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen




From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Thu Jun 22 21:47:42 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:47:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606220935530656450f5d45@msapiro>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622104816.01d57838@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<PC1740200606220935530656450f5d45@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622154349.01dc7780@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>


I added the correct path to the pipermail alias in the httpd.conf file and 
restarted apache. I can now access the archive by typing 
http://hostname/pipermail/newlist.

Thank you very much for your help.

UR.


At 12:35 PM 6/22/2006, you wrote:
>Uthra Rao wrote:
>
> >I found out the path to my mailing list archives. I first checked the link
> >on the admin page ->go to list archives -> 2006-June.txt.gz File name. I
> >then did a "find" on this file on our server. I found out that  my archives
> >were in /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/newlist directory. I think by
> >default in linux the archives are put here. Looks like I need NOT have put
> >the following entry in my httpd.conf file:
> >
> >Alias    /pipermail/    /usr/lib/mailmanarchives/public
>
>If you want to be able to access the archives via the 'pipermail' URL
>without authentication, you need that alias, but it needs to be in
>your case
>
>Alias    /pipermail/    /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>
>The path /var/lib/mailman/ is not a 'Linux' default, but it may be
>where some packager puts mutable data by default. This path is set by
>the --with-var-prefix option to configure and defaults to the --prefix
>setting which in turn defaults to /usr/local/mailman.
>
>In other words, in a totally default Mailman installation, everything
>is in /usr/local/mailman/ by default, but anyone who configures a
>package can put things where they want.
>
>Also, just to emphasize what I indicated previously, Actual archive
>data is stored (in your case) in
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/newlist/*.
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/newlist is a symlink to
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/newlist.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 22:00:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:00:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
In-Reply-To: <062220061940.473.449AF21D0002C312000001D9220700095302070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062213004505004c7d9801@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>By the way, is it normal not find any hostnames in the mm_cfg.py file?

Yes, if Mailman was configured with the correct names so that the
assignments in Defaults.py are correct.

In this case, they would only be needed in add_virtualhost() lines in
mm_cfg.py to add additional virtual hosts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Thu Jun 22 22:00:42 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:00:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding standard notes to all postings
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221042350375b85a2fba@msapiro>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622112305.01f09d40@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<PC1740200606221042350375b85a2fba@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060622154756.01e9b708@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>


I tested both "Header added to mail sent to regular list members" and 
"footer added to mail sent to regular list members". It works great!

Thank You.


At 01:42 PM 6/22/2006, you wrote:
>Uthra Rao wrote:
> >
> >In mailman mailing list is there a way to have standard "note" to appear in
> >all the postings of a mailing list? I was not sure if in the admin page ->
> >digest option -> "footer added to every digest" is the box where I need to
> >enter my notes if I want it to show up in every postings of that mailing 
> list?
>
>That and the corresponding "Header added to every digest" is the place
>to add these things to digests. The corresponding places on Non-digest
>options are where you add them for individual (non-digest) messages.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/urao%40pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From chris at pling.org.uk  Thu Jun 22 22:03:31 2006
From: chris at pling.org.uk (Chris Northwood)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:03:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn'tappear
	to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221046380718b85a3114@msapiro>
Message-ID: <008c01c69636$ef4ba3f0$f51110ac@chiyo>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: 22 June 2006 18:47
> To: Chris Northwood; 'Mark Sapiro'
> Cc: Mailman Users
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 
> 5 doesn'tappear to deliver mails?
> 
> Chris Northwood
> >
> >I've looked in these files, but they're not giving me any 
> information 
> >whatsoever, just errors occuring at totally different times and 
> >unrelated to the mail message. Most of the errors are due to a 
> >misconfiguration when setting up my initial mail list.
> >
> >And just so you don't think I'm being thick, yes, Mailman is running.
> 
> 
> Well, posts are getting to the archive so IncomingRunner and 
> ArchRunner must be running, but what about OutgoingRunner?

$ ps aux | grep qrunner
mailman  19022  0.0  1.6 106984  8324 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19023  0.0  1.1 104828  5880 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19024  0.0  1.2 104776  6268 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19025  0.0  1.4 105112  7136 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19026  0.0  1.5 104788  7568 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19027  0.0  1.5 104988  7696 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19028  0.0  1.3 104820  6624 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  19029  0.0  1.2 104824  6332 ?        S    15:29   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

Which seems to be everything
 
> The messages must still be queued in Mailman somewhere. 
> What's in the queues? (qfiles/*).

There appears to be absolutely nothing.

> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

Chris Northwood.




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 22 22:40:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:40:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn'tappear
	to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <008c01c69636$ef4ba3f0$f51110ac@chiyo>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606221340170546754ede93@msapiro>

Chris Northwood wrote:
>
>$ ps aux | grep qrunner
>mailman  19022  0.0  1.6 106984  8324 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19023  0.0  1.1 104828  5880 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19024  0.0  1.2 104776  6268 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19025  0.0  1.4 105112  7136 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19026  0.0  1.5 104788  7568 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19027  0.0  1.5 104988  7696 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19028  0.0  1.3 104820  6624 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  19029  0.0  1.2 104824  6332 ?        S    15:29   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>
>Which seems to be everything
> 
>> The messages must still be queued in Mailman somewhere. 
>> What's in the queues? (qfiles/*).
>
>There appears to be absolutely nothing.


Yes, that's all the runners. So let me confirm:

You send a post.
It gets archived.
It does not get sent to list members.
All the qfiles/*/ directories are empty.
There's nothing relevant in Mailman's error, smtp or smtp-failure logs.

If this is correct, and if you are looking at the correct logs, the
only thing that can cause this are there are no list members who are
eligible to receive this post, because

They are digest subscribers,
Those that aren't are the poster with 'not metoo' checked or are direct
To: or Cc: recipients with 'no dups' checked or are not subscribed to
the Topic that this post matches or haven't selected 'receive messages
that do not match any topic'.

Other possibilities are that you are mistaken about nothing relevant in
the logs or you are not looking at the logs that Mailman is actually
writing (check LOG_DIR in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py)

If the message reached the archive and if DELIVERY_MODULE is
'SMTPDirect' (the default) and if the default SMTP_LOG_* settings
haven't been overridden, and if the message is not in the 'out' queue,
there has to be an entry in the post log and one in the smtp log
unless the message had no recepients.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mardin at comcast.net  Thu Jun 22 23:13:59 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:13:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change host IP address
Message-ID: <062220062113.393.449B081700026CBA00000189220588911602070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Thanks for your help!

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >By the way, is it normal not find any hostnames in the mm_cfg.py file?
> 
> Yes, if Mailman was configured with the correct names so that the
> assignments in Defaults.py are correct.
> 
> In this case, they would only be needed in add_virtualhost() lines in
> mm_cfg.py to add additional virtual hosts.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 22 23:52:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:52:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Mailman User options page]
In-Reply-To: <449AF0B9.6040508@gmail.com>
References: <449306B2.5040606@md69.co.uk>
	<6fbe3da00606220929h745e74adx30f115a1b01d5bda@mail.gmail.com>
	<449AD96D.6090608@gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00606221103i7c3d0868v2935d6af8dff52b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<449AECF4.5080205@gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00606221223o130fc47btd37414ca1ade8448@mail.gmail.com>
	<449AF0B9.6040508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606221452l7747d089qf4fa7b7daa85011@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/22/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I can't get to that part of the interface. I don't have
> direct server access :-(

You could make your own page anyway, and hope that your users aren't
smart enough to figure it out. Assumably, they're not maliciously
concealing their names, it's just laziness.

P.S., please CC the list on all replies

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Jun 23 00:19:34 2006
From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:19:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060622091256098480673970@msapiro>
References: <449A38E6.2000104@si.ct.upc.edu>
	<PC174020060622091256098480673970@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060622221934.GA14328@ultra.le.ac.uk>

On Thu, Jun 22, 2006 at 09:12:56AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Eduardo N??ez wrote:
> >Can I fix messages's size for all lists?
> >
> >I want that administrators can't modify this.

> There are a couple of ways to accomplish this, but they involve
> patching Mailman code. Without modifying code, there is no way to
> prevent list admins from changing the limit.

My patch would allow you to do this. It's this one:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1164457&group_id=103&atid=300103

(sf.net patch 1164457)

After applying that you should be able to just add:

SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS = ['max_message_size']

to mm_cfg.py, and it will remove the option from the admin
interface.

The patch is for 2.1.5; I haven't tested it against a newer
version yet, so hopefully it will apply OK.

Hope that helps,

Matthew


-- 
Matthew Newton <mcn4 at le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom


From chris at pling.org.uk  Fri Jun 23 00:38:50 2006
From: chris at pling.org.uk (Chris Northwood)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:38:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn't
	appear to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221340170546754ede93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <009e01c6964c$a285dac0$f51110ac@chiyo>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: 22 June 2006 21:40
> To: Chris Northwood
> Cc: 'Mailman Users'
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 
> 5 doesn't appear to deliver mails?
> 
> *snip*
> 
> 
> Yes, that's all the runners. So let me confirm:
> 
> You send a post.
> It gets archived.
> It does not get sent to list members.
> All the qfiles/*/ directories are empty.
> There's nothing relevant in Mailman's error, smtp or 
> smtp-failure logs.
> 
> If this is correct, and if you are looking at the correct 
> logs, the only thing that can cause this are there are no 
> list members who are eligible to receive this post, because
> 
> They are digest subscribers,
> Those that aren't are the poster with 'not metoo' checked or 
> are direct
> To: or Cc: recipients with 'no dups' checked or are not 
> subscribed to the Topic that this post matches or haven't 
> selected 'receive messages that do not match any topic'.
> 
> Other possibilities are that you are mistaken about nothing 
> relevant in the logs or you are not looking at the logs that 
> Mailman is actually writing (check LOG_DIR in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py)
> 
> If the message reached the archive and if DELIVERY_MODULE is 
> 'SMTPDirect' (the default) and if the default SMTP_LOG_* 
> settings haven't been overridden, and if the message is not 
> in the 'out' queue, there has to be an entry in the post log 
> and one in the smtp log unless the message had no recepients.

Heh, I knew it'd be something simple. Instead of disabling the ability for
people to be able to sign up to digests, I disabled the ability to be able
to sign up to non-digests, hence everyone was put on digest mode.

Ah well, cheers for the help everyone!

> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

Chris Northwood.




From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun 23 04:10:27 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:10:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim on Fedora Core 5 doesn't
 appear to deliver mails?
In-Reply-To: <007a01c6961c$1761e4a0$f51110ac@chiyo>
Message-ID: <C0C09BA3.D39B%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/22/06 9:51 AM, "Chris Northwood" <chris at pling.org.uk> wrote:

> I'm at a total loss as to what's going wrong, especially as the logs are
> showing nothing, but Exim is saying "completed".

You've solved the problem, and the "completed" wasn't related to the
problem, so this is just a note.

Exim's "completed" doesn't necessarily mean  "I've delivered this."  It
means "I've done everything I'm ever going to do with this."

  --John




From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun 23 04:20:46 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:20:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and fault tolerance
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221111170906b85a31bb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0C09E0E.D39E%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/22/06 11:11 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> It depends on how the server died and whether Mailman (specifically
> OutgoingRunner) was sent a SIGTERM and given a chance to wrapup.
> 
> The outgoing message (containing a recipient list in its metadata) is
> placed in Mailman's 'out' queue where it is picked up by
> OutgoingRunner. At this point it is deleted from the out queue and
> exists only in memory. OutgoingRunner calls the DELIVERY_MODULE
> (normally SMTPDirect) to actually pass the message to the outgoing
> MTA. If the 'plug is pulled' on this process, the current SMTP
> transaction is lost as are the subsequent transactions on behalf of
> 'the rest' of the recipients.

Hmmm.   That processing is contrary to the spirit of RFC 822 and 2822, which
require MTAs (which Mailman is not, so it doesn't apply) to always have a
message copy on non-volatile storage (usually disk) until the next step in
the chain has signaled OK going out, and to not signal OK until the message
is in non-volatile storage coming in.

This seems to be a hole which shouldn't and needn't exist.

(That RFC requirement is one of the main reasons that MTA performance is so
often disk limited, not processor limited, although the need for incessant
filtering caused by spammers and virus folks and phishers is changing
that--but even so processors are gaining faster than disks are.)

  --John




From stewart.rob at comcast.net  Fri Jun 23 05:55:56 2006
From: stewart.rob at comcast.net (Rob Stewart)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:55:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm messages not getting to any COMCAST.NET
 email addresses
Message-ID: <449B664C.6080204@comcast.net>

Well,

It turns out the my address was blacklisted at Comcast.
Got it un-blacklisted and now I get messages.

Seems to be working now.
Thanks.

Rob Stewart


-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/373 - Release Date: 6/22/2006

From reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com  Fri Jun 23 08:31:47 2006
From: reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com ( Reinhard Proessler)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:31:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
	gb2312
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606220729x5563d86cqb47d5fb86973170f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c6968e$b3b1e360$36ada8c0@europe.hanjin.com>

 
Thanks for you answer.

Yes, I did. I restarted the whole mail system including mailman.

Regards
RPr

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:29 PM
To: Reinhard Proessler
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
gb2312

On 6/22/06, Reinhard Proessler <reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com> wrote:
> I searched in the Internet and mailing-lists and found only a hint to 
> install Chinesecodecs. But after applying these ChineseCodecs-1.1.0p 
> to python site-packages with python installer the problem still 
> exists.

Did you restart mailman's queue runners after doing this?

--
- Patrick Bogen



From reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com  Fri Jun 23 08:59:02 2006
From: reinhard.proessler at de.hanjin.com ( Reinhard Proessler)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:59:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
	gb2312
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221022120812b85a3158@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000501c69692$82be9ec0$36ada8c0@europe.hanjin.com>

Thanks, 

added the line to the path.py in running system.

this seems to be the solution in my case.
First test was successful.

I'll patch sources asap.

Kind Regards

RPr

[...] 
Try the following in interactive python:

>>> x = unicode('abcde', 'gb2312')
>>> y = x.encode('gb2312')

If either of these throws an exception, the codecs are not properly
installed.

If the codecs are installed OK, it is probably necessary to add

import chinesecn

somewhere near the end of the various Mailman paths.py files (following the
line 'sys.path.append(sitedir)'.
[...]



From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Fri Jun 23 11:43:10 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:43:10 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <449A9EE4.4010106@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC553914740@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Hi Ryan,

When I am in the bin direcocotry, I use the command withlist -l -r
fix_url /listname/, I notice there are 3 fix_url in the bin directory.
May I know if the "fix_url" is either
fix_url.py/fix_url.pyc/fix_url.pyo?

And also, the listname you mean here is the mailing list, right? For
example, (listname = lists/dragonite) which inside dragonite contains
config.pck. Am I right?


I have tried to use the command "withlist -l -r fix_url
../lists/dragonite" and then it come out with the error as below;

Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.py()...
Traceback (most recent call last):
	File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 275, in ?
	Main()
File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 250, in main
	Func = getattr(mod, callable)
Attribute error: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'

However when I run the command "check_perms", there is no problems
found.

Then I restart the daemon and surf the http://mail.mys.avagotech.net but
however the mailing lists are not shown.

Please advise, thanks.


Best Regards,
 
Ong, Hai Seong
IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer
Research and Development
Navigation Products Division
Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd
Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824
Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Steele [mailto:steele at agora-net.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:45 PM
To: ONG,HAI-SEONG
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman

Hai-Seong,

Try this:  for each list you have, execute the following command:  
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url /listname/.  Then, when that's all said and 
done, just for good measure, execute bin/check_perms.  See if that fixes

things.  I had a similar problem recently and that fixed things for me.

Ryan

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> I'm a System Engineer of Avago Technologies and my company had just
> changed their domain from "mys.agilent.com" to "mys.avagotech.net".
>
>  
>
> Because of this, it caused the Mailman not working properly.
>
>  
>
> I can still access the page http://mail.mys.avagotech.net
> <http://mail.mys.avagotech.net/>  but however the mailing lists are
not
> shown. 
>
>  
>
> Furthermore, I can the "config.pck" is a binary file, thus I can't
> change anything "mys.agilent.com" to "mys.avagotech.net" directly,
else
> it the daemon will not start properly. 
>
> Also, the email of the subscribers are different when the domain is
> changed, example "hai-seong_ong at agilent.com" to
> "hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com"
>
>  
>
> May I know how to publicly-advertised the mailing lists and how to be
> done when the domain name of a network is changed?
>
>  
>
> Please help, thanks.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Best Regards,
>
>  
>
> Ong, Hai Seong
>
> IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer
>
> Research and Development
>
> Navigation Products Division
>
> Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd
>
> Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824
>
> Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steele%40agora-net.
com
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   



From eduardo at si.ct.upc.edu  Fri Jun 23 12:57:31 2006
From: eduardo at si.ct.upc.edu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_N=FA=F1ez?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:57:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size
In-Reply-To: <20060622221934.GA14328@ultra.le.ac.uk>
References: <449A38E6.2000104@si.ct.upc.edu>
	<PC174020060622091256098480673970@msapiro>
	<20060622221934.GA14328@ultra.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <449BC91B.1050201@si.ct.upc.edu>

Thanks for all.

The patch works fine with 2.1.7 version.

Edu




Matthew Newton wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2006 at 09:12:56AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> Eduardo N??ez wrote:
>>     
>>> Can I fix messages's size for all lists?
>>>
>>> I want that administrators can't modify this.
>>>       
>
>   
>> There are a couple of ways to accomplish this, but they involve
>> patching Mailman code. Without modifying code, there is no way to
>> prevent list admins from changing the limit.
>>     
>
> My patch would allow you to do this. It's this one:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1164457&group_id=103&atid=300103
>
> (sf.net patch 1164457)
>
> After applying that you should be able to just add:
>
> SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS = ['max_message_size']
>
> to mm_cfg.py, and it will remove the option from the admin
> interface.
>
> The patch is for 2.1.5; I haven't tested it against a newer
> version yet, so hopefully it will apply OK.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Matthew
>
>
>   



From jdereus at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 14:23:21 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:23:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0606230523m36d4f16k6bbbf6b05efe1a02@mail.gmail.com>

i have recently upgraded to version 2.1.8.  messages are not being archived
for the month of june.  archiving options are set properly in the
interface.  the archive.mbox is there but when i run the arch script, it
says that the html is being formatted but still no entry for june is
visible.  the messages are being posted properly and go through to the
list.  any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Jeff D


From tony.dragone at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 16:14:31 2006
From: tony.dragone at gmail.com (Antonio Dragone)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:14:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and fault tolerance
In-Reply-To: <C0C09E0E.D39E%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <PC1740200606221111170906b85a31bb@msapiro>
	<C0C09E0E.D39E%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <8c78f1bb0606230714m1b39b76ctb9ca373c99b2d02b@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for the answers!
Following Brad's answer, I looked into the mailman logs and found?
11045 mails sent! Yeah! Job was resumed (and completed) by Mailman.
Sendmail logs are a little different? it looks like about 50 of the
messages where lost and with Mark's post I assume they were in
"memory" at shutdown time. I can imagine that's a Sendmail
misconfiguration related to the queue checkpoints (off topic).
But I am very happy! 50 of 11045 is an acceptable "accident".

Regards,
Antonio


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 16:35:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:35:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC553914740@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606230735240703e14ed6b7@msapiro>

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
>
>When I am in the bin direcocotry, I use the command withlist -l -r
>fix_url /listname/, I notice there are 3 fix_url in the bin directory.
>May I know if the "fix_url" is either
>fix_url.py/fix_url.pyc/fix_url.pyo?


It's all three. The source module is the .py file. The .pyc and .pyo
are compiled and optimized compiled files respectively. Python manages
these transparently, recompiling if necessary if the source is newer.


>And also, the listname you mean here is the mailing list, right? For
>example, (listname = lists/dragonite) which inside dragonite contains
>config.pck. Am I right?
>
>
>I have tried to use the command "withlist -l -r fix_url
>../lists/dragonite" and then it come out with the error as below;


In your case, the exact command is

withlist -l -r fix_url dragonite

i.e., just the list's name, not the path or the config.pick.

Note that if you just run 'fix_url.py' it will give some detail about
its usage.


>Importing fix_url...
>Running fix_url.py()...
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>	File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 275, in ?
>	Main()
>File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 250, in main
>	Func = getattr(mod, callable)
>Attribute error: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'


This error is because the command you gave was

withlist -l -r fix_url.py ...

rather than

withlist -l -r fix_url ...

Run 'bin/fix_url.py' and 'bin/withlist --help' for more details.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 16:41:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0606230523m36d4f16k6bbbf6b05efe1a02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062307415703433aeb97d0@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:

>i have recently upgraded to version 2.1.8.  messages are not being archived
>for the month of june.  archiving options are set properly in the
>interface.  the archive.mbox is there but when i run the arch script, it
>says that the html is being formatted but still no entry for june is
>visible.  the messages are being posted properly and go through to the
>list.  any help would be appreciated.


Are the June messages in archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox?

When you run bin/arch, do you see messages for June, i.e.

#nnnnn <message-id>
figuring article archives
2006-June

and

Updating index files for archive [2006-June]

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 16:45:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:45:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062307415703433aeb97d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062307451102033aeb9716@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Are the June messages in archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox?

If not, are there errors reported in Mailman's error log and shunted
messages in the 'shunt' queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdereus at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 17:54:43 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062307415703433aeb97d0@msapiro>
References: <c57a6bed0606230523m36d4f16k6bbbf6b05efe1a02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006062307415703433aeb97d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0606230854m2c0d37b4qccd7ed3cb455c6e4@mail.gmail.com>

yes they are in the .mbox and when I run arch it says that it is reworking
the html for the messages.  initially, i had to run arch to get the messages
from the digest.mbox to have them placed in the list.mbox.  the june
directory exists yet on the interface nothing shows.

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jeff DeReus wrote:
>
> >i have recently upgraded to version 2.1.8.  messages are not being
> archived
> >for the month of june.  archiving options are set properly in the
> >interface.  the archive.mbox is there but when i run the arch script, it
> >says that the html is being formatted but still no entry for june is
> >visible.  the messages are being posted properly and go through to the
> >list.  any help would be appreciated.
>
>
> Are the June messages in archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox?
>
> When you run bin/arch, do you see messages for June, i.e.
>
> #nnnnn <message-id>
> figuring article archives
> 2006-June
>
> and
>
> Updating index files for archive [2006-June]
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From jdereus at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 17:56:42 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:56:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062307451102033aeb9716@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006062307415703433aeb97d0@msapiro>
	<PC17402006062307451102033aeb9716@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0606230856m5a39ac3bp15256afea70462fe@mail.gmail.com>

and there are no entries in the shunt queue.  here is the error log entry

  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in
_parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in
_parsebody
    msg = self.parse(fp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in
_parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

Jun 23 02:45:24 2006 (4473) Ignoring unparseable message:
1151048724.4360731+1e264a285361f87ce3a55bc965c303a3f65881d4

Thank you,
Jeff D

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >Are the June messages in archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox?
>
> If not, are there errors reported in Mailman's error log and shunted
> messages in the 'shunt' queue.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 18:04:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:04:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0606230856m5a39ac3bp15256afea70462fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606230904230234082ddfe1@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:
>
>and there are no entries in the shunt queue.  here is the error log entry
>
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
>message_from_string
>    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in
>_parsebody
>    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in
>_parsebody
>    msg = self.parse(fp)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in
>_parsebody
>    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
>BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line
>
>Jun 23 02:45:24 2006 (4473) Ignoring unparseable message:
>1151048724.4360731+1e264a285361f87ce3a55bc965c303a3f65881d4


This is not related to your archive issue. It is an unparseable email
message (i.e. a message with defective MIME structure - most likely
spam) that was totally ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 18:08:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:08:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0606230854m2c0d37b4qccd7ed3cb455c6e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606230908020390082de068@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:
>
>the june
>directory exists yet on the interface nothing shows.


This is most likely due to old pages being cached in your web browser
or a proxy somewhere, or possibly you have two separate archives - a
pre upgrade archive at one location and a post upgrade archive at
another and your archive link points to the old one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 18:27:04 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:27:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install/email confirmation not working
Message-ID: <27572d930606230927h3bf485e5hec399dc33ffee502@mail.gmail.com>

I have been running a Mailman 2.1.8 system for quite awhile, using Postfix
as the MTA.

I am installing Mailman on another server, with plans to move all my 500
lists to the new server.

On the new server, I have installed Mailman, run 'configure' and 'make
install'. I have restarted Postfix and Mailman.

I have set up a new list and received email confirmation. I can add myself
as a subscriber via the web interface and get an email confirmation.

If I try to subscribe via email, nothing happens. The log files don't show
any email activity related to that transaction.

I have tried running configure with mail gid= postdrop, since that is what
Postfix was compiled to run under. That didn't work, so I have tried mail
gid = mailman and mail gid = postfix. The results are always the same.

I installed Mailman as myself and I am a member of the Mailman group with
permissions to write to that directory. Consequently, the directories and
files have permissions Owner:Me, Group: Mailman. I ran check_perms and there
don't seem to be any problems.

What next?


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From jamie_glendinning at work2fly.co.uk  Fri Jun 23 17:53:06 2006
From: jamie_glendinning at work2fly.co.uk (Jamie Glendinning)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:53:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman only sending out some messages...
Message-ID: <449C1C72.D2BF.00A9.0@work2fly.co.uk>

Hi

Our paragliding club has a webhosting setup using cpanel.
We are using the mailman mailing list service to attempt to run a mailing list to all our users.
mailman version: 2.1.7.cp2

Most mails are going out - but randomly mails are going missing.
all mail appear in the mailman archive.
all mail info is sent out in digest mode.

we have been getting a large amount of bounced message count on most accounts withing mailman.

we have about 270 addresses on the list. my feeling is that the mailgateway/mta struggles to cope with mailman firing all the messages at it - it bounces messages back to mailman which then increases that users bounce count. eventually locking them out.

as the server is using cpanel - I can't seem to see any log files...

has anyone seen this issue before or has any suggestions as to how I can resolve/help my isp resolve the issue?

cheers

jamie



From jdereus at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 18:42:10 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:42:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606230908020390082de068@msapiro>
References: <c57a6bed0606230854m2c0d37b4qccd7ed3cb455c6e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606230908020390082de068@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0606230942q7d60cf73iaa8ffe391b14252@mail.gmail.com>

yet when i did the upgrade I copied all of the archives and placed them in
the proper spot.  all other lists archive their posts correctly.
suggestions as to how to proceed or where to look?  do I need to check the
.mbox for the improper MIME structure?  any help is appreciated.

Thank you,
Jeff D

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jeff DeReus wrote:
> >
> >the june
> >directory exists yet on the interface nothing shows.
>
>
> This is most likely due to old pages being cached in your web browser
> or a proxy somewhere, or possibly you have two separate archives - a
> pre upgrade archive at one location and a post upgrade archive at
> another and your archive link points to the old one.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 18:45:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:45:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install/email confirmation not working
In-Reply-To: <27572d930606230927h3bf485e5hec399dc33ffee502@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606230945110359c64ff9b2@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>On the new server, I have installed Mailman, run 'configure' and 'make
>install'. I have restarted Postfix and Mailman.
>
>I have set up a new list and received email confirmation. I can add myself
>as a subscriber via the web interface and get an email confirmation.
>
>If I try to subscribe via email, nothing happens. The log files don't show
>any email activity related to that transaction.
>
>I have tried running configure with mail gid= postdrop, since that is what
>Postfix was compiled to run under. That didn't work, so I have tried mail
>gid = mailman and mail gid = postfix. The results are always the same.


It doesn't seem the mail is getting even that far. Do you have MTA =
'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py? Have you added path/to/data/aliases to
Postfix's alias_maps? See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

Note that Postfix will deliver to Mailman with owner:group of the
aliases.db file it finds the aliases in. This is normally group
'mailman' for data/aliases*, so for Postfix, you normally want
--with-mail-gid=mailman which is included in the default for configure.

What is in the Postfix logs for mail to Mailman?


>I installed Mailman as myself and I am a member of the Mailman group with
>permissions to write to that directory. Consequently, the directories and
>files have permissions Owner:Me, Group: Mailman. I ran check_perms and there
>don't seem to be any problems.


It's the group that's important. The above seems OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 18:58:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:58:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman only sending out some messages...
In-Reply-To: <449C1C72.D2BF.00A9.0@work2fly.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606230958200750a9fd4f42@msapiro>

Jamie Glendinning wrote:
>
>Most mails are going out - but randomly mails are going missing.


A message not received at all, or just not received by some users?


>we have been getting a large amount of bounced message count on most accounts withing mailman.
>
>we have about 270 addresses on the list.


This is a small list.


>my feeling is that the mailgateway/mta struggles to cope with mailman firing all the messages at it - it bounces messages back to mailman which then increases that users bounce count. eventually locking them out.


Possibly, but any MTA should be able to handle 270 recipients - less if
we subtract digests.

Is bounce processing set to notify owner on disable? If so, what does
the bounce say when members are disabled?


>as the server is using cpanel - I can't seem to see any log files...
>
>has anyone seen this issue before or has any suggestions as to how I can resolve/help my isp resolve the issue?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

Basically, you/they need to see logs. Mailman's 'smtp' and
'smtp-failure' and maybe 'bounce' logs and the outgoing MTAs logs.

In the 'smtp' log you are looking for entries like:

Jun 22 17:56:26 2006 (1570) <message-id> smtp for 187 recips, completed
in 6.433 seconds

to verify the the number of recipients is as expected. You are also
looking for possible failures and reasons in 'smtp-failure'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 19:15:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:15:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0606230942q7d60cf73iaa8ffe391b14252@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606231015120078a9fd4c9a@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:
>
>yet when i did the upgrade I copied all of the archives and placed them in
>the proper spot.  all other lists archive their posts correctly.
>suggestions as to how to proceed or where to look?  do I need to check the
>.mbox for the improper MIME structure?  any help is appreciated.


You don't need to check MIME structure in .mbox. The error log entry
you reported was almost certainly not related to archiving at all
(although the first part of the traceback was missing so I cant be
100% sure).

Are the messages actually being archived in the
archives/private/<listname>/2006-June/ directory?  If you do

cat archives/private/<listname>/index.html

is there an entry for June 2006?

If you do

ls -l archives/private/<listname>/2006-June/

do you see the nnnnnn.html files and the author.html, date.html,
subject.html and thread.html files and the index.html symlink?

If so, there is no problem with the archive; the problem is with web
access. My guess is you are accessing this as a public archive and your

Alias /pipermail/ ...

directive in httpd.conf still points to an old archive, but that's only
a guess.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdereus at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 20:20:44 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:20:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606231015120078a9fd4c9a@msapiro>
References: <c57a6bed0606230942q7d60cf73iaa8ffe391b14252@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606231015120078a9fd4c9a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0606231120k6e7febacnc1cb6148f0dab7dd@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jeff DeReus wrote:
> >
> >yet when i did the upgrade I copied all of the archives and placed them
> in
> >the proper spot.  all other lists archive their posts correctly.
> >suggestions as to how to proceed or where to look?  do I need to check
> the
> >.mbox for the improper MIME structure?  any help is appreciated.
>
>
> You don't need to check MIME structure in .mbox. The error log entry
> you reported was almost certainly not related to archiving at all
> (although the first part of the traceback was missing so I cant be
> 100% sure).
>
> Are the messages actually being archived in the
> archives/private/<listname>/2006-June/ directory?  If you do
>
> cat archives/private/<listname>/index.html
>
> is there an entry for June 2006?
>


Actually there is not.   which seems odd since the arch script tells me that
> it is creating the html.
>


If you do
>
> ls -l archives/private/<listname>/2006-June/
>
> do you see the nnnnnn.html files and the author.html, date.html,
> subject.html and thread.html files and the index.html symlink?


well since the 2006-June doesn't exist (which I am sure it did yesterday as
odd as that sounds)  i can't see it.

If so, there is no problem with the archive; the problem is with web
> access. My guess is you are accessing this as a public archive and your
>
> Alias /pipermail/ ...
>
> directive in httpd.conf still points to an old archive, but that's only
> a guess.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Jun 23 21:57:45 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:57:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install/email confirmation not working
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606230945110359c64ff9b2@msapiro>
References: <27572d930606230927h3bf485e5hec399dc33ffee502@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606230945110359c64ff9b2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930606231257o674e6678xac7266246893fcd3@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> >On the new server, I have installed Mailman, run 'configure' and 'make
> >install'. I have restarted Postfix and Mailman.
> >
> >I have set up a new list and received email confirmation. I can add
> myself
> >as a subscriber via the web interface and get an email confirmation.
> >
> >If I try to subscribe via email, nothing happens. The log files don't
> show
> >any email activity related to that transaction.
> >
> >I have tried running configure with mail gid= postdrop, since that is
> what
> >Postfix was compiled to run under. That didn't work, so I have tried mail
> >gid = mailman and mail gid = postfix. The results are always the same.
>
>
> It doesn't seem the mail is getting even that far. Do you have MTA =
> 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py? Have you added path/to/data/aliases to
> Postfix's alias_maps? See
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.



MTA='Postfix' is in the mm_cfg.py file. I am not integrating Mailman and
Postfix so that aliases are generated. I am utilizing /etc/aliases for the
aliases file.



Note that Postfix will deliver to Mailman with owner:group of the
> aliases.db file it finds the aliases in. This is normally group
> 'mailman' for data/aliases*, so for Postfix, you normally want
> --with-mail-gid=mailman which is included in the default for configure.
>
> What is in the Postfix logs for mail to Mailman?


There is nothing in the Postfix logs referring to Mailman, except if I do
the subscribe from the Admin interface.


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 22:12:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:12:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install/email confirmation not working
In-Reply-To: <27572d930606231257o674e6678xac7266246893fcd3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062313122000316d659553@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> It doesn't seem the mail is getting even that far. Do you have MTA =
>> 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py? Have you added path/to/data/aliases to
>> Postfix's alias_maps? See
>> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.
>
>
>
>MTA='Postfix' is in the mm_cfg.py file. I am not integrating Mailman and
>Postfix so that aliases are generated. I am utilizing /etc/aliases for the
>aliases file.


So have you copied mailman's aliases from data/aliases to /etc/aliases
and run Postfix's postalias command?


>Note that Postfix will deliver to Mailman with owner:group of the
>> aliases.db file it finds the aliases in. This is normally group
>> 'mailman' for data/aliases*, so for Postfix, you normally want
>> --with-mail-gid=mailman which is included in the default for configure.


Since you're putting aliases in /etc/aliases, Postfix will invoke the
wrapper with the owner:group of /etc/aliases.db. This is the group
that should be used as --with-mail-gid for configure.


>> What is in the Postfix logs for mail to Mailman?
>
>
>There is nothing in the Postfix logs referring to Mailman, except if I do
>the subscribe from the Admin interface.


So there is nothing in the Postfix log at all for the message you send
to listname-subscribe at ...?

Maybe it's being routed to some other MTA on some other server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 23 23:07:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:07:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0606231120k6e7febacnc1cb6148f0dab7dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062314075600937ad8c4f5@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:
>
>On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> cat archives/private/<listname>/index.html
>>
>> is there an entry for June 2006?
>>
>
>
>Actually there is not.   which seems odd since the arch script tells me that
>> it is creating the html.
>>
>
>
>If you do
>>
>> ls -l archives/private/<listname>/2006-June/
>>
>> do you see the nnnnnn.html files and the author.html, date.html,
>> subject.html and thread.html files and the index.html symlink?
>
>
>well since the 2006-June doesn't exist (which I am sure it did yesterday as
>odd as that sounds)  i can't see it.

I'm guessing that you must have archives/private/* structure in two
different places on your server, an old one and a new one and both you
and your web server are looking (today) at the old one.

Is this problem list's archive public and if so, are you visiting it
via something like http:/www.example.com/pipermail/listname/?

If so, what happens if you go to something like
http:/www.example.com/mailman/private/listname/ and log in? If this
too is missing June, then what else is different between this list an
the ones that work?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun 23 23:12:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and fault tolerance
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221111170906b85a31bb@msapiro>
References: <p06200702c0bfc96a1201@[10.0.1.7]>
	<PC1740200606221111170906b85a31bb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42684.72.177.126.107.1151097159.squirrel@mail.his.com>


> The outgoing message (containing a recipient list in its metadata) is
> placed in Mailman's 'out' queue where it is picked up by
> OutgoingRunner. At this point it is deleted from the out queue and
> exists only in memory. OutgoingRunner calls the DELIVERY_MODULE
> (normally SMTPDirect) to actually pass the message to the outgoing
> MTA. If the 'plug is pulled' on this process, the current SMTP
> transaction is lost as are the subsequent transactions on behalf of
> 'the rest' of the recipients.

Then this is a major bug in the way Mailman operates, and we need to fix
this.  Lock the file and make sure no other process tries to deliver that
message while you're working on it, but the file should not be deleted
until we get a confirmation that the MTA has accepted the message and has
taken responsibility for it.

Anything else would be a pretty serious violation of RFC 1123, for starters.


From bw at his.com  Sat Jun 24 03:24:02 2006
From: bw at his.com (Bill Whitacre)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:24:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Batch delete admin requests
References: <46ED2E54-A133-4891-A20F-F76FA87C7A22@his.com>
Message-ID: <FB43D12A-A366-439B-84EE-D7DB1F28D800@his.com>

I'm using Mailman 2.1.2 on a Mac OS X Server.

Is there a way to batch delete a slew of admin requests without  
having to click the 'Discard' radio button on each and every one?

Yes, I would LOVE to update to a newer version but I am not sure what  
'special' things Apple has done on their 'stock' install of Mailman  
on Server.

Thanks for any help.

bw

---
Bill Whitacre
bw at his.com





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Jun 24 05:44:11 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:44:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Batch delete admin requests
In-Reply-To: <FB43D12A-A366-439B-84EE-D7DB1F28D800@his.com>
References: <46ED2E54-A133-4891-A20F-F76FA87C7A22@his.com>
	<FB43D12A-A366-439B-84EE-D7DB1F28D800@his.com>
Message-ID: <44110.72.177.126.107.1151120651.squirrel@mail.his.com>

> I'm using Mailman 2.1.2 on a Mac OS X Server.
>
> Is there a way to batch delete a slew of admin requests without
> having to click the 'Discard' radio button on each and every one?

Not with the version of Mailman that Apple hacked up and stuffed into
MacOS X Server, no.

You might be able to use the command-line admin tools discussed in FAQ 4.9
or the additional (unsupported) web tools mentioned in FAQ 3.53, however.

> Yes, I would LOVE to update to a newer version but I am not sure what
> 'special' things Apple has done on their 'stock' install of Mailman
> on Server.

Yeah, they hacked it up alright.

One of the largest known Mailman sites uses MacOS X Server for their
machines, but they don't use the hacked up version of Mailman that Apple
provides, and for good reason -- Apple doesn't provide any measurable
amount of support to their "Server" customers.  Instead, they just hack
stuff together, throw it over the wall, and it's up to the customer base
to decide whether or not they want to catch whatever it is that they
suddenly find being dropped on them from altitude.

You like playing the game "spear catcher", right?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From edwin at bitstorm.org  Sat Jun 24 09:00:33 2006
From: edwin at bitstorm.org (Edwin Martin)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:00:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] With mailman installed,
	normal e-mail addressen on same host bounce
Message-ID: <449CE311.6050901@bitstorm.org>

Hello,

I'm trying to get Mailman running on a Debian host with Exim 4.

After I set up the router and transport for exim as described in the
installation manual, mailman does work (the mailman webpages show info
about the mailinglist) but sending an e-mail to accounts on the same
machine bounces.

The error message is: "local delivery failed".

Disabling the router and transport for Exim makes everything (except
mailman) work again.

These are the Exim config files:

/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/900_exim4-config_mailman:
mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    require_files = /var/lib/mailman/lists/nieuwsbrief/config.pck
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                        -owner : -request : -admin
    transport = mailman_transport


/etc/exim4/conf.d/transport/40_exim4-config_mailman:
mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = /var/lib/mailman
    home_directory = /var/lib/mailman
    user = list
    group = list


Can anybody please help me?

Edwin

dpkg -l|grep mailman
ii  mailman        2.1.5-8sarge2  Powerful, web-based mailing list manager
uname -a
Linux xxx 2.4.31-bf2.4 #1 SMP  i686 GNU/Linux




From bw at his.com  Sat Jun 24 12:06:09 2006
From: bw at his.com (Bill Whitacre)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 06:06:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Batch delete admin requests
In-Reply-To: <44110.72.177.126.107.1151120651.squirrel@mail.his.com>
References: <46ED2E54-A133-4891-A20F-F76FA87C7A22@his.com>
	<FB43D12A-A366-439B-84EE-D7DB1F28D800@his.com>
	<44110.72.177.126.107.1151120651.squirrel@mail.his.com>
Message-ID: <E99AD1FE-47AC-4BAD-ABC6-87C445EFC0EF@his.com>


On Jun 23, 2006, at 11:44 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

>> I'm using Mailman 2.1.2 on a Mac OS X Server.
>>
>> Is there a way to batch delete a slew of admin requests without
>> having to click the 'Discard' radio button on each and every one?
>
> Not with the version of Mailman that Apple hacked up and stuffed into
> MacOS X Server, no.
>
> You might be able to use the command-line admin tools discussed in  
> FAQ 4.9
> or the additional (unsupported) web tools mentioned in FAQ 3.53,  
> however.

Thanks Brad.

I looked at the two FAQs you recommended.

FAQ 4.9 DOES have a 'discard' command and, you guessed it, Apple did  
not include that in the collection they provide with Server.

Maybe it's one that came along post-2.1.2?

I did find where the held messages live though:

/private/var/mailman/data

I wonder what would happen if I just deleted all the held messages?

I'll bet there's a command that one should run after that to re-sync  
things, eh?!

>> Yes, I would LOVE to update to a newer version but I am not sure what
>> 'special' things Apple has done on their 'stock' install of Mailman
>> on Server.
>
> Yeah, they hacked it up alright.
>
> One of the largest known Mailman sites uses MacOS X Server for their
> machines, but they don't use the hacked up version of Mailman that  
> Apple
> provides

Hmmm ... maybe that's what I should be doing -- use a stock and  
upgradeable install of Mailman.  I did that install once a year or  
more ago and it wasn't pretty, but at least one ended up with  
something that was recognizable to anyone doing Mailman on other  
platforms.

bw

---
Bill Whitacre
bw at his.com



From jdereus at gmail.com  Sat Jun 24 15:49:58 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 08:49:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062314075600937ad8c4f5@msapiro>
References: <c57a6bed0606231120k6e7febacnc1cb6148f0dab7dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006062314075600937ad8c4f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0606240649j640ab973n88912186b976f02f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jeff DeReus wrote:
> >
> >On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> cat archives/private/<listname>/index.html
> >>
> >> is there an entry for June 2006?
> >>
> >
> >
> >Actually there is not.   which seems odd since the arch script tells me
> that
> >> it is creating the html.
> >>
> >
> >
> >If you do
> >>
> >> ls -l archives/private/<listname>/2006-June/
> >>
> >> do you see the nnnnnn.html files and the author.html, date.html,
> >> subject.html and thread.html files and the index.html symlink?
> >
> >
> >well since the 2006-June doesn't exist (which I am sure it did yesterday
> as
> >odd as that sounds)  i can't see it.
>
> I'm guessing that you must have archives/private/* structure in two
> different places on your server, an old one and a new one and both you
> and your web server are looking (today) at the old one.


the list is under /archives/public/* yet the archives are set to be private
in the interface.  not quite sure if that plays into anything, yet I would
think not.

Is this problem list's archive public and if so, are you visiting it
> via something like http:/www.example.com/pipermail/listname/?


if I go to the list with /pipermail/* the 2006-June entry does not show.  If
i go to /mailman/* the entry for 2006-June appears yet when I try to access
the archives for that month it gives me an error message of No Such List for
June-2006.  Oddly, there is no entry for June in the mailman/* file for
June.  so why would it show up in the archives at all?

If so, what happens if you go to something like
> http:/www.example.com/mailman/private/listname/ and log in? If this
> too is missing June, then what else is different between this list an
> the ones that work?


I see nothing else different between the other lists.

--
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From farokh at mcfsoftware.com  Sat Jun 24 16:34:23 2006
From: farokh at mcfsoftware.com (Farokh Irani)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:34:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Batch delete admin requests
In-Reply-To: <44110.72.177.126.107.1151120651.squirrel@mail.his.com>
References: <46ED2E54-A133-4891-A20F-F76FA87C7A22@his.com>
	<FB43D12A-A366-439B-84EE-D7DB1F28D800@his.com>
	<44110.72.177.126.107.1151120651.squirrel@mail.his.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090ec0c2f6b84db5@[165.254.4.10]>

>  Yes, I would LOVE to update to a newer version but I am not sure what
>  'special' things Apple has done on their 'stock' install of Mailman
>  on Server.

I've been playing with upgrading the 2.1.5 that comes with OS X to 
2.1.8 and it seemed to work OK except that the update script claimed 
that there were no lists to update. Fortunately I only had one list 
since this was a test setup. When I launched the OS X Server admin 
app, it showed no lists at all. I stopped and started the mailing 
lists, and it recreated the mailman list and all seems to be ok. I'm 
trying to look at the various scripts to see why update couldn't find 
any lists.
-- 

Farokh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCF Software...simply dependably engineered
Developers of ListSTAR http://www.liststar.com/, MacRADIUS
http://www.macradius.com/, Address List Sorter
http://www.mcfsoftware.com/als/, SimpleText Filter for EIMS
http://www.mcfsoftware.com/stf/ and Auto Reply plug-in for EIMS 
http://www.mcfsoftware.com/ar/.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 24 17:38:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 08:38:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot rebuild archives
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0606240649j640ab973n88912186b976f02f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606240838100828b18be426@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:
>
>the list is under /archives/public/* yet the archives are set to be private
>in the interface.  not quite sure if that plays into anything, yet I would
>think not.


Each of your posts contains an additional clue that you are not looking
at the correct archive.

In general, all archives are maintained under archives/private/list*.
If the archive is public, archives/public/list is a symlink to
archives/private/list and in addition if PUBLIC_MBOX is Yes in
mm_cfg.py, archives/public/list.mbox is a symlink to
archives/private/list.mbox. If the archive is private, there are no
symlinks for it in archives/public.

These symlinks are created or removed based on the list's
archive_private setting every time the list is saved. This means in
general just looking at list settings in the admin interface or
processing a post or almost anything that touches a list will create
or remove the archives/public/list* symlinks according to the list's
archive_private setting. Thus, if your list's archive_private is Yes
and you are seeing symlinks for it in archives/public, you are not
looking at the same archives directory as mailman.

Thus, I ask again do you have one pre-upgrade or whatever
old/path/to/archives/ directory and a different post-upgrade or
whatever new/path/to/archives/ directory?

If you have more than one, rename something in the old path (e.g.
change 'mailman' to 'old-mailman') so that you can't get confused
about which is which and Mailman, if it is using it, won't find it.
Then look at the (current) archives/private/list.mbox/list.mbox and
make sure it's up to date, and then do 'bin/arch --wipe list' and then
examine the archives/private/list/ directory and see if it has
everything.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Sat Jun 24 17:50:20 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:20:20 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with Sendmail
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606240850q3568a654r1d46f1504a8cc78@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All

I am getting the below error in the Mailman Logs

Jun 24 20:40:28 2006 (12460) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or
service not known'), msgid:
<mailman.0.1151161504.15222.test at mydomain.com>
Jun 24 20:40:28 2006 (12460) delivery to kaushal at mydomain.com failed
with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')


Thanks and regards

Kaushal


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 24 18:16:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:16:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Batch delete admin requests
In-Reply-To: <E99AD1FE-47AC-4BAD-ABC6-87C445EFC0EF@his.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606240916580953b9317393@msapiro>

Bill Whitacre wrote:
>
>I did find where the held messages live though:
>
>/private/var/mailman/data
>
>I wonder what would happen if I just deleted all the held messages?
>
>I'll bet there's a command that one should run after that to re-sync  
>things, eh?!


I've never suggested this because I'd never investigated the
ramifications, but this prompted me to test it in 2.1.8 and it seems
to work - YMMV.

The issue is that the entries on the admindb page don't come from the
data/heldmsg-list-* files. They come from lists/list/request.pck (or
request.db in your case). This means that after you delete the
data/heldmsg-list-* files and go to the admindb page, the entries will
still be there, but if you just click the 'Submit' button, Mailman
will clean up and remove the entries from the request.pck (or .db)
file and even log the discards in the vette log. Also, you will
continue to get the daily "n admin requests" email if you don't go to
the admindb and 'clean up'

There are still entries in the lists/list/pending.pck file which are
the confirmation tokens that can be used to approve or delete a post,
but these expire after PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE (default 3 days) so they
will take care of themselves.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 24 19:14:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:14:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] With mailman installed,
	normal e-mail addressen on same host bounce
In-Reply-To: <449CE311.6050901@bitstorm.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606241014580781c9917e67@msapiro>

Edwin Martin wrote:
>
>I'm trying to get Mailman running on a Debian host with Exim 4.
>
>After I set up the router and transport for exim as described in the
>installation manual, mailman does work (the mailman webpages show info
>about the mailinglist) but sending an e-mail to accounts on the same
>machine bounces.


The installation manual is wrong. See
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf> for additions to
local_part_suffix and the addition of 'domains =' in the router
definition.

That said, I don't see that those changes will affect your problem.


>The error message is: "local delivery failed".


What are the full messages from the Exim log.


>These are the Exim config files:


It appears that you have eliminated the macro definitions and
substituted them directly into the router and transport definitions.
While this may not be a problen, the fact that you have literally
'nieuwsbrief' instead of '${lc::$local_part}' in require_files in the
router means this router will only work for the one list. Maybe this
was part of your debugging?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 24 19:18:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:18:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606240850q3568a654r1d46f1504a8cc78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606241018310656bdd630af@msapiro>

Kaushal Shriyan wrote:
>
>I am getting the below error in the Mailman Logs
>
>Jun 24 20:40:28 2006 (12460) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or
>service not known'), msgid:
><mailman.0.1151161504.15222.test at mydomain.com>
>Jun 24 20:40:28 2006 (12460) delivery to kaushal at mydomain.com failed
>with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Sun Jun 25 11:23:06 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:53:06 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with sendmail
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606250223p31f41911qc5cd2aab971f2097@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All

 I am using Mailman 2.1.8, I have created a test Mailing list
 and I get mails from the list saying confirm
08f4434e9e9b8a94dd93461f05ce75daf34afb5b to the emailid which i
subscribe
 but I dont get the final welcome Mail saying welcome to Test Mailing List

Thanks and Regards

Kaushal


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Jun 25 16:20:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 09:20:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606250223p31f41911qc5cd2aab971f2097@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0606250223p31f41911qc5cd2aab971f2097@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606250720l5afbd289me1f26a49d136c49b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I am using Mailman 2.1.8, I have created a test Mailing list
>  and I get mails from the list saying confirm
> 08f4434e9e9b8a94dd93461f05ce75daf34afb5b to the emailid which i
> subscribe
>  but I dont get the final welcome Mail saying welcome to Test Mailing List

How are you sending the confirmation reply?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 25 16:31:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 07:31:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606250720l5afbd289me1f26a49d136c49b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606250731320265ee49fe69@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/25/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I am using Mailman 2.1.8, I have created a test Mailing list
>>  and I get mails from the list saying confirm
>> 08f4434e9e9b8a94dd93461f05ce75daf34afb5b to the emailid which i
>> subscribe
>>  but I dont get the final welcome Mail saying welcome to Test Mailing List
>
>How are you sending the confirmation reply?


Yes. How?

More specifically, are you subscribing by web or email? Are you
confirming by web or email? After you confirm, is the address
subscribed even though you don't get the welcome?

In other words, Is the problem that email doesn't get to Mailman at all
or is it something else?

The FAQ article at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From neximuss at gmail.com  Sun Jun 25 23:54:26 2006
From: neximuss at gmail.com (||NeX||)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:54:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to allow just members to post?
Message-ID: <5038719.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello,

I have a mailinglist with 10 members and I want to let them send all they
want (this I think I know how to do), but there are coming some spam mails
in my filter and I have to delete them manually. How can I manage that all
mails which aren't send from any member are being discarded automaticly?

Thanks in forward,
Nex
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-to-allow-just-members-to-post--t1845923.html#a5038719
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 01:11:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:11:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to allow just members to post?
In-Reply-To: <5038719.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606251611460359fa399955@msapiro>

||NeX|| wrote:
>
>I have a mailinglist with 10 members and I want to let them send all they
>want (this I think I know how to do), but there are coming some spam mails
>in my filter and I have to delete them manually. How can I manage that all
>mails which aren't send from any member are being discarded automaticly?


set Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to
Discard.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Mon Jun 26 01:53:02 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 07:53:02 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606230735240703e14ed6b7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55394B662@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Thank you very much, Mark. It works well.

 

But there is one more thing, when I tried to enter one of the list admin
page and right after I key in admin password and click "Let me In",
there will be error;

 

Bug in Mailman Version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

 

Please inform the webmaster for this site of the problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

 

This happen after the domain migration from "mys.agilent.com" to
"mys.avagotech.net".

Any idea on how to solve it?

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Ong, Hai Seong

IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer

Research and Development

Navigation Products Division

Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd

Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824

Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:35 PM
To: ONG,HAI-SEONG; Ryan Steele
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman

 

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:

> 

>When I am in the bin direcocotry, I use the command withlist -l -r

>fix_url /listname/, I notice there are 3 fix_url in the bin directory.

>May I know if the "fix_url" is either

>fix_url.py/fix_url.pyc/fix_url.pyo?

 

 

It's all three. The source module is the .py file. The .pyc and .pyo

are compiled and optimized compiled files respectively. Python manages

these transparently, recompiling if necessary if the source is newer.

 

 

>And also, the listname you mean here is the mailing list, right? For

>example, (listname = lists/dragonite) which inside dragonite contains

>config.pck. Am I right?

> 

> 

>I have tried to use the command "withlist -l -r fix_url

>../lists/dragonite" and then it come out with the error as below;

 

 

In your case, the exact command is

 

withlist -l -r fix_url dragonite

 

i.e., just the list's name, not the path or the config.pick.

 

Note that if you just run 'fix_url.py' it will give some detail about

its usage.

 

 

>Importing fix_url...

>Running fix_url.py()...

>Traceback (most recent call last):

>     File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 275, in ?

>     Main()

>File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 250, in main

>     Func = getattr(mod, callable)

>Attribute error: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'

 

 

This error is because the command you gave was

 

withlist -l -r fix_url.py ...

 

rather than

 

withlist -l -r fix_url ...

 

Run 'bin/fix_url.py' and 'bin/withlist --help' for more details.

 

-- 

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,

San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 02:03:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:03:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55394B662@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606251703180875d18d36fd@msapiro>

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
>
>But there is one more thing, when I tried to enter one of the list admin
>page and right after I key in admin password and click "Let me In",
>there will be error;
>
>
>
>Bug in Mailman Version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of the problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.


Look in Mailman's error log and find the error message. If you need
help, post the complete error message and traceback from one
occurrence, and we will try to help you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Mon Jun 26 02:55:10 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:55:10 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606251703180875d18d36fd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55394B768@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Hi Mark,

The error is as in attachment.

FYI, all my lists are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/

Thanks.


Best Regards,
 
Ong, Hai Seong
IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer
Research and Development
Navigation Products Division
Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd
Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824
Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:03 AM
To: ONG,HAI-SEONG
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
>
>But there is one more thing, when I tried to enter one of the list
admin
>page and right after I key in admin password and click "Let me In",
>there will be error;
>
>
>
>Bug in Mailman Version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of the problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.


Look in Mailman's error log and find the error message. If you need
help, post the complete error message and traceback from one
occurrence, and we will try to help you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: error.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20060626/332a4610/attachment.txt 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 03:34:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 18:34:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55394B768@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606251834460953d18d3767@msapiro>

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:


>Jun 26 16:08:34 2006 admin(13110): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(13110): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>admin(13110): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(13110): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
>admin(13110):     main()
>admin(13110):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in main
>admin(13110):     mlist.Save()
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 529, in Save
>admin(13110):     self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 240, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir
>admin(13110):     makelink(privdir, pubdir)
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 48, in makelink
>admin(13110):     os.symlink(old, new)
>admin(13110): OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory


Essentially, every time a list is accessed, the archiver is called to
either create or remove the symlink from archives/public/listname to
archives/private/listname depending on the list's archive_private
setting.


<snip>
>admin(13110):   REQUEST_URI: /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/venus


In this case, the list 'venus' has an archive_private setting of Public
so Mailman is trying to do the equivalent of

ln -s archives/private/venus archives/public/venus

and the archives/public directory (or some superordinate) doesn't exist.

Did you move your lists and not their archives?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 08:22:12 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:52:12 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606250731320265ee49fe69@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606250720l5afbd289me1f26a49d136c49b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606250731320265ee49fe69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606252322r716cfaf6j729414a4e739b47@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >On 6/25/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>  I am using Mailman 2.1.8, I have created a test Mailing list
> >>  and I get mails from the list saying confirm
> >> 08f4434e9e9b8a94dd93461f05ce75daf34afb5b to the emailid which i
> >> subscribe
> >>  but I dont get the final welcome Mail saying welcome to Test Mailing List
> >
> >How are you sending the confirmation reply?
>
>
> Yes. How?
>
> More specifically, are you subscribing by web or email? Are you
> confirming by web or email? After you confirm, is the address
> subscribed even though you don't get the welcome?
>
> In other words, Is the problem that email doesn't get to Mailman at all
> or is it something else?
>
> The FAQ article at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
> may help.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

Hi Mark

> >How are you sending the confirmation reply?

I am sending the confirmation reply to the message keeping the subject matter
intact

>
> Yes. How?
>
> More specifically, are you subscribing by web or email? Are you
> confirming by web or email? After you confirm, is the address
> subscribed even though you don't get the welcome?
>
> In other words, Is the problem that email doesn't get to Mailman at all
> or is it something else?

I am subscribing the emailid's using the web interface, I have noticed
one thing in
the Mailman(2.1.8) logs/subscribe, It says pending :(

Jun 24 20:33:20 2006 (15107) test: pending Kaushal Shriyan
<kaushal at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
Jun 24 20:35:04 2006 (15222) test: pending Kaushal Shriyan
<kaushal at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
Jun 25 12:21:30 2006 (26560) test: pending Kaushal Shriyan
<kaushal at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
Jun 25 12:29:32 2006 (26661) test: pending Kaushal Shriyan
<kaushal at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
Jun 26 11:20:54 2006 (2573) test: pending Suresh <suresh at mydomain.com>
 127.0.0.1
Jun 26 11:29:01 2006 (2722) test: pending suresh <suresh at mydomain.com>
 127.0.0.1
Jun 26 11:31:31 2006 (2758) test: pending praveen
<praveen at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
Jun 26 11:32:50 2006 (2772) test: pending contact
<contact at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1

Please let me know whether you need more info on this issue,

Thanks in Advance

Kaushal


From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Mon Jun 26 11:33:42 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:33:42 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606251834460953d18d3767@msapiro>
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55394C1CE@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Thanks for the prompt reply, Mark.

I check my archives folder and what I see is just
"archives/private/spark/....."

Things which I observed;

1) There is no public folder in the archives. 
2) There is only "spark"(which is one of the mailing lists) in private
folder.



Best Regards,
 
Ong, Hai Seong
IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer
Research and Development
Navigation Products Division
Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd
Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824
Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:35 AM
To: ONG,HAI-SEONG
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:


>Jun 26 16:08:34 2006 admin(13110):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(13110): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>admin(13110): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(13110): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
run_main
>admin(13110):     main()
>admin(13110):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200,
in main
>admin(13110):     mlist.Save()
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 529,
in Save
>admin(13110):     self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py",
line 240, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir
>admin(13110):     makelink(privdir, pubdir)
>admin(13110):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py",
line 48, in makelink
>admin(13110):     os.symlink(old, new)
>admin(13110): OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory


Essentially, every time a list is accessed, the archiver is called to
either create or remove the symlink from archives/public/listname to
archives/private/listname depending on the list's archive_private
setting.


<snip>
>admin(13110):   REQUEST_URI: /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/venus


In this case, the list 'venus' has an archive_private setting of Public
so Mailman is trying to do the equivalent of

ln -s archives/private/venus archives/public/venus

and the archives/public directory (or some superordinate) doesn't exist.

Did you move your lists and not their archives?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 14:14:33 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:14:33 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Showing undisclosed recipients
Message-ID: <1c22506e0606260514j3b6aff81xf09b8383cdc0e87f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ALL,

I've been looking for information about how to change the of a list. Since I
couldn't find anything easier than creating a new list and importing the
users from the old one, I've thinking of how can I do to the users in the
list do not see the list main address on the TO: field, besides that I would
like them to see their own e-mail address or the undisclosed recipients
message. Is that possible ?

thanks in advance.



-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 17:14:58 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:14:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Showing undisclosed recipients
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0606260514j3b6aff81xf09b8383cdc0e87f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1c22506e0606260514j3b6aff81xf09b8383cdc0e87f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606260814w6a3b3808h878cb8789d11e271@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/06, Fabiano Breves <fabiano.breves at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been looking for information about how to change the of a list. Since I
> couldn't find anything easier than creating a new list and importing the
> users from the old one, I've thinking of how can I do to the users in the
> list do not see the list main address on the TO: field, besides that I would
> like them to see their own e-mail address or the undisclosed recipients
> message. Is that possible ?

See:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 17:23:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606252322r716cfaf6j729414a4e739b47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062608232409064af57bc2@msapiro>

Kaushal Shriyanwrote:

>On 6/25/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> More specifically, are you subscribing by web or email? Are you
>> confirming by web or email? After you confirm, is the address
>> subscribed even though you don't get the welcome?
>>
>> In other words, Is the problem that email doesn't get to Mailman at all
>> or is it something else?
>
>I am subscribing the emailid's using the web interface, I have noticed
>one thing in
>the Mailman(2.1.8) logs/subscribe, It says pending :(
>
>Jun 24 20:33:20 2006 (15107) test: pending Kaushal Shriyan
><kaushal at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
<snip>



These log entries were made when the confirmation was sent to you.


>Please let me know whether you need more info on this issue,


I'm guessing at this point that no mail is being successfully delivered
to Mailman. Have you installed aliases in sendmail's alias file and
run 'newalias'?

Try confirming via web. Does that work?

When you reply to the confirmation by email, do you get any kind of
response - an undeliverable notice? What's in the sendmail logs?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 17:23:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:23:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55394C1CE@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062608235206874af57b03@msapiro>

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:

>Thanks for the prompt reply, Mark.
>
>I check my archives folder and what I see is just
>"archives/private/spark/....."
>
>Things which I observed;
>
>1) There is no public folder in the archives.
>2) There is only "spark"(which is one of the mailing lists) in private
>folder.

I don't understand why these things are missing, but you must have an
archives/public/ directory, and an archives/private/<list>/ directory
and an archives/private/<list>.mbox/ directory for every <list> in
lists/. These directories must all be in the mailman group and have
permissions 2775 (rwxrwsr-x). The archives/private/ directory itslf
should have permissions 2770 or 2771 (rwxrws--- or rwxrws--x) and also
be in the mailman group.

The archives/private/ and archives/public/ directories are created by
the Mailman installation process and the archives/private/<list>/ and
archives/private/<list>.mbox/ directories are created when the list is
created.

You will have to create the missing directories.

You also might need to create the default
archives/private/<list>/index.html file for those lists that don't
have one. Creating a 'test' list should create one as an example.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stewart.rob at comcast.net  Mon Jun 26 17:37:17 2006
From: stewart.rob at comcast.net (Rob Stewart)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:37:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Questions
Message-ID: <449FFF2D.2040207@comcast.net>

   1.   I would like to re-initialize my archives as I am turning on my
      lists, and want to remove all the "testing" emails that I have
      sent during my setup.  I know that deleting the list will do it,
      but then I loose all my setup changes.  Is there another way?
   2. I have a list admin and list moderators.  Is is possible to let
      the moderators see the user list even when they are not members of
      the list?  I really need this.


Thanks for your help.
Rob Stewart
-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.4/375 - Release Date: 6/25/2006

From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Mon Jun 26 17:55:27 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:55:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating form majordomo question
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060626114650.01dd9a50@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>


How are the mailing list emails stored in Mailman are they stored in a text 
file or in a database? How can I look at it from the command line? We have 
to migrate all our mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman. I was thinking 
to create new mailing list and then copy/paste all the member email 
addresses from majordomo to Mailman if it is a text file. Could you please 
advice me on this. I would really appreciate your help

Thank you.

UR.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 17:55:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:55:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Showing undisclosed recipients
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0606260514j3b6aff81xf09b8383cdc0e87f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060626085550018762afcbcd@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>I've been looking for information about how to change the of a list. Since I
                                                       ^^^^^^^

I'm guessing you mean 'change the name of a list'


>couldn't find anything easier than creating a new list and importing the
>users from the old one,


If you have access to the server, you can do the following

mv lists/old lists/new
mv archives/private/old archives/private/new
mv archives/private/old.mbox archives/private/new.mbox
mv archives/private/new.mbox/old.mbox archives/private/new.mbox/new.mbox

Then go to the web admin interface for the 'new' list and change the
real_name from 'Old' to 'New'.

At this point, everything is OK except the 'more information about this
list' links on some archive pages will still point to the 'old' list
which doesn't exist. You can fix those manually or rebuild the archive
with

bin/arch --wipe new

If you don't have access to the server, you have to do what you did.

 
>I've thinking of how can I do to the users in the
>list do not see the list main address on the TO: field, besides that I would
>like them to see their own e-mail address or the undisclosed recipients
>message. Is that possible ?


If this is an announcement list, and you do all the posting, you could
post with Bcc: to the list. This requires you to set Privacy
options...->Recipient filters->require_explicit_destination to No or
the post will be held for implicit destination (unless you are using
an Approved: header to post).

If you see the personalize option on the Non-digest options page, you
can set it to Full and Mailman will put the recipient's address in
To:. If you don't see this option, you need access to the server to put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py to make it appear.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 18:41:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:41:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Questions
In-Reply-To: <449FFF2D.2040207@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062609414505006bfc4fc1@msapiro>

Rob Stewart wrote:
>
>   1.   I would like to re-initialize my archives as I am turning on my
>      lists, and want to remove all the "testing" emails that I have
>      sent during my setup.  I know that deleting the list will do it,
>      but then I loose all my setup changes.  Is there another way?


cp /dev/null archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
bin/arch --wipe listname


>   2. I have a list admin and list moderators.  Is is possible to let
>      the moderators see the user list even when they are not members of
>      the list?  I really need this.


A moderator can go to http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname/
either directly or via the 'Visit Subscriber List' button on the
listinfo page using the moderator password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 18:48:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:48:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating form majordomo question
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060626114650.01dd9a50@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606260948460890432b0ac8@msapiro>

Uthra Rao wrote:
>
>How are the mailing list emails stored in Mailman are they stored in a text 
>file or in a database?


If you don't have a custom member adaptor, they are stored as part of
the Python pickle that stores all the list information -
lists/listname/config.pck


>How can I look at it from the command line? We have 
>to migrate all our mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman. I was thinking 
>to create new mailing list and then copy/paste all the member email 
>addresses from majordomo to Mailman if it is a text file. Could you please 
>advice me on this. I would really appreciate your help


Use the admin Membership Management...->Mass Subscription interface to
upload (or paste) a plain text file. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>
for formats - one name<address> per line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 18:50:05 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:50:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating form majordomo question
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060626114650.01dd9a50@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060626114650.01dd9a50@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606260950x579ca3bbw6c985cb653f869eb@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/06, Uthra Rao <urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
> How are the mailing list emails stored in Mailman are they stored in a text
> file or in a database? How can I look at it from the command line? We have
> to migrate all our mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman. I was thinking
> to create new mailing list and then copy/paste all the member email
> addresses from majordomo to Mailman if it is a text file. Could you please
> advice me on this. I would really appreciate your help

In the Admin screens of the Mailman web interface, there's a 'mass
subscribe' box you can use for this.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From cd at lios.apana.org.au  Mon Jun 26 19:01:04 2006
From: cd at lios.apana.org.au (Kralizec Craig)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 03:01:04 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem upgrading from 2.0.11 to 2.1.8 on Solaris 9
	with Python 2.4
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.63.0606270259440.15317@lios.apana.org.au>


Hi everyone,

I'm updating a mailman installation which is currently 2.0.11 running 
under Solaris 9 on a Sun Sparc system

I've compiled mailman-2.1.8 without a problem but when I went to install it, 
it's aborted part-way through the update process with this error:

---- start ----

Updating Mailman 2.0 pending_subscriptions.db database
Traceback (most recent call last):

   File "bin/update", line 789, in ?
     errors = main()
   File "bin/update", line 713, in main
     update_pending()
   File "bin/update", line 592, in update_pending
     addr = data[0].address
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'address'
gmake: *** [update] Error 1

---- stop ----

I made sure that the web server and mail server are turned off before 
trying to install the new version of the software...

Could this be an unknown problem when updating from 2.0.11, or is it 
something more insidious - perhaps a problem with Python itself?

The machine used to have Python 2.2 installed but before starting the 
mailman upgrade I upgraded Python from 2.2 to 2.4. Maybe backing that out 
by re-installing Python 2.2 will help?

Regards,

Craig.



From urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov  Mon Jun 26 19:50:55 2006
From: urao at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Uthra Rao)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:50:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating form majordomo question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606260948460890432b0ac8@msapiro>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060626114650.01dd9a50@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<PC1740200606260948460890432b0ac8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060626134515.01dd80b0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov>

Mark,

Thank you very much for your help. It is good to know that I can use the 
mass subscription feature and upload a text file with email addresses to 
subscribe to a mailing list instead of doing a lot of typing.

UR.




At 12:48 PM 6/26/2006, you wrote:
>Uthra Rao wrote:
> >
> >How are the mailing list emails stored in Mailman are they stored in a text
> >file or in a database?
>
>
>If you don't have a custom member adaptor, they are stored as part of
>the Python pickle that stores all the list information -
>lists/listname/config.pck
>
>
> >How can I look at it from the command line? We have
> >to migrate all our mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman. I was thinking
> >to create new mailing list and then copy/paste all the member email
> >addresses from majordomo to Mailman if it is a text file. Could you please
> >advice me on this. I would really appreciate your help
>
>
>Use the admin Membership Management...->Mass Subscription interface to
>upload (or paste) a plain text file. See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>
>for formats - one name<address> per line.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/urao%40pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 20:57:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:57:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem upgrading from 2.0.11 to 2.1.8 on
	Solaris 9with Python 2.4
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.63.0606270259440.15317@lios.apana.org.au>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606261157530140a7b05ee1@msapiro>

Kralizec Craig wrote:
>
>I'm updating a mailman installation which is currently 2.0.11 running 
>under Solaris 9 on a Sun Sparc system
>
>I've compiled mailman-2.1.8 without a problem but when I went to install it, 
>it's aborted part-way through the update process with this error:
>
>---- start ----
>
>Updating Mailman 2.0 pending_subscriptions.db database
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "bin/update", line 789, in ?
>     errors = main()
>   File "bin/update", line 713, in main
>     update_pending()
>   File "bin/update", line 592, in update_pending
>     addr = data[0].address
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'address'
>gmake: *** [update] Error 1
>
>---- stop ----
>
>I made sure that the web server and mail server are turned off before 
>trying to install the new version of the software...
>
>Could this be an unknown problem when updating from 2.0.11, or is it 
>something more insidious - perhaps a problem with Python itself?


I'm not sure if this is a Mailman issue or if there is some specific
problem with your data/pending.db file. I would have to research the
actual pending.db format for 2.0.11 to answer this for sure, but I
think Mailman is OK.

update is trying to convert a pending subscription request from  2.0.11
format to the current pending.pck per list format and at the point of
the error, data[0] is supposed to be a UserDesc instance and it is a
string.

If you are willing to abandon any unconfirmed subscribe, unsubscribe,
address change or delivery re-enable requests or confirmation of held
messages (I think they'll still be in the admindb web interface), you
can just rename or move aside the data/pending.db file and rerun
'bin/update' which is the only part of the install that didn't
complete.


>The machine used to have Python 2.2 installed but before starting the 
>mailman upgrade I upgraded Python from 2.2 to 2.4. Maybe backing that out 
>by re-installing Python 2.2 will help?


I don't think so.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From demonveen at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 22:00:02 2006
From: demonveen at gmail.com (daniel trejo)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:00:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Securing Mailman's web GUI by using Secure
	HTTP/SSL
Message-ID: <997503340606261300l6afad4ddmf01d19ed5a450072@mail.gmail.com>

I added these lines to apache to force https login,I also modified the
mm_config.py to change the dafault url and ran the withlist script, but when
i put the url on my browser appears a message saying that the redirection
has no end or something like that.

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
 AllowOverride None
 Options +ExecCGI -Includes
 Order allow,deny
 Allow from all
 SSLCipherSuite HIGH:MEDIUM
</Directory>

<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
 AllowOverride None
 Order allow,deny
 Allow from all
 Options FollowSymLinks

</Directory>


Redirect /mailman/ https://name of my server/mailman/


From robertj at linux4free.com  Mon Jun 26 21:48:37 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:48:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] -owner -admin
Message-ID: <200606261948.k5QJmaeT018061@resources.rootsweb.com>

I am trying to change the umbrella member suffix to -admin.  I want -admin
to do the same thing as -owner.  So I changed it, but there is a problem
When I send any messges to -admin, they don't go through.  I get "Uncaught
bounce notification"  But I can still send messages to -owner.  
 
Why doesn't the -admin work?
 
-Rob
 


From robertj at linux4free.com  Mon Jun 26 21:52:15 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:52:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest
Message-ID: <200606261952.k5QJqAeT019099@resources.rootsweb.com>

I need to be able to let users subscribe to both the active list and the
digests.  From what I can see, this can't be done.  Anybody have an idea how
I can accomplish this?
 
 


From robertj at linux4free.com  Mon Jun 26 21:53:23 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:53:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest subscription without password
Message-ID: <200606261953.k5QJrIeT019466@resources.rootsweb.com>

It seems somewhat strange that you can subscribe yourself to a list without
a password, but in order to subscribe to a digest you are required to supply
a password.
 
What would be the best way around this?
 
 


From ricardo at tdwg.org  Mon Jun 26 22:52:49 2006
From: ricardo at tdwg.org (Ricardo Scachetti Pereira)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:52:49 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Information about Mailman v2.1.7.cp2
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606221129240265f5fa6f41@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606221129240265f5fa6f41@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44A04921.6070102@tdwg.org>

    Mark and Patrick,

    Just so you know, the migration of my lists from Mailman v2.1.7.cp2 
down to 2.1.5 went fine.

    Apparently (and luckily for me) version 2.1.7.cp2 doesn't have many 
changes from the main branch, nor from 2.1.5.

    Just in case you are wondering, I'm using MM 2.1.5 because that is 
the latest version maintained by Red Hat for AS 4. It still uses Python 
2.3.4.

    Thanks so very much for all your help.

    Best regards,

Ricardo

   

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>   
>> On 6/22/06, Ricardo Scachetti Pereira <ricardo at tdwg.org> wrote:
>>     
>>>     I searched the announcements lists, Mailman site and Google but I
>>> couldn't find information about the 2.1.7.cp2 release. Where can I find
>>> notes about that release? And what does cp2 stand for?
>>>       
>> .cp2 probably means it's a cPanel version. Which means a lot of us
>> will refuse to help. ;) (There's no telling what cPanel has done to
>> it.) That said, the upgrade shouldn't be too problematic.
>>     
>
> Patrick is correct. Our releases are major.minor.micro (e.g 2.1.7) with
> the possible addition of an alpha/beta/release-candidate (e.g 2.1.7a1,
> 2.1.7b1, 2.1.7rc1). Any '-' or '.' added after the micro version is a
> packager's designation and we generally have no specific information
> about it.
>
> That said, moving lists from one installation to another is generally
> fairly simple. A rough outline is
>
> 1) move the lists/listname/config.pck file.
> 2a) move the archives/private/listname/ directory
> 2b) move the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file
> 3) run fix_url on the list (bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname)
> 4) If desired because of absolute URLs on some archive pages or other
> reasons, rebuild archives with bin/arch --wipe listname
>
> If you are going to do step 4), you can skip step 2a)
>
> If as seems likely, .cp2 is a cPanel mailman, this will be complicated
> by the fact the cPanel list names are of the form 'list_domain' with
> the '_domain' part somewhat hidden. This may require some path name
> translation in the above outline. Also, who knows what non-standard
> list attributes may have been added in the package which might cause
> simply moving the config.pck to fail.
>
>   



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Mon Jun 26 23:09:21 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:09:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Securing Mailman's web GUI by using Secure
	HTTP/SSL
In-Reply-To: <997503340606261300l6afad4ddmf01d19ed5a450072@mail.gmail.com>
References: <997503340606261300l6afad4ddmf01d19ed5a450072@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <136C276F-CFC6-498C-80B5-DB888B10A286@openinfo.co.uk>

On 26 Jun 2006, at 21:00, daniel trejo wrote:

> I added these lines to apache to force https login,I also modified the
> mm_config.py to change the dafault url and ran the withlist script,  
> but when
> i put the url on my browser appears a message saying that the  
> redirection
> has no end or something like that.

What version of Apache are you running?

What other steps have you taken to configure your Apache server to be  
an HTTPS server? For instance VitualHost directives and such or are  
you running separate HTTP and HTTPS server instances?

What exactly is the error response you say you are getting?

This sound more like an Apache configuration problem rather than a  
Mailman problem. have you checked out the documentation available here:

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/
http://www.modssl.org/docs/2.8/ssl_faq.html

>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
>  AllowOverride None
>  Options +ExecCGI -Includes
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
>  SSLCipherSuite HIGH:MEDIUM
> </Directory>
>
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
>  AllowOverride None
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
>  Options FollowSymLinks
>
> </Directory>
>
>
> Redirect /mailman/ https://name of my server/mailman/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> r.barrett%40openinfo.co.uk
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From robertj at linux4free.com  Mon Jun 26 23:27:55 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:27:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest subscription without password
In-Reply-To: <200606261953.k5QJrIeT019466@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <200606262127.k5QLRneT012873@resources.rootsweb.com>

So far I have have got this to work with the -request, but only if I supply
a password.  It wil not work with -subscribe at all for digest mode.  On the
-request, if I supply a password, the user will have the digest bit set.  If
I do not set the password, the digest bit will not be set.

This is not working for me:

>subscribe [$<$PASSWORD$>$] [digest|nodigest] [address=$<$ADDRESS$>$]
>
>    * Subscribe to this mailing list. Your password must be given to
unsubscribe or change your options, but if you omit >the password, one will
be generated for you. You may be periodically reminded of your password.
>
>      The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no quotes!).
If you wish to subscribe an address other than the address you sent this
request from, you may specify `address=$<$ADDRESS$>$' (no brackets around
the email address, and no quotes!) 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+robertj=linux4free.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+robertj=linux4free.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Rob Jackson
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 1:53 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest subscription without password

It seems somewhat strange that you can subscribe yourself to a list without
a password, but in order to subscribe to a digest you are required to supply
a password.
 
What would be the best way around this?
 
 
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/robertj%40linux4free.co
m

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Mon Jun 26 23:27:49 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:27:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Securing Mailman's web GUI by using Secure
	HTTP/SSL
In-Reply-To: <997503340606261300l6afad4ddmf01d19ed5a450072@mail.gmail.com>
References: <997503340606261300l6afad4ddmf01d19ed5a450072@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0FBB077-7C57-4DEF-BC56-65B92AEA54AF@openinfo.co.uk>


On 26 Jun 2006, at 21:00, daniel trejo wrote:

> I added these lines to apache to force https login,I also modified the
> mm_config.py to change the dafault url and ran the withlist script,  
> but when
> i put the url on my browser appears a message saying that the  
> redirection
> has no end or something like that.
>

Further thought.

The browser is telling you that when it requested the URL https:// 
name of my server/mailman/ it was redirected to the URL https://name  
of my server/mailman/, which redirected it to the URL https://name of  
my server/mailman/, which redirected it to the URL https://name of my  
server/mailman/ ...

Browser are programmed to get bored with this infinite loop and quit  
after 10 or so consecutive redirects back to the same URL.

As to what to do, see my previous response. Much depends on what  
version of Apache ypu are using and the rest of its confiugration.

With Apache2 consider using mod_rewrite and the RewriteRule and  
RewriteCond directives rather than using the Redirect directive. That  
way you can make the redirection conditional on the request's scheme  
so that redirection only occurs when an HTTP request is made while  
the request is actually serviced if an HTTPS request is made.

Personally I would use separate HTTP and HTTPS VirtualHost's to make  
the problem disappear.

> ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
>  AllowOverride None
>  Options +ExecCGI -Includes
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
>  SSLCipherSuite HIGH:MEDIUM
> </Directory>
>
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
>  AllowOverride None
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
>  Options FollowSymLinks
>
> </Directory>
>
>
> Redirect /mailman/ https://name of my server/mailman/
> ------------------------------------------------------



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 23:47:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:47:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest
In-Reply-To: <200606261952.k5QJqAeT019099@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062614475403755d7c0e2d@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I need to be able to let users subscribe to both the active list and the
>digests.  From what I can see, this can't be done.  Anybody have an idea how
>I can accomplish this?


With current Mailman, you need to subscribe two addresses, maybe
user at example.com and user at mail.example.com (or user at smtp.example.com
or ??) would do.

Just for curiousity, why do you need this?.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robertj at linux4free.com  Mon Jun 26 23:50:15 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:50:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062614475403755d7c0e2d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200606262150.k5QLo8eT018400@resources.rootsweb.com>

Our current list software enables some users...mostly admins to subscribe to
both.  They tend to like that functionality, but I will see if they can do
without.

Thanks
-Rob
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 3:48 PM
To: Rob Jackson; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I need to be able to let users subscribe to both the active list and 
>the digests.  From what I can see, this can't be done.  Anybody have an 
>idea how I can accomplish this?


With current Mailman, you need to subscribe two addresses, maybe
user at example.com and user at mail.example.com (or user at smtp.example.com or ??)
would do.

Just for curiousity, why do you need this?.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 26 23:55:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:55:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest subscription without password
In-Reply-To: <200606262127.k5QLRneT012873@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062614552809539833fd15@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:

>So far I have have got this to work with the -request, but only if I supply
>a password.  It wil not work with -subscribe at all for digest mode.  On the
>-request, if I supply a password, the user will have the digest bit set.  If
>I do not set the password, the digest bit will not be set.
>
>This is not working for me:
>
>>subscribe [$<$PASSWORD$>$] [digest|nodigest] [address=$<$ADDRESS$>$]

This is a fundamental flaw in the design of the request. There is no
syntactic way to tell whether

subscribe digest

is a request to subscribe in digest mode with a generated password or a
request to subscribe in default mode with a password of 'digest'. Of
course, we could disallow 'digest' and 'nodigest' as passwords and
assume they must be modes, but no one has done that fix.

That's a problem in general with positional options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 00:00:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:00:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest
In-Reply-To: <200606262150.k5QLo8eT018400@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060626150049010903cb569e@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:

>Our current list software enables some users...mostly admins to subscribe to
>both.  They tend to like that functionality, but I will see if they can do
>without.

Yes, I can understand the function for the admin. Can they set up
forwarding addresses somewhere?

BTW, the ability to subscribe to both message and digest is on the to
do list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robertj at linux4free.com  Tue Jun 27 00:02:47 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:02:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060626150049010903cb569e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200606262202.k5QM2eeT021172@resources.rootsweb.com>

They will just lose that function for now, glad to hear it is on the todo
list.

Thanks
-Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:01 PM
To: Rob Jackson; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe to both list and digest

Rob Jackson wrote:

>Our current list software enables some users...mostly admins to 
>subscribe to both.  They tend to like that functionality, but I will 
>see if they can do without.

Yes, I can understand the function for the admin. Can they set up forwarding
addresses somewhere?

BTW, the ability to subscribe to both message and digest is on the to do
list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 00:17:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:17:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Securing Mailman's web GUI by using
	SecureHTTP/SSL
In-Reply-To: <997503340606261300l6afad4ddmf01d19ed5a450072@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060626151709021803cb56e3@msapiro>

daniel trejo wrote:

>Redirect /mailman/ https://name of my server/mailman/

I think this is your problem.

The FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>
recommends 

RedirectPermanent /mailman/ https://name of my server/mailman/

which may or may not have the same problem. You need to insure that
whatever redirect you do applies only to http schemes and not https.
You may need to use rewrite rules to accomplish this.

When you work it out, please let us know the solution so we can update
the FAQ if necessary.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 00:18:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:18:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] -owner -admin
In-Reply-To: <200606261948.k5QJmaeT018061@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060626151858064003cb58ba@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I am trying to change the umbrella member suffix to -admin.  I want -admin
>to do the same thing as -owner.  So I changed it, but there is a problem
>When I send any messges to -admin, they don't go through.  I get "Uncaught
>bounce notification"  But I can still send messages to -owner.  
> 
>Why doesn't the -admin work?

Because -admin is a (deprecated) synonym for -bounces, not for -owner.
Why don't you want to use -owner?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robertj at linux4free.com  Tue Jun 27 00:30:00 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:30:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] -owner -admin
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060626151858064003cb58ba@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200606262229.k5QMTteT027094@resources.rootsweb.com>

That works.  I just made -admin go to owner in the alias file, and it works.
Old users are used to mailing -admin for list problems, and we wanted to
make the transition from our current list to mailman as simple as possible
for the subscribers.

Thanks
-Rob
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:19 PM
To: Rob Jackson; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] -owner -admin

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I am trying to change the umbrella member suffix to -admin.  I want 
>-admin to do the same thing as -owner.  So I changed it, but there is a 
>problem When I send any messges to -admin, they don't go through.  I 
>get "Uncaught bounce notification"  But I can still send messages to
-owner.
> 
>Why doesn't the -admin work?

Because -admin is a (deprecated) synonym for -bounces, not for -owner.
Why don't you want to use -owner?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailman at pcez.com  Tue Jun 27 00:55:09 2006
From: mailman at pcez.com (User for Mailman mail list)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to Verizon users.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0606261527180.28745-100000@mail.pcez.com>


Banging my head against the wall ( and it hurts..)

On the different list from our Mailman mail list server, the mail goes out
fine except for users with a "verizon.net" address. Here is a typical
syslog entry:

Jun 26 12:57:29 secure sm-mta[13001]: k5QJv2Gt012804:
to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176103,
relay=relay.verizon.net. [206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable


But if I send that user an email from that same server (but not from
Mailman) the log shows:

Jun 26 14:23:05 secure sendmail[15184]: k5QLN5UB015181:
to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=120295,
relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k5QLN5kD015185 Message accepted for delivery)

Jun 26 14:23:12 secure sm-mta[15195]: k5QLN5kD015185: to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:07,
xdelay=00:00:07, mailer=esmtp, pri=120469, relay=relay.verizon.net.
[206.46.232.11], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0 Ok.)


I'm at a loss. All the other mail gets delivered properly but not the
verizon.net mail.

This is a Debian system with Mailman version 2.1.5-8 (Debian's stable version).

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ken



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 01:31:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:31:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to Verizon users.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0606261527180.28745-100000@mail.pcez.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606261631160593f2286aa1@msapiro>

User for Mailman mail list wrote:
>
>Banging my head against the wall ( and it hurts..)
>
>On the different list from our Mailman mail list server, the mail goes out
>fine except for users with a "verizon.net" address. Here is a typical
>syslog entry:
>
>Jun 26 12:57:29 secure sm-mta[13001]: k5QJv2Gt012804:
>to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176103,
>relay=relay.verizon.net. [206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
>
>
>But if I send that user an email from that same server (but not from
>Mailman) the log shows:
>
>Jun 26 14:23:05 secure sendmail[15184]: k5QLN5UB015181:
>to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=120295,
>relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k5QLN5kD015185 Message accepted for delivery)
>
>Jun 26 14:23:12 secure sm-mta[15195]: k5QLN5kD015185: to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:07,
>xdelay=00:00:07, mailer=esmtp, pri=120469, relay=relay.verizon.net.
>[206.46.232.11], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0 Ok.)
>
>
>I'm at a loss. All the other mail gets delivered properly but not the
>verizon.net mail.

Verizon doesn't like something in the transaction from Mailman.

Since it's the same server, we can assume the HELO/EHLO is the same so
it's either the envelope sender (MAIL FROM command) or something in
the message data.

Most likely Verizon doesn't like the envelope sender
'listname-bounces at list.domain.tld.

You could try manually sending a normal message with that envelope
sender and see if it is rejected.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From eje4 at cornell.edu  Mon Jun 26 17:55:03 2006
From: eje4 at cornell.edu (Eric Evans)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:55:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about strange Mailman glitch
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060626114306.00c02270@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu>

Hello,

A while back I encountered a strange problem with Mailman, which we 
eventually got resolved, but I don't know why.  Although Mailman is working 
fine now I'm still wondering what the real nature of the problem was and 
I'm hoping that some of the Mailman experts on this list might be able to 
provide some insight.

We had already been running Mailman on our Sun for several months without 
any difficulties.  Then, we had an unexpected power outage in our 
building.  The Sun that was running the Mailman server lost power 
unexpectedly.  When it came back up, Mailman would no longer send out 
mail.  All attempts to send mail to mailing lists through Mailman resulted 
in the sendmail error message "name or service not known" showing up in the 
smtp error log file.  However I was able to send messages directly through 
sendmail, so I know that sendmail was working properly.  I talked to a 
Mailman expert who suggested looking at the my mm_cfg.py file.  The only 
statement that I had in there was a LOCALHOST statement, with the IP 
address of the local host, i.e. the Mailman server.  My correspondent the 
Mailman expert recommended deleting this statement from the mm_cfg.py, so I 
did, and then Mailman started working again!  But what's very puzzling is 
that Mailman was working for us for a long time with this LOCALHOST 
statement in there, and we didn't have any problems with it.  So why is it 
that this LOCALHOST statement was not causing a problem for us before the 
power outage but DID cause a problem after the power outage?  Anyone have 
any thoughts on this?

Thanks very much,
Eric
  



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 03:16:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:16:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about strange Mailman glitch
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060626114306.00c02270@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606261816240203f6896f03@msapiro>

Eric Evans wrote:
>
>Then, we had an unexpected power outage in our 
>building.  The Sun that was running the Mailman server lost power 
>unexpectedly.  When it came back up, Mailman would no longer send out 
>mail.  All attempts to send mail to mailing lists through Mailman resulted 
>in the sendmail error message "name or service not known" showing up in the 
>smtp error log file.  However I was able to send messages directly through 
>sendmail, so I know that sendmail was working properly.  I talked to a 
>Mailman expert who suggested looking at the my mm_cfg.py file.  The only 
>statement that I had in there was a LOCALHOST statement, with the IP 
>address of the local host, i.e. the Mailman server.


Are you sure you don't mean

SMTPHOST = 'nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn'

rather than

LOCALHOST = 'nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn'

The latter would do nothing because mm_cfg.LOCALHOST is not referenced
in Mailman.


>My correspondent the 
>Mailman expert recommended deleting this statement from the mm_cfg.py, so I 
>did, and then Mailman started working again!  But what's very puzzling is 
>that Mailman was working for us for a long time with this LOCALHOST 
>statement in there, and we didn't have any problems with it.  So why is it 
>that this LOCALHOST statement was not causing a problem for us before the 
>power outage but DID cause a problem after the power outage?  Anyone have 
>any thoughts on this?


There are several possibilities. First, maybe someone added

SMTPHOST = 'nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn'

to mm_cfg.py but never restarted Mailman (bin/mailmanctl restart).
Thus, the outgoing queue runner continued to use the previous setting
(perhaps the default SMTPHOST = 'localhost') until something else (the
power outage and restart) caused it to reload mm_cfg.

Possibly some change was made elswhere in the system that wasn't
effective until the power outage and restart caused that changed
information to finally be read.

If you want to actually do some small tests to find out why 

SMTPHOST = 'nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn'

doesn't work, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>
for some debugging techniques.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 03:46:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:46:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about strange Mailman glitch
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606261816240203f6896f03@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606261846350609f68970a4@msapiro>

Out of curiousity, I looked and found the original thread. The last 3
messages in the thread are the most relevant. The first of these 3 is
at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-November/047813.html>

Actually, the part of that old thread that is most relevant here is the
following quote from the last post in the thread:

<quote>
You said you had

SMTPHOST = '<128.253.175.139>'


and I remarked

>>Which is probably using sendmail and not trying to connect to an SMTP
>>server at <128.253.175.139> (which BTW is if anything, a name and not
>>an IP address).


I.e '<128.253.175.139>' is not the same as '128.253.175.139'. The
latter is an IP address and the former is a name. Maybe something in
your DNS or other configuration changed so the name
'<128.253.175.139>' could no longer be resolved.
</quote>


So I think either

SMTPHOST = '<128.253.175.139>'

was added to mm_cfg.py and Mailman was never restarted until after the
power outage (this would not be unusual - the Mailman that runs my
production lists has been running for about a year without restart - a
sad comment from a Mailman developer, but that particular server is
out of my control).

Or possibly some change was made elsewhere that caused the name
'<128.253.175.139>' to stop working, but that change wasn't effective
until the system restarted after the power outage.

The moral here is always do 'bin/mailmanctl restart' after any
mm_cfg.py change or you might be in for an unexpected surprise down
the road.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Tue Jun 27 04:56:25 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:56:25 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062608235206874af57b03@msapiro>
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC553992130@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Hi Mark,

 

I have created the public directories in the archives and it works well
now, but however when I clicked on "List Archives", it will go to the
link http://mail.mys.avagotech.net/pipermail/venus (venus is one of the
mailing list), the error is "Forbidden...you don't have permission to
access /pipermail/venus/ on this server".

 

One more thing is that how may I change every subscriber email from
xxx at agilent.com to xxx at avagotech.com 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Ong, Hai Seong

IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer

Research and Development

Navigation Products Division

Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd

Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824

Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 11:24 PM
To: ONG,HAI-SEONG
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman

 

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:

 

>Thanks for the prompt reply, Mark.

> 

>I check my archives folder and what I see is just

>"archives/private/spark/....."

> 

>Things which I observed;

> 

>1) There is no public folder in the archives.

>2) There is only "spark"(which is one of the mailing lists) in private

>folder.

 

I don't understand why these things are missing, but you must have an

archives/public/ directory, and an archives/private/<list>/ directory

and an archives/private/<list>.mbox/ directory for every <list> in

lists/. These directories must all be in the mailman group and have

permissions 2775 (rwxrwsr-x). The archives/private/ directory itslf

should have permissions 2770 or 2771 (rwxrws--- or rwxrws--x) and also

be in the mailman group.

 

The archives/private/ and archives/public/ directories are created by

the Mailman installation process and the archives/private/<list>/ and

archives/private/<list>.mbox/ directories are created when the list is

created.

 

You will have to create the missing directories.

 

You also might need to create the default

archives/private/<list>/index.html file for those lists that don't

have one. Creating a 'test' list should create one as an example.

 

-- 

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,

San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

 



From cd at lios.apana.org.au  Tue Jun 27 05:01:06 2006
From: cd at lios.apana.org.au (Kralizec Craig)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:01:06 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem upgrading from 2.0.11 to 2.1.8 on
 Solaris 9with Python 2.4
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606261157530140a7b05ee1@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606261157530140a7b05ee1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.63.0606271057440.26019@lios.apana.org.au>

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> update is trying to convert a pending subscription request from  2.0.11
> format to the current pending.pck per list format and at the point of
> the error, data[0] is supposed to be a UserDesc instance and it is a
> string.
>
> If you are willing to abandon any unconfirmed subscribe, unsubscribe,
> address change or delivery re-enable requests or confirmation of held
> messages (I think they'll still be in the admindb web interface), you
> can just rename or move aside the data/pending.db file and rerun
> 'bin/update' which is the only part of the install that didn't
> complete.

The data/pending_subscriptions.db file is only 96 bytes. I've renamed it 
to something different and the install has worked this time. Will do the 
things that the UPGRADING file says to look at and make sure the lists are 
still working.

Craig.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 05:53:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC553992130@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606262053280296f6896f64@msapiro>

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
>
>I have created the public directories in the archives and it works well
>now, but however when I clicked on "List Archives", it will go to the
>link http://mail.mys.avagotech.net/pipermail/venus (venus is one of the
>mailing list), the error is "Forbidden...you don't have permission to
>access /pipermail/venus/ on this server".


Assuming Apache, you may need to add the FollowSymLinks option to the
archives/public/ directory or you may need to add o+x to the
permissions on archives/private/. See the apache error log for
possible additional info.


>One more thing is that how may I change every subscriber email from
>xxx at agilent.com to xxx at avagotech.com


Without a knowledge of Python and Mailman to create a withlist script,
see 'bin/list_members --help' and 'bin/clone_member --help'.
Basically, you can use bin/list_members to make a list of the members,
edit that to delete all the non xxx at agilent.com addresses then edit
further to create lines like

bin/clone_member -r xxx at agilent.com xxx at avagotech.com

and run that as a shell script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com  Tue Jun 27 07:57:46 2006
From: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com (ONG,HAI-SEONG)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:57:46 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606262053280296f6896f64@msapiro>
Message-ID: <671DC5B6BBF61C4B837EE5D66B5AC55399247C@WSGPMBX01.AVAGOTECH.NET>

Thanks again for your guidance, Mark.

There is one last thing, I tried to subscribe to a mailing list and I
put the Subscription rules as "Confirm only". The problem is there's no
email sent to me after I click the button "Subscribe".

Furthermore, when I send and email to venus at mail.mys.avagotech.net and
put the title as "Testing", there is no email received by all the
subscribers?

Any idea?



Best Regards,
 
Ong, Hai Seong
IC Design CAD Tools System Engineer
Research and Development
Navigation Products Division
Avago Technologies (M) Sdn Bhd
Direct Line: 6-04-610-2824
Email: hai-seong.ong at avagotech.com
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:53 AM
To: ONG,HAI-SEONG
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding Mailman

ONG,HAI-SEONG wrote:
>
>I have created the public directories in the archives and it works well
>now, but however when I clicked on "List Archives", it will go to the
>link http://mail.mys.avagotech.net/pipermail/venus (venus is one of the
>mailing list), the error is "Forbidden...you don't have permission to
>access /pipermail/venus/ on this server".


Assuming Apache, you may need to add the FollowSymLinks option to the
archives/public/ directory or you may need to add o+x to the
permissions on archives/private/. See the apache error log for
possible additional info.


>One more thing is that how may I change every subscriber email from
>xxx at agilent.com to xxx at avagotech.com


Without a knowledge of Python and Mailman to create a withlist script,
see 'bin/list_members --help' and 'bin/clone_member --help'.
Basically, you can use bin/list_members to make a list of the members,
edit that to delete all the non xxx at agilent.com addresses then edit
further to create lines like

bin/clone_member -r xxx at agilent.com xxx at avagotech.com

and run that as a shell script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Tue Jun 27 08:48:40 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:18:40 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.8 with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062608232409064af57bc2@msapiro>
References: <6b16fb4c0606252322r716cfaf6j729414a4e739b47@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006062608232409064af57bc2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606262348w198de32u3491815ec2ebf957@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Kaushal Shriyanwrote:
>
> >On 6/25/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> More specifically, are you subscribing by web or email? Are you
> >> confirming by web or email? After you confirm, is the address
> >> subscribed even though you don't get the welcome?
> >>
> >> In other words, Is the problem that email doesn't get to Mailman at all
> >> or is it something else?
> >
> >I am subscribing the emailid's using the web interface, I have noticed
> >one thing in
> >the Mailman(2.1.8) logs/subscribe, It says pending :(
> >
> >Jun 24 20:33:20 2006 (15107) test: pending Kaushal Shriyan
> ><kaushal at mydomain.com>  127.0.0.1
> <snip>
>
>
>
> These log entries were made when the confirmation was sent to you.
>
>
> >Please let me know whether you need more info on this issue,
>
>
> I'm guessing at this point that no mail is being successfully delivered
> to Mailman. Have you installed aliases in sendmail's alias file and
> run 'newalias'?
>
> Try confirming via web. Does that work?
>
> When you reply to the confirmation by email, do you get any kind of
> response - an undeliverable notice? What's in the sendmail logs?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

Hi Mark

> I'm guessing at this point that no mail is being successfully delivered
> to Mailman. Have you installed aliases in sendmail's alias file and
> run 'newalias'?

I have added the following aliases in the /etc/aliases file and run
newaliases next

## test mailing list
test:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"

>
> Try confirming via web. Does that work?

How do i confirm using web interface ??

>
> When you reply to the confirmation by email, do you get any kind of
> response - an undeliverable notice? What's in the sendmail logs?
>

I dont get any undeliverable notice, I get the below information in
the sendmail maillog

Jun 27 12:01:08 mydomain sendmail[14891]: k5R6V8aF014890:
to=<test-request at mydomain.com>, ctladdr=<contact at mydomain.com>
(504/504), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=32260,
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun 27 12:01:08 mydomain imapd[14892]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:01:10 mydomain imapd[14894]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:01:10 mydomain imapd[14894]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:01:10 mydomain imapd[14894]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:01:45 mydomain imapd[14898]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:01:45 mydomain imapd[14898]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:01:45 mydomain imapd[14898]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:04:53 mydomain sendmail[14952]: k5R6YraJ014952:
from=<test-bounces at mydomain.com>, size=1485, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.0.1151390093.14951.test at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Jun 27 12:04:53 mydomain sendmail[14953]: k5R6YraJ014952:
to=<mailman-owner at mydomain.com>, ctladdr=<test-bounces at mydomain.com>
(501/501), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=139685,
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun 27 12:04:53 mydomain sendmail[14954]: k5R6YrdR014954:
from=<test-bounces at mydomain.com>, size=1805, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.1.1151390093.14951.test at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Jun 27 12:04:53 mydomain sendmail[14956]: k5R6YrdR014954:
to=<kaushal at mydomain.com>, ctladdr=<test-bounces at mydomain.com>
(501/501), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=139999,
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun 27 12:05:37 mydomain sendmail[14964]: k5R6Za1v014964:
from=<test-bounces at mydomain.com>, size=1603, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.0.1151390136.14963.test at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Jun 27 12:05:37 mydomain sendmail[14965]: k5R6Za1v014964:
to=<contact at mydomain.com>, ctladdr=<test-bounces at mydomain.com>
(501/501), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=139796,
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun 27 12:05:57 mydomain imapd[14968]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:05:57 mydomain imapd[14968]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:05:57 mydomain imapd[14968]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:03 mydomain imapd[14970]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:06:03 mydomain imapd[14970]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:03 mydomain imapd[14970]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:09 mydomain imapd[14971]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:06:09 mydomain imapd[14971]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:09 mydomain imapd[14971]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:15 mydomain imapd[14972]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:06:15 mydomain imapd[14972]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:16 mydomain imapd[14972]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:23 mydomain sendmail[14973]: k5R6aNlg014973:
Authentication-Warning: mydomain.com: apache set sender to
contact at mydomain.com using -f
Jun 27 12:06:23 mydomain sendmail[14973]: k5R6aNlg014973:
from=contact at mydomain.com, size=1771, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<59320.127.0.0.1.1151390183.squirrel at mydomain.com>,
relay=apache at localhost
Jun 27 12:06:23 mydomain sendmail[14974]: STARTTLS=server,
relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1], version=TLSv1/SSLv3,
verify=NO, cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
Jun 27 12:06:23 mydomain sendmail[14973]: STARTTLS=client,
relay=[127.0.0.1], version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
Jun 27 12:06:24 mydomain sendmail[14974]: k5R6aNVB014974:
from=<contact at mydomain.com>, size=1994, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<59320.127.0.0.1.1151390183.squirrel at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Jun 27 12:06:24 mydomain sendmail[14973]: k5R6aNlg014973:
to=test-request at mydomain.com, ctladdr=contact at mydomain.com (504/504),
delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=relay, pri=31771,
relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k5R6aNVB014974
Message accepted for delivery)
Jun 27 12:06:24 mydomain imapd[14976]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:06:24 mydomain imapd[14976]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:24 mydomain sendmail[14975]: k5R6aNVB014974:
to=<test-request at mydomain.com>, ctladdr=<contact at mydomain.com>
(504/504), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=32260,
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun 27 12:06:24 mydomain imapd[14976]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:25 mydomain imapd[14978]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:06:25 mydomain imapd[14978]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:25 mydomain imapd[14978]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:42 mydomain imapd[14980]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:06:43 mydomain imapd[14980]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:06:43 mydomain imapd[14980]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:09:08 mydomain imapd[14997]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:09:08 mydomain imapd[14997]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:09:08 mydomain imapd[14997]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:14:09 mydomain imapd[15022]: imap service init from 125.22.46.19
Jun 27 12:14:09 mydomain imapd[15022]: Login user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]
Jun 27 12:14:09 mydomain imapd[15022]: Logout user=contact
host=mydomain.com [125.22.46.19]

Please let me know if you need any additional information from me on this issue

Thanks and Regards

Kaushal


From therods at gmail.com  Tue Jun 27 10:18:00 2006
From: therods at gmail.com (huang mingyou)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:18:00 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive can't display gb2312 encode mail
Message-ID: <40b6d52e0606270118x17801158ia2c0d0133de3440b@mail.gmail.com>

hello,list.
        I use the mailman 2.1.8 , and the mail archive is pipermail
0.09,OS is Debian sarge,python Verizon is 2.3 .
        When I look the mail list archive in web,the gb2312 mail can't
display correct,but the utf-8 can display . what's wrong,and how to
resolve it.  please help me!

-- 
Huang Mingyou


From chris at webarchitects.co.uk  Tue Jun 27 11:33:15 2006
From: chris at webarchitects.co.uk (Chris Croome)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:33:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman locking up, seems to be Spamassassin related
Message-ID: <20060627093315.GA16135@webarchitects.co.uk>

Hi

One a CentOS 4 box, running Mailman that comes with the distro, I'm
seeing locks up every now and then -- all the lists on the machine stop
processing mail.

When this happens a restart gets things moving again.

This is the error that is written to /var/log/mailman/error:

 Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) Uncaught runner exception: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
 Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in process
    score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in check_message
    res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 123, in check
    response = fp.readline()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 338, in readline
    data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
 error: (4, 'Interrupted system call')

 Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) SHUNTING: 1151298261.692024+45c6f4028caac564c9880d1ac3f73dca4b88bfb1

Mailman has been set up to work with Spamassassin using the instructions
here:

  http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/

As far as I can tell the only thing that this involves is this line
being added to /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py:

  GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

(I didn't set this machine up however...).

Does anyone have any ideas what could be going wrong here and what might
be don't to fix it...?

Thanks

Chris

-- 
Chris Croome                               <chris at webarchitects.co.uk>
web design                             http://www.webarchitects.co.uk/ 
web content management                               http://mkdoc.com/   


From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Tue Jun 27 13:41:01 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:41:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman locking up,
	seems to be Spamassassin related
In-Reply-To: <20060627093315.GA16135@webarchitects.co.uk>
References: <20060627093315.GA16135@webarchitects.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E455DF78-574D-4785-A0B5-E40A450BE542@openinfo.co.uk>


On 27 Jun 2006, at 10:33, Chris Croome wrote:

> Hi
>
> One a CentOS 4 box, running Mailman that comes with the distro, I'm
> seeing locks up every now and then -- all the lists on the machine  
> stop
> processing mail.
>
> When this happens a restart gets things moving again.
>
> This is the error that is written to /var/log/mailman/error:
>
>  Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) Uncaught runner exception: (4,  
> 'Interrupted system call')
>  Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in  
> _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in  
> _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line  
> 130, in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line  
> 153, in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line  
> 76, in process
>     score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line  
> 62, in check_message
>     res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 123, in  
> check
>     response = fp.readline()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 338, in readline
>     data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
>  error: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
>
>  Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) SHUNTING: 1151298261.692024 
> +45c6f4028caac564c9880d1ac3f73dca4b88bfb1
>
> Mailman has been set up to work with Spamassassin using the  
> instructions
> here:
>
>   http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
>
> As far as I can tell the only thing that this involves is this line
> being added to /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py:
>
>   GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
>
> (I didn't set this machine up however...).
>
> Does anyone have any ideas what could be going wrong here and what  
> might
> be don't to fix it...?
>

I do not use this myself but a quick look at the code available at  
the site you reference above shows that the addition to the Mailman  
pipeline is synchronously passing the message to an external/  
separate process for checking and then awaiting its response.

That pipeline is operated by the IncomingRunner of which there is  
usually only one such queue runner. Hence if there is any delay in  
the external SpamAssassin processing a message all other incoming  
messages will just wait in the queue.

The code communicating with the checking process does not appear to  
protect itself with any timeouts so if the external process fails to  
respond for prolonged periods then your Mailman system will simply  
appear to lock up as far as processing incoming messages is  
concerned. In effect it will lockup the entire Mailman system as  
without new messages to process, the other queue runners have nothing  
to do.

Personally, I would not adopt this approach to running SpamAssassin.  
But if I were to use this approach I would re-engineer the queue  
runner/pipeline to allow multiple instances of the external checking  
process to be utilised and add some timeout protection.

But better, I would integrate SpamAssassin into the MTA delivering to  
the Mailman server. We use the latter approach so that unchecked mail  
never gets near Mailman (or any other MTA/MDA/MUA on our site). This  
should give much higher levels of concurrency when checking incoming  
than this serial approach with Spamassassin in the Mailman pipeline.  
This is in fact what we do.

Incidentally, we also use this check all the mail going off-site from  
our systems via the MTA so that we can avoid any infected machine in  
our network passing its problem on to the outside world.

Maybe you should discuss the problem with the author of the  
Spamassassin integration code.

> Thanks
>
> Chris
>
> -- 
> Chris Croome                               <chris at webarchitects.co.uk>
> web design                             http://www.webarchitects.co.uk/
> web content management                               http://mkdoc.com/



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Tue Jun 27 14:06:49 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:06:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman locking up,
	seems to be Spamassassin related
In-Reply-To: <E455DF78-574D-4785-A0B5-E40A450BE542@openinfo.co.uk>
References: <20060627093315.GA16135@webarchitects.co.uk>
	<E455DF78-574D-4785-A0B5-E40A450BE542@openinfo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C06B066B-B1A1-4505-956C-4356FEFAEE61@openinfo.co.uk>

Further to my earlier comments, you might be able to alleviate some  
of the problems with your integration of Spamassassin with Mailman by  
having multiple IncomingRunners. To do this, see the comments  
adjacent to the definition of QRUNNERS in your Defaults.py. You could  
redefine QRUNNERS in you mm_cfg.py and increase the count of  
IncomingRunners in that redefinition. But beware, multiple instances  
of the same Runner type simply split the contents of the queue it  
works on between them by filename slices. A stalled IncomingRunner  
instance will still act as a road block for all those messages in the  
incoming queue that the it is responsible for; another runner  
instance cannot take over those blocked files. Spotting a jammed  
IncomingRunner will be quite difficult. At least when a single  
IncomingRunner is jammed it is more obvious.

On 27 Jun 2006, at 12:41, Richard Barrett wrote:

>
> On 27 Jun 2006, at 10:33, Chris Croome wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> One a CentOS 4 box, running Mailman that comes with the distro, I'm
>> seeing locks up every now and then -- all the lists on the machine
>> stop
>> processing mail.
>>
>> When this happens a restart gets things moving again.
>>
>> This is the error that is written to /var/log/mailman/error:
>>
>>  Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) Uncaught runner exception: (4,
>> 'Interrupted system call')
>>  Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in
>> _oneloop
>>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in
>> _onefile
>>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line
>> 130, in _dispose
>>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line
>> 153, in _dopipeline
>>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line
>> 76, in process
>>     score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line
>> 62, in check_message
>>     res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 123, in
>> check
>>     response = fp.readline()
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 338, in readline
>>     data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
>>  error: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
>>
>>  Jun 26 12:04:58 2006 (28052) SHUNTING: 1151298261.692024
>> +45c6f4028caac564c9880d1ac3f73dca4b88bfb1
>>
>> Mailman has been set up to work with Spamassassin using the
>> instructions
>> here:
>>
>>   http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
>>
>> As far as I can tell the only thing that this involves is this line
>> being added to /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py:
>>
>>   GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
>>
>> (I didn't set this machine up however...).
>>
>> Does anyone have any ideas what could be going wrong here and what
>> might
>> be don't to fix it...?
>>
>
> I do not use this myself but a quick look at the code available at
> the site you reference above shows that the addition to the Mailman
> pipeline is synchronously passing the message to an external/
> separate process for checking and then awaiting its response.
>
> That pipeline is operated by the IncomingRunner of which there is
> usually only one such queue runner. Hence if there is any delay in
> the external SpamAssassin processing a message all other incoming
> messages will just wait in the queue.
>
> The code communicating with the checking process does not appear to
> protect itself with any timeouts so if the external process fails to
> respond for prolonged periods then your Mailman system will simply
> appear to lock up as far as processing incoming messages is
> concerned. In effect it will lockup the entire Mailman system as
> without new messages to process, the other queue runners have nothing
> to do.
>
> Personally, I would not adopt this approach to running SpamAssassin.
> But if I were to use this approach I would re-engineer the queue
> runner/pipeline to allow multiple instances of the external checking
> process to be utilised and add some timeout protection.
>
> But better, I would integrate SpamAssassin into the MTA delivering to
> the Mailman server. We use the latter approach so that unchecked mail
> never gets near Mailman (or any other MTA/MDA/MUA on our site). This
> should give much higher levels of concurrency when checking incoming
> than this serial approach with Spamassassin in the Mailman pipeline.
> This is in fact what we do.
>
> Incidentally, we also use this check all the mail going off-site from
> our systems via the MTA so that we can avoid any infected machine in
> our network passing its problem on to the outside world.
>
> Maybe you should discuss the problem with the author of the
> Spamassassin integration code.
>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -- 
>> Chris Croome                                
>> <chris at webarchitects.co.uk>
>> web design                             http:// 
>> www.webarchitects.co.uk/
>> web content management                               http:// 
>> mkdoc.com/
>


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Jun 27 17:39:59 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:39:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to Verizon users.
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net>'
	dated: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:31:16 -0700
Message-ID: <200606271539.k5RFdxNn015791@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

User for Mailman mail list wrote:
>>
>>Banging my head against the wall ( and it hurts..)
>>
>>On the different list from our Mailman mail list server, the mail goes out
>>fine except for users with a "verizon.net" address. Here is a typical
>>syslog entry:
>>
>>Jun 26 12:57:29 secure sm-mta[13001]: k5QJv2Gt012804:
>>to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176103,
>>relay=relay.verizon.net. [206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
>>
>>
>>But if I send that user an email from that same server (but not from
>>Mailman) the log shows:
>>
>>Jun 26 14:23:05 secure sendmail[15184]: k5QLN5UB015181:
>>to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=120295,
>>relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k5QLN5kD015185 Message accepted for delivery)
>>
>>Jun 26 14:23:12 secure sm-mta[15195]: k5QLN5kD015185: to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:07,
>>xdelay=00:00:07, mailer=esmtp, pri=120469, relay=relay.verizon.net.
>>[206.46.232.11], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0 Ok.)
>>
>>
>>I'm at a loss. All the other mail gets delivered properly but not the
>>verizon.net mail.

And Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> replied:

> Verizon doesn't like something in the transaction from Mailman.

I have had problems in the past sending mail to verizon.net.  I could
not even send mail to postmaster at verizon.net.  I believe that Verizon
has some anti-spam filter that does not accept a lot of legitimate mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue Jun 27 17:51:23 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install/email confirmation not working
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006062313122000316d659553@msapiro>
References: <27572d930606231257o674e6678xac7266246893fcd3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006062313122000316d659553@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930606270851l4ce590fdj6595fec701456436@mail.gmail.com>

There is nothing in the logs.

It turns out that Postfix is not accepting any mail from outside our domain.
I have messed around with it and Googled and so forth and the only possible
solution that I see is to delete Sendmail and Postfix and recompile from
source. It was from a Red Hat installation and it appears that maybe RH did
something unconventional with the Postfix compile. We'll see.

On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >On 6/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> It doesn't seem the mail is getting even that far. Do you have MTA =
> >> 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py? Have you added path/to/data/aliases to
> >> Postfix's alias_maps? See
> >> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.
> >
> >
> >
> >MTA='Postfix' is in the mm_cfg.py file. I am not integrating Mailman and
> >Postfix so that aliases are generated. I am utilizing /etc/aliases for
> the
> >aliases file.
>
>
> So have you copied mailman's aliases from data/aliases to /etc/aliases
> and run Postfix's postalias command?
>
>
> >Note that Postfix will deliver to Mailman with owner:group of the
> >> aliases.db file it finds the aliases in. This is normally group
> >> 'mailman' for data/aliases*, so for Postfix, you normally want
> >> --with-mail-gid=mailman which is included in the default for configure.
>
>
> Since you're putting aliases in /etc/aliases, Postfix will invoke the
> wrapper with the owner:group of /etc/aliases.db. This is the group
> that should be used as --with-mail-gid for configure.
>
>
> >> What is in the Postfix logs for mail to Mailman?
> >
> >
> >There is nothing in the Postfix logs referring to Mailman, except if I do
> >the subscribe from the Admin interface.
>
>
> So there is nothing in the Postfix log at all for the message you send
> to listname-subscribe at ...?
>
> Maybe it's being routed to some other MTA on some other server.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From steele at agora-net.com  Tue Jun 27 18:04:41 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:04:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
Message-ID: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>

List,

I have a peculiar problem.  An existing list I'm trying to repair has 
problems accessing the archives.  The archives link changes the protocol 
to http instead of keeping the https protocol the rest of Mailman uses.  
I have the following alias and directory stanza in my Apache config file:

Alias /pipermail/ /path/to/archives/public/

<Directory "/path/to/archives/public">
   Options +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

Now, I can bring up the actual listinfo page, but clicking on the 
archives link will change protocols.  I've tried using 'bin/withlist -l 
-r fix_url listname' and bin/check_perms to try and identify/resolve the 
problem, but it still persists.  Any pointers would be appreciated...thanks!

Best,
Ryan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 27 18:20:36 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:20:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>
References: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
> I have a peculiar problem.  An existing list I'm trying to repair has
> problems accessing the archives.  The archives link changes the protocol
> to http instead of keeping the https protocol the rest of Mailman uses.
> I have the following alias and directory stanza in my Apache config file:

Have you followed the steps outlined in FAQ 4.27
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>
?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Jun 27 18:30:10 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:30:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>
	<6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060627163010.GL10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 6/27/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
>> I have a peculiar problem.  An existing list I'm trying to repair has
>> problems accessing the archives.  The archives link changes the protocol
>> to http instead of keeping the https protocol the rest of Mailman uses.
>> I have the following alias and directory stanza in my Apache config file:
> 
> Have you followed the steps outlined in FAQ 4.27
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>
> ?

Don't you also need to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as well?

Something like this is what I've done in the past, but it's been
a while since I  setup an installation using SSL that had archiving
enabled.

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better
lawyer.
    -- Robert Frost

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From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Jun 27 18:56:38 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:56:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to Verizon users.
In-Reply-To: <200606271539.k5RFdxNn015791@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200606271539.k5RFdxNn015791@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0606271146310.9272@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Barry Finkel wrote:

> User for Mailman mail list wrote:
> >>
> >>Banging my head against the wall ( and it hurts..)
> >>
> >>On the different list from our Mailman mail list server, the mail goes out
> >>fine except for users with a "verizon.net" address. Here is a typical
> >>syslog entry:
> >>
> >>Jun 26 12:57:29 secure sm-mta[13001]: k5QJv2Gt012804:
> >>to=<auser at verizon.net>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176103,
> >>relay=relay.verizon.net. [206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
>
> I have had problems in the past sending mail to verizon.net.  I could
> not even send mail to postmaster at verizon.net.  I believe that Verizon
> has some anti-spam filter that does not accept a lot of legitimate mail.

I've seen the same thing with verizon.net. But even more strange, I'll
have messages go through to some verizon.net users while the same message
will not go through for other users (when it happens, it seems to always
be the same users where it's not going through). Which makes me think some
users turn on some optional spam checking or similar.

In addition, I never see a permanent rejection (5xx), just transient
(4xx). Meaning the silly message sticks around for days until it times
out. Unfortunately, the list where this happens is in its inactive time of
the year and all the relevant logs have aged off the system so I can't say
if the specific error I'm getting is the same "Service Unavailable" in the
OP's log extract.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com


From steele at agora-net.com  Tue Jun 27 18:56:54 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:56:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>
	<6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44A16356.5040101@agora-net.com>

Patrick/List,

I think the person who administered the box before me installed Mailman 
incorrectly.  But, complaining about their incompetency isn't gonna fix 
my problem.  The fix_url script removes it from the listinfo page.  I 
had to manually reset the proper address....a result of the 
aforementioned person's installation snafu.  I can't see having 
RedirectPermanent being a good solution...many servers limit the number 
of redirections, and I know that Firefox and IE will suffer from 
redirection limits as well...there is extensive documentation of this 
resulting from a simple Google search.

Also, someone suggested:

Don't you also need to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as well?

Something like this is what I've done in the past, but it's been
a while since I  setup an installation using SSL that had archiving
enabled.

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'


I would hope I wouldn't have to do that for every list.  I think I'm 
just going to copy the Alias line for pipermail to the non-https 
virtualhost container.  If there are any other good suggestions, let me 
know. 

Thanks,
Ryan


Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 6/27/06, Ryan Steele <steele at agora-net.com> wrote:
>> I have a peculiar problem.  An existing list I'm trying to repair has
>> problems accessing the archives.  The archives link changes the protocol
>> to http instead of keeping the https protocol the rest of Mailman uses.
>> I have the following alias and directory stanza in my Apache config 
>> file:
>
> Have you followed the steps outlined in FAQ 4.27
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>
> ?
>



From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Jun 27 19:35:26 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:35:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <44A16356.5040101@agora-net.com>
References: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>
	<6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<44A16356.5040101@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <20060627173525.GM10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ryan Steele wrote:
> I can't see having RedirectPermanent being a good solution...many
> servers limit the number of redirections, and I know that Firefox
> and IE will suffer from redirection limits as well...there is
> extensive documentation of this resulting from a simple Google
> search.

If RedirectPermanent broke things horribly, it likely wouldn't be in
the FAQ.  It should only cause one redirection, from http to https.

> Also, someone suggested:
> 
> Don't you also need to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as well?
> 
> Something like this is what I've done in the past, but it's been a
> while since I setup an installation using SSL that had archiving
> enabled.
> 
> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
> 
> 
> I would hope I wouldn't have to do that for every list.

This is a setting that goes into mm_cfg.py, so it's done once for the
whole mailman installation.  You would then regenerate the archives
for each list so that any links are correct in the archives.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Remember the first rule of gunfighting..."Have a gun."
    -- Jeff Cooper, 1991

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From steele at agora-net.com  Tue Jun 27 19:48:36 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:48:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <20060627173525.GM10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>	<6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>	<44A16356.5040101@agora-net.com>
	<20060627173525.GM10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <44A16F74.1050807@agora-net.com>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> I can't see having RedirectPermanent being a good solution...many
>> servers limit the number of redirections, and I know that Firefox
>> and IE will suffer from redirection limits as well...there is
>> extensive documentation of this resulting from a simple Google
>> search.
>>     
>
> If RedirectPermanent broke things horribly, it likely wouldn't be in
> the FAQ.  It should only cause one redirection, from http to https.
>
>   
It doesn't break things horribly.  But, it can cause problems if it 
causes a redirection limits issue, which it frequently does.  
http://jessey.net/archive/2005/04/24/redirection-limit-exceeded/ is just 
an example of how it can cause issues.  I'd prefer not to run into them.
>> Also, someone suggested:
>>
>> Don't you also need to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as well?
>>
>> Something like this is what I've done in the past, but it's been a
>> while since I setup an installation using SSL that had archiving
>> enabled.
>>
>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
>>
>>
>> I would hope I wouldn't have to do that for every list.
>>     
>
> This is a setting that goes into mm_cfg.py, so it's done once for the
> whole mailman installation.  You would then regenerate the archives
> for each list so that any links are correct in the archives.
>
>   
Ah, yes, I read your reply wrong.  the (hostname) and (listname) threw 
me.  I was looking more for a 'https://%s/pipermail/%listsymbol' 
response, though I'm not sure what symbol would go into representing the 
listnames.

Thanks for the input though, I appreciate it!

Best,
Ryan




From raph at mankin.org.uk  Tue Jun 27 19:52:43 2006
From: raph at mankin.org.uk (Raphael Mankin)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:52:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editable messages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1151357797.8697.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1151357797.8697.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <1151430763.15218.4.camel@mailgate.mankin.org.uk>

Is there an ETA yet for editable messages? I see it is on the TO DO
list, and it is an absolute requirement for one of my lists. I would
like to be able to ditch majordomo.


From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Jun 27 21:37:24 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:37:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <44A16F74.1050807@agora-net.com>
References: <44A15719.4010203@agora-net.com>
	<6fbe3da00606270920t1df6d6der8ec1ae8a5628c1fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<44A16356.5040101@agora-net.com>
	<20060627173525.GM10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<44A16F74.1050807@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <20060627193724.GP10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ryan Steele wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
[...]
>> If RedirectPermanent broke things horribly, it likely wouldn't be
>> in the FAQ.  It should only cause one redirection, from http to
>> https.
>>
>>   
> It doesn't break things horribly.  But, it can cause problems if it
> causes a redirection limits issue, which it frequently does.
> http://jessey.net/archive/2005/04/24/redirection-limit-exceeded/ is
> just an example of how it can cause issues.  I'd prefer not to run
> into them.

With your Apache properly configured, you won't run into them. :)

I'd certainly want to redirect users and admins to the SSL version of
the mailman pages so they aren't logging in via an unencrypted
channel.

>>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
[...]
> Ah, yes, I read your reply wrong.  the (hostname) and (listname) threw 
> me.  I was looking more for a 'https://%s/pipermail/%listsymbol' 
> response, though I'm not sure what symbol would go into representing the 
> listnames.

The value used above would be exactly what you'd use.  In python, the
%(hostname)s and %(listname)s will be expanded to the values of
hostname and listname.  Check out the current value for
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in Defaults.py.  Just copy it to mm_cfg.py and
change http to https.  Then regenerate your archives using the arch
command in ~mailman/bin/.

You said previously that fix_url.py didn't work for you.  There may be
some other things in mm_cfg.py that need to be set correctly for that
to do what you want.  If you post more details about what you have set
for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and any other hosts you've added via
add_virtualhost it might help someone here get you pointed in the
right direction.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insignificant
premises
    -- Samuel Butler

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From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Tue Jun 27 21:55:36 2006
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:55:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probems sending from gmail
Message-ID: <web-3049026@commpartners.com>

  
We have noticed a problems with gmail accounts.  Someone 
posting  a message from a gmail account to a list will not 
get a copy of their message back.  The message goes to the 
list fine and even other gmail accounts will get the 
message.  Its the sender on gmail that will not get a copy 
of their message.

We have examined the smtp logs and the message is going 
back to gmail and gmail says it got it OK during the smtp 
dialog.  But the message never makes it into the Inbox or 
even the spam box.

Any known problems with gmail and Mailman?  Using Mailman 
2.1.7 on CentOS-4.3.

--Karl


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 22:56:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:56:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?
In-Reply-To: <20060627193724.GP10643@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062713563102502ebe9d79@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>The value used above would be exactly what you'd use.  In python, the
>%(hostname)s and %(listname)s will be expanded to the values of
>hostname and listname.  Check out the current value for
>PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in Defaults.py.  Just copy it to mm_cfg.py and
>change http to https.  Then regenerate your archives using the arch
>command in ~mailman/bin/.


Actually, you don't need to regenerate archives after changing
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. All the 'archive' links in the archive are
relative. The only time you need to regenerate the archives in order
to fix links is when the list's web_page_url changes (i.e. you've made
changes to DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN or the 'url host' and run fix_url), and
this is only for the links back to the listinfo page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 27 22:58:20 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:58:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probems sending from gmail
In-Reply-To: <web-3049026@commpartners.com>
References: <web-3049026@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606271358u79e91d75ifc7579970b9b734d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/06, Karl Zander <kwz-mm at commpartners.com> wrote:
>
> We have noticed a problems with gmail accounts.  Someone
> posting  a message from a gmail account to a list will not
> get a copy of their message back.  The message goes to the
> list fine and even other gmail accounts will get the
> message.  Its the sender on gmail that will not get a copy
> of their message.
>
> We have examined the smtp logs and the message is going
> back to gmail and gmail says it got it OK during the smtp
> dialog.  But the message never makes it into the Inbox or
> even the spam box.
>
> Any known problems with gmail and Mailman?  Using Mailman
> 2.1.7 on CentOS-4.3.

Is this all users? Might the user in question have filters that are
dropping the mail? Do they have 'metoo' (?) turned on? Are you *sure*
that the sends to gmail are the mail in question to the user in
question?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 23:04:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:04:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install/email confirmation not working
In-Reply-To: <27572d930606270851l4ce590fdj6595fec701456436@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062714043902812ebe9da0@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>There is nothing in the logs.
>
>It turns out that Postfix is not accepting any mail from outside our domain.


Postfix is not accepting the mail? I think if that were the case, there
would be log messages. I think it is more likley that DNS MX records
are causing mail from outside your domain to be routed to a different
server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 23:15:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probems sending from gmail
In-Reply-To: <web-3049026@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062714150602032ebe9d31@msapiro>

Karl Zander wrote:
>  
>We have noticed a problems with gmail accounts.  Someone 
>posting  a message from a gmail account to a list will not 
>get a copy of their message back.  The message goes to the 
>list fine and even other gmail accounts will get the 
>message.  Its the sender on gmail that will not get a copy 
>of their message.
>
>We have examined the smtp logs and the message is going 
>back to gmail and gmail says it got it OK during the smtp 
>dialog.  But the message never makes it into the Inbox or 
>even the spam box.
>
>Any known problems with gmail and Mailman?  Using Mailman 
>2.1.7 on CentOS-4.3.


This is not a gmail/Mailman issue. It is a gmail feature. Gmail
recognizes it already has a copy of that message (same message ID i
think) in the conversation and doesn't think you need to see it again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 27 23:22:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:22:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive can't display gb2312 encode mail
In-Reply-To: <40b6d52e0606270118x17801158ia2c0d0133de3440b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006062714220109842ebea039@msapiro>

huang mingyou wrote:

>        I use the mailman 2.1.8 , and the mail archive is pipermail
>0.09,OS is Debian sarge,python Verizon is 2.3 .
>        When I look the mail list archive in web,the gb2312 mail can't
>display correct,but the utf-8 can display . what's wrong,and how to
>resolve it.  please help me!


Is this a case of the web server adding its own Content-Type: header
with an incompatible character set. The installation manual suggests
the following for Apache (your path may be dif